I had an IS300h for a weekend - here's what I thought
Discussion
After reading tons of reviews, watching loads of youtube videos and asking questions Here - I currently have an IS300h for a weekend long test drive.
The short version is I think I'm probably going to get one - but here's what I think. I read this back after I wrote it, and looks like I'm really labouring on the bad points - but I was really pretty impressed.
Reference point: I'll be trading in a 2.0T Audi avant (2006) with nearly no interesting gadgets
The good
The bad and the unexpected..
Thought I'd give this it's section as it's the most often called 'bad' thing about the car. Honestly - it's not great. Not terrible, but not great. I can't work out if it's the box limiting the torque or the engine just isn't that powerful, but what happens if you nail it (say an overtake) is that the revs go right up, but the car doesn't accelerate with any great urgency. I wouldn't call it slow, but its not going to be an overtaking machine.
Not sure that the paddles do a whole lot - they do fiddle with the revs, but I think they are a bit of a gimmick.
The short version is I think I'm probably going to get one - but here's what I think. I read this back after I wrote it, and looks like I'm really labouring on the bad points - but I was really pretty impressed.
Reference point: I'll be trading in a 2.0T Audi avant (2006) with nearly no interesting gadgets
The good
- Its really well screwed together - all of the doors 'thunk' when you shut them and the plastics are nice and have a really quality feel to them
- Fantastic round town.... its pretty nippy off the line
- Quite impressed with the handling - I expected it to be quite a lot more wallowy, but its pretty taught and doesn't roll much in the corners.
- I'd say it's 'wafty' fast - my Audi gives you a thump in the back from the turbo, the Lexus doesn't - it's very smooth - you definitely get to 60/70 mph pretty quickly, but it's not much of an 'event'.
- I love the technology - bluetooth/nav etc - I do get this probably isn't that much different from any other car with this, but I'm coming from a car with virtually no gadgets, so easy to impress I guess.
- I quite liked the regen effect on the braking - takes a bit of getting used to - as soon as you stroke the brake pedal, you get a much stronger braking force than you'd expect. Perhaps not everyone's cup of tea, but I liked it.
The bad and the unexpected..
- The drivetrain takes a bit of getting used to. Stuff like pulling up to a roundabout, on the brakes, you realise you are braking a little too hard and lift off a bit... it gives you a bit of a shove forward, which can be a bit unexpected.
- Going quickly from brake to throttle... e.g from standstill at the lights, although it's quick once it does start moving, it's a little hesitant for the first 3/4 of a second or so.. doesn't sound much, and I reckon you can probably adapt your style to take it into account, but can be a little disconcerting...
- Engine doesn't really sound like it likes being revved. I'd say it's best at about 7 tenths acceleration; push it harder and it doesn't really want to do it, and you don't really get a lot more out of the car. it has a funny little dial you can twiddle to control the about of noise that's piped into the cabin from the engine - this is not an engine who's noise you really wanting to be listening to at full chat. An M3 CSL noise it is not.
- I can imagine that the BMW 330e with it's turbo'd 2.0 is probably much better to drive - but then it's nearly double a month on the PCP deal.
Thought I'd give this it's section as it's the most often called 'bad' thing about the car. Honestly - it's not great. Not terrible, but not great. I can't work out if it's the box limiting the torque or the engine just isn't that powerful, but what happens if you nail it (say an overtake) is that the revs go right up, but the car doesn't accelerate with any great urgency. I wouldn't call it slow, but its not going to be an overtaking machine.
Not sure that the paddles do a whole lot - they do fiddle with the revs, but I think they are a bit of a gimmick.
I'm sure you enjoy the IS300H, we've had ours now for coming up to 2 years. The IS300H is the main reason I becomes interested in full battery EVs. It's going to be the last combustion car we'll buy in the family, but for now it'll stay until 300 mile range EVs become a bit cheaper than the £90K Tesla want for 100kWh Model S.
Does the drive selector have different modes on it? My Jazz Hybrid feels very different in Eco, D and S modes. Eco is my usual preference, but it has an elastic sensation when asking for full power, and even then it restrains the grunt for a while. The engine dials up the revs to make peak power which seems to feed in slowly. In 'S' it'll give you the full whack all at once, which is surprisingly spritely but instantly taps the battery reserves. I suspect the IS300h will be set up similarly, geared towards economy unless you ask otherwise.
gangzoom said:
I'm sure you enjoy the IS300H, we've had ours now for coming up to 2 years. The IS300H is the main reason I becomes interested in full battery EVs. It's going to be the last combustion car we'll buy in the family, but for now it'll stay until 300 mile range EVs become a bit cheaper than the £90K Tesla want for 100kWh Model S.
