Toyota GT86/Subaru BRZ: overrated or underrated gem?
Discussion
Has anyone had any long-term experience of one of these (or the BRZ)? How did you find it and were the backs seats at all useable for children/adults? I keep reading in reviews that they're underpowered, unrefined and quite firm but have a sublime chassis, although the stats are startlingly similar to 3 cars that I seriously contemplated buying around 15 years ago, EP3 Civic Type-R, DC2 Integra Type-R and Celica 190. I've never understood why the GT86 is a second slower to 60 than the EP3 though (gearing?). Ultimately, prohibitively high insurance knocked the Hondas on the head and I decided to try something with RWD and a soft-top over the Celica, so went with an NB MX5.
I appreciate that I'm about 7 years late for the party but I've always liked the look of these and been dying to have a go in one, so on Friday I was off work and running some errands with my 4 year old son and driving past my local Toyota dealership, I saw that they had a silver GT86 on the lot and impulsively decided to drop in and see if I could take one for a test drive and check out the rear seats for putting my kid's seats in. In all fairness, I've been thinking about upgrading my 2009 MINI Cooper for a while now, so although this one was their demonstrator and I would probably be more interested in one a few years old, I felt that it was a legitimate enquiry. The seat installation was surprisingly easy (probably easier than in my MINI) and with the passenger seat slid forward a little bit, he was happy enough back there. The boot isn't that deep but is bigger than the one in my MINI and the presence of a spare wheel was welcome (the MINI doesn't have one) and although this hasn't proven to be an issue in the 3 years that I've owned it, I've always been a little nervous about it, especially since I hit a pothole in a Fiesta hire car a few months ago, puncturing the tyre and being left stranded, as I didn't have a spare wheel. I did try and get in the back myself behind where I would have the driver's seat (I'm only 5'8") but had to abort the attempt because the front seat is so low and I didn't have anywhere to put my feet. The rear seats looked like they might be fairly comfortable if I could find a way in to them though!
I thought that the driving position and the front seats were absolutely spot-on and although the interior wasn't particularly plush, it felt very driver-centric and like my old 2004 WRX, I felt that I had everything that I really needed but nothing superfluous. I don't really gain any features over my MINI other than a spare wheel and a backup camera (although the loss of a CD player is regrettable) but that's quite refreshing really, as I'm a bit weary of the focus on tech over the driving experience in modern cars. After all, I'm after an involving and enjoyable driving experience rather than a mobile iPad.
The salesman was fairly laid back and let me take it out by myself for 40 minutes and although I didn't manage to get far out of town, I did get to experience it on a variety of roads. It felt instantly right to me. The handling, steering, balance and body control were sublime and compared to my MINI it felt lively enough. I agree that it's not as fast as it looks, I managed to pin it a couple of times and felt like I was going faster than I actually was but that's good in a way, as my WRX was always deceptively fast and although the acceleration was quite addictive, it often felt that it was only getting into its stride at 60mph and I probably ventured into 3 figures in it more than I'd care to admit. So, not as fast as the quickest car that I have owned (WRX) but easily as quick or quicker than other "quick" cars that I have owned, 205 GTi, E30 325i, Corrado VR6 etc. Have we all just got used to turbo motors that give us easy torque at low rpms rather than having to work the engine for the performance? I didn't really have an issue with the ride and refinement. Yes, the engine is a little bit "vocal" but compared to the MINI it was fairly quiet at a cruise and the ride was much less crashy.
Reservations about the back seat aside then, I was quite smitten with the GT86 and even managed to average 30mpg on my test drive and I was driving it fairly hard, high 30s ought to be achievable on a daily basis. It would certainly work for 90% of my use and has a bigger boot than the MINI for the supermarket shop but slightly less space for rear passengers. Alternative is a FWD hot hatch, with the mk7 Fiesta ST probably being my favoured choice (haven't tried one yet). It would likely annihilate the GT86 in a straight line and have more space in the rear seat but at the end of the day, it's a FWD hatchback, so may not feel as "special" as a RWD sports coupe with an LSD. If I wanted to stick with RWD but a roomier back seat then I could look at something like a 6-pot 3-Series but it's a bit less sporty and a bigger car.
So, 7 years on, what's the verdict on the GT86/BRZ? Is it overrated, as other cars offer more performance, practicality and fun for the money or is it an underrated gem?