I have had mine since October Loyly said:
Does the drive selector have different modes on it? My Jazz Hybrid feels very different in Eco, D and S modes. Eco is my usual preference, but it has an elastic sensation when asking for full power, and even then it restrains the grunt for a while. The engine dials up the revs to make peak power which seems to feed in slowly. In 'S' it'll give you the full whack all at once, which is surprisingly spritely but instantly taps the battery reserves. I suspect the IS300h will be set up similarly, geared towards economy unless you ask otherwise.
Eco, Normal, SportI wrote my original post half way through the test drive, and in the end I couldn't do it.
The straw that broke the camels back was the saloon format. I had some stuff to do on the weekend, which involved picking up some boxes and stuff - I can't remember the last time I had to worry about fitting anything into the Audi (A4 Avant).. and it was well annoying having to try and tessellate everything into the is300h. I get that this isn't really the lexus's fault - would have been the case with any saloon. I could have gotten the Rx or the Nx if I loved the lexus 'thing' - but I didn't, because of the reasons below.
If you are considering it - here's my verdict.
- the gearbox is really annoying, you'd really have to think about overtaking unless you have tons of room. In only a weekend it went from 'meh' to 'thats super annoying'
- The engine is astonishingly underwhelming (its 2.5L after all.. ). Sounds droney, and laborious at high revs.
- The economy isn't brilliant for a hybrid. I got 42mpg on my weekend. I'd forgive the lacklustre performance for 90/100mpg, but not for 42...
- The engine is very quick to kick in, which I think really reduces the benefit of the hybrid system. Moderate acceleration, or going above about 18mph will see the engine come in, even if you press the EV button.
I think it would be a great car if you lived in the middle of a big city (i.e tons and tons of really stop/start traffic), wanted a whiff of luxury and didn't care about driving that much.
I think if they put a turbo on the engine, and a proper DSG or torque converter ZF box, it would be a world better, I could imagine that the BMW 330e would be a great machine.
Its a beautifully screwed together car, I just would like to grab mr lexus and shout
"why didn't you put a turbo on it, fit a proper gearbox and make it fun to drive.. you'd have knocked it out of the park then!"
.. I'm now driving around in a golf R estate - yes, a very different car, but I think having the lexus for the weekend made me realise what I like.
The straw that broke the camels back was the saloon format. I had some stuff to do on the weekend, which involved picking up some boxes and stuff - I can't remember the last time I had to worry about fitting anything into the Audi (A4 Avant).. and it was well annoying having to try and tessellate everything into the is300h. I get that this isn't really the lexus's fault - would have been the case with any saloon. I could have gotten the Rx or the Nx if I loved the lexus 'thing' - but I didn't, because of the reasons below.
If you are considering it - here's my verdict.
- the gearbox is really annoying, you'd really have to think about overtaking unless you have tons of room. In only a weekend it went from 'meh' to 'thats super annoying'
- The engine is astonishingly underwhelming (its 2.5L after all.. ). Sounds droney, and laborious at high revs.
- The economy isn't brilliant for a hybrid. I got 42mpg on my weekend. I'd forgive the lacklustre performance for 90/100mpg, but not for 42...
- The engine is very quick to kick in, which I think really reduces the benefit of the hybrid system. Moderate acceleration, or going above about 18mph will see the engine come in, even if you press the EV button.
I think it would be a great car if you lived in the middle of a big city (i.e tons and tons of really stop/start traffic), wanted a whiff of luxury and didn't care about driving that much.
I think if they put a turbo on the engine, and a proper DSG or torque converter ZF box, it would be a world better, I could imagine that the BMW 330e would be a great machine.
Its a beautifully screwed together car, I just would like to grab mr lexus and shout
"why didn't you put a turbo on it, fit a proper gearbox and make it fun to drive.. you'd have knocked it out of the park then!"
.. I'm now driving around in a golf R estate - yes, a very different car, but I think having the lexus for the weekend made me realise what I like.
I have an Auris hybrid, which is essentially a Prius in an estate body.
The gearbox is different but you get used to it.
I find the performance fine, better than a 2.0 diesel of around 150 Bhp most of the time in terms of both performance and economy.
It will get off the line far faster than a diesel unless you are holding the diesel at 3000 rpm and dump the clutch.
Overtakes are fine too, while it's not in the same league as my bike (neither is a Golf R), I safely carried out a 4 car overtake on a single carriageway last weekend.
The performance doesn't feel as quick as it actually is, it's very linear so you get virtually all of the power at any road speed, but it then doesn't ramp up like it does in a normal car so it doesn't feel like it's accelerating.
It is though, and will do a 40-90 overtake easily enough.
I would expect an IS300 to be much quicker. It's still not going to be in the same league as a Golf R and to be frank, it's not really fair to try and compare the two.
The gearbox is different but you get used to it.
I find the performance fine, better than a 2.0 diesel of around 150 Bhp most of the time in terms of both performance and economy.
It will get off the line far faster than a diesel unless you are holding the diesel at 3000 rpm and dump the clutch.