I appreciate that I'm about 7 years late for the party but I've always liked the look of these and been dying to have a go in one, so on Friday I was off work and running some errands with my 4 year old son and driving past my local Toyota dealership, I saw that they had a silver GT86 on the lot and impulsively decided to drop in and see if I could take one for a test drive and check out the rear seats for putting my kid's seats in. In all fairness, I've been thinking about upgrading my 2009 MINI Cooper for a while now, so although this one was their demonstrator and I would probably be more interested in one a few years old, I felt that it was a legitimate enquiry. The seat installation was surprisingly easy (probably easier than in my MINI) and with the passenger seat slid forward a little bit, he was happy enough back there. The boot isn't that deep but is bigger than the one in my MINI and the presence of a spare wheel was welcome (the MINI doesn't have one) and although this hasn't proven to be an issue in the 3 years that I've owned it, I've always been a little nervous about it, especially since I hit a pothole in a Fiesta hire car a few months ago, puncturing the tyre and being left stranded, as I didn't have a spare wheel. I did try and get in the back myself behind where I would have the driver's seat (I'm only 5'8") but had to abort the attempt because the front seat is so low and I didn't have anywhere to put my feet. The rear seats looked like they might be fairly comfortable if I could find a way in to them though!
I thought that the driving position and the front seats were absolutely spot-on and although the interior wasn't particularly plush, it felt very driver-centric and like my old 2004 WRX, I felt that I had everything that I really needed but nothing superfluous. I don't really gain any features over my MINI other than a spare wheel and a backup camera (although the loss of a CD player is regrettable) but that's quite refreshing really, as I'm a bit weary of the focus on tech over the driving experience in modern cars. After all, I'm after an involving and enjoyable driving experience rather than a mobile iPad.
The salesman was fairly laid back and let me take it out by myself for 40 minutes and although I didn't manage to get far out of town, I did get to experience it on a variety of roads. It felt instantly right to me. The handling, steering, balance and body control were sublime and compared to my MINI it felt lively enough. I agree that it's not as fast as it looks, I managed to pin it a couple of times and felt like I was going faster than I actually was but that's good in a way, as my WRX was always deceptively fast and although the acceleration was quite addictive, it often felt that it was only getting into its stride at 60mph and I probably ventured into 3 figures in it more than I'd care to admit. So, not as fast as the quickest car that I have owned (WRX) but easily as quick or quicker than other "quick" cars that I have owned, 205 GTi, E30 325i, Corrado VR6 etc. Have we all just got used to turbo motors that give us easy torque at low rpms rather than having to work the engine for the performance? I didn't really have an issue with the ride and refinement. Yes, the engine is a little bit "vocal" but compared to the MINI it was fairly quiet at a cruise and the ride was much less crashy.
Reservations about the back seat aside then, I was quite smitten with the GT86 and even managed to average 30mpg on my test drive and I was driving it fairly hard, high 30s ought to be achievable on a daily basis. It would certainly work for 90% of my use and has a bigger boot than the MINI for the supermarket shop but slightly less space for rear passengers. Alternative is a FWD hot hatch, with the mk7 Fiesta ST probably being my favoured choice (haven't tried one yet). It would likely annihilate the GT86 in a straight line and have more space in the rear seat but at the end of the day, it's a FWD hatchback, so may not feel as "special" as a RWD sports coupe with an LSD. If I wanted to stick with RWD but a roomier back seat then I could look at something like a 6-pot 3-Series but it's a bit less sporty and a bigger car.
So, 7 years on, what's the verdict on the GT86/BRZ? Is it overrated, as other cars offer more performance, practicality and fun for the money or is it an underrated gem?
white_goodman said:
How did you find it and were the backs seats at all useable for children/adults?
I'm 6 foot 2 and I couldn't get the driver's seat far back enough to be comfortable (I'm not skinny though so that probably doesn't help as I tend to have to sit a click further back than I did when I was slim)Regarding the rear seats, unless you're short, you've got no hope of getting anyone with legs behind you, unless they're young and their legs don't come forward of the seat base.
I had me and two mates in mine, one similar height to me and one who is a lot shorter, the tall one in the front had to sit at an angle with his legs wedged against the dash and the short one in the back had no room either.
It's a very small car inside.
The engine isn't awful, it's got enough power it's just not delivered in the best fashion, apparently this can be sorted with a map and some bolt ons but there's a big hole in the mid range which makes it hard to live with, in my opinion. With a better power curve, it would be absolutely fine.
The stereo is pants, it doesn't go loud enough, you can hear music but on the motorway you struggle with any talking, easily remedied though I suspect.
I had mine 4 months, couldn't gel with it overall. Some bits were great, some not and the 'not' let it down for me enough to shift it on for a big loss.
Drive one, if you can, drive a few and get as many miles behind you before you decide whether to go for it or not. I test drove mine for about 10 minutes and that wasn't enough time to get an idea of what it would be like to live with.
Edited by Robmarriott on Tuesday 11th June 17:21
Interesting I keep looking at these as one of the cars that's coming down to meet one of my Mk4 Supra's going up.
My thinking is it may be the perfect Yin to the Supra's Yang? Supra, heavy(er), auto, license losing fast - GT86, light nimble, fun at below/around the limit?
25 year old (modern classic?) with some inevitable aging issues despite the great build quality vs 4-5 year old low mileage GT86?
My thinking is it may be the perfect Yin to the Supra's Yang? Supra, heavy(er), auto, license losing fast - GT86, light nimble, fun at below/around the limit?
25 year old (modern classic?) with some inevitable aging issues despite the great build quality vs 4-5 year old low mileage GT86?
I was going to get one (Subaru) as it ticked lots of boxes. Until i drove it. Suddenly my wife's company 123 diesel felt really muscular by comparison and for me the 2.0 Japanese pair simply look way quicker than they actually are.
The power band is boring and the peak output is 50 bhp shy of where it needs to be. A magazine tested a modified Toyota with an extra 70 bhp and said it was the car it should have been to start with. Ticked every box you could wish for, pretty much.
The power band is boring and the peak output is 50 bhp shy of where it needs to be. A magazine tested a modified Toyota with an extra 70 bhp and said it was the car it should have been to start with. Ticked every box you could wish for, pretty much.
I can't say you're late to the party, OP. 😀 I'd been watching these for years too and only bought a used BRZ a couple of months ago. It's a scratch I needed to itch.
It depends what your motoring needs are. Mine's a 2nd car, and as much fun as it is, I'm glad I didn't trade in my E92 320D. Sorry, PH 😳. Commuting duties are shared between the 2.
If you value old-school driving dynamics and can live without a list of modern electric widgets, there's much to like about these. It's certainly worthwhile living with one before this sort of engaging driving experience disappears.
It depends what your motoring needs are. Mine's a 2nd car, and as much fun as it is, I'm glad I didn't trade in my E92 320D. Sorry, PH 😳. Commuting duties are shared between the 2.
If you value old-school driving dynamics and can live without a list of modern electric widgets, there's much to like about these. It's certainly worthwhile living with one before this sort of engaging driving experience disappears.
My Son has just bought an Aero edition with massive wing and body kit as standard. It looks mad and all his mates are very impressed. As a 20 year old it doesn’t just tick all the boxes, it scribbles all over the form and eats it.
He’s more than happy with his and to be fair, it is a lovely car to drive.
He’s more than happy with his and to be fair, it is a lovely car to drive.
CABC said:
Audi TT a lot faster.
Cayman cost buttons to run.
why would you?
Audi TT is basically a Golf and no more practical than the GT86, I'd just get a Golf GTI and have the extra practicality too. Cayman absolutely but I do want rear seats for my 7 and 5 year old. Probably only looking at spending 10-12k too...Cayman cost buttons to run.
why would you?
Owned one for a couple of years and really liked it. 
However the reason for sale was the back seat became too small as my children grew, by 6 years old my son was struggling to fit behind me, as my daughter sat on other rear seat (which was better as could run passenger front seat further forward) . That is really the only negative otherwise they are great.
However the reason for sale was the back seat became too small as my children grew, by 6 years old my son was struggling to fit behind me, as my daughter sat on other rear seat (which was better as could run passenger front seat further forward) . That is really the only negative otherwise they are great.
nickfrog said:
I ran a GT86 for a year and it was brilliant on tighter tracks on proper tyres but as a road car, I couldn't live with the engine, it's so bad in so many ways. And I don't normally care about the engine much.
Good car, crap engine, is what you always here about these cars.Deep Thought said:
Grindle said:
Japanese pair simply look way quicker than they actually are.
The power band is boring and the peak output is 50 bhp shy of where it needs to be.
The power band is boring and the peak output is 50 bhp shy of where it needs to be.
Wholly my view on them. Shame really.
Look at me! Coupe looks, then when you do look theres not really much happening.
I've always been in the camp that if a car looks fast then it should at least go fast.
mikey P 500 said:
Owned one for a couple of years and really liked it.
However the reason for sale was the back seat became too small as my children grew, by 6 years old my son was struggling to fit behind me, as my daughter sat on other rear seat (which was better as could run passenger front seat further forward) . That is really the only negative otherwise they are great.
Really like the look of that for sure. Very smart! However the reason for sale was the back seat became too small as my children grew, by 6 years old my son was struggling to fit behind me, as my daughter sat on other rear seat (which was better as could run passenger front seat further forward) . That is really the only negative otherwise they are great.
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