Overtakes are fine too, while it's not in the same league as my bike (neither is a Golf R), I safely carried out a 4 car overtake on a single carriageway last weekend.
The performance doesn't feel as quick as it actually is, it's very linear so you get virtually all of the power at any road speed, but it then doesn't ramp up like it does in a normal car so it doesn't feel like it's accelerating.
It is though, and will do a 40-90 overtake easily enough.
I would expect an IS300 to be much quicker. It's still not going to be in the same league as a Golf R and to be frank, it's not really fair to try and compare the two.
A CVT gearbox takes more than a weekend to get used to. Once you have got your head round it, you can make swift and easy progress everywhere, including overtakes. The way to get the best economy out of a hybrid is to get up to your cruising speed quickly using the "power" button, then cruise. Also, make sure the battery is topped up by braking smoothly and steadily, so you can harvest the energy when you want it. A gentle right foot from standstill will keep the car running on battery for longer, and save tons of fuel, though a foot mashed into the carpet will fire up the engine immediately. It takes some getting used to, but once you have sussed it out, the whole drivetrain makes a lot of sense, and you start to realise how wasteful a normal car is. The one great thing, is how quiet hybrids are, it only when you jump into a diesel car, you realise what noisy , rattly, horrible things they are, in comparison.
yup - sorry - I didn't mean to compare the lexus to the golf - they are very different,
I'm not really sure about the 'getting used' to the CVT box though - most test drives are about half an hour. I had the car for the whole weekend and my view of it just got worse and worse. I definitely think its not slow and its not going to match a bi-turbo 'thurmp' in the back, but it didn't feel like a 220BHP car. If I needed longer than a weekend to get used to the box, I'd be taking quite a punt on buying the car in the hope I'd get used it.
... I think really... I'm just a bit gutted that the car could have been so much more. Beautifully engineered, and the service at the dealership was A1 - but I just wasn't convinced by the drivetrain. I think if I lived in a big city and spent more time at very low speed crawling around in traffic, it would have made more sense and I'd have invested the time to learn it.
I read all the reviews, and watched all the youtube videos before I did the test drive - they nearly all said the CVT box was the weak spot - I really wanted them to be wrong... but I don't think they were in the end. Of course... all my humble opinion...
I'm not really sure about the 'getting used' to the CVT box though - most test drives are about half an hour. I had the car for the whole weekend and my view of it just got worse and worse. I definitely think its not slow and its not going to match a bi-turbo 'thurmp' in the back, but it didn't feel like a 220BHP car. If I needed longer than a weekend to get used to the box, I'd be taking quite a punt on buying the car in the hope I'd get used it.
... I think really... I'm just a bit gutted that the car could have been so much more. Beautifully engineered, and the service at the dealership was A1 - but I just wasn't convinced by the drivetrain. I think if I lived in a big city and spent more time at very low speed crawling around in traffic, it would have made more sense and I'd have invested the time to learn it.
I read all the reviews, and watched all the youtube videos before I did the test drive - they nearly all said the CVT box was the weak spot - I really wanted them to be wrong... but I don't think they were in the end. Of course... all my humble opinion...
Super Slo Mo said:
...
Overtakes are fine too, while it's not in the same league as my bike (neither is a Golf R),
.. yup - the golf isn't as quick as my bike either... I agree with you. Overtakes are fine too, while it's not in the same league as my bike (neither is a Golf R),
Super Slo Mo said:
...
The performance doesn't feel as quick as it actually is, it's very linear so you get virtually all of the power at any road speed, but it then doesn't ramp up like it does in a normal car so it doesn't feel like it's accelerating.
... yes, agreed... I think in the end that just wasn't for me. The performance doesn't feel as quick as it actually is, it's very linear so you get virtually all of the power at any road speed, but it then doesn't ramp up like it does in a normal car so it doesn't feel like it's accelerating.
It would be a very dull world if we all liked the same thing. For me this is the first auto gearbox that I've actually got along with, I usually hate them with a passion.
During the Olympics in 2012 I had a 320d with the 8 speed box (we get the use of a car usually on these big projects); at the first opportunity I swapped it for a 6 speed manual, which suited me a lot better.
Other guys on the same job loved the auto, I thought it was awful, and generally always in the wrong gear, not helped by it defaulting to 'efficient dynamics' every time it was started.
I spend most of my life on the motorway, where I find it cruises very nicely and is more economical than the VAG 2.0 diesel I had before. I'm not sure I would buy one with my own money mind you, the lack of towing ability is a little bit of a fly in the ointment for me, although I could be tempted by the GS450h!
During the Olympics in 2012 I had a 320d with the 8 speed box (we get the use of a car usually on these big projects); at the first opportunity I swapped it for a 6 speed manual, which suited me a lot better.
Other guys on the same job loved the auto, I thought it was awful, and generally always in the wrong gear, not helped by it defaulting to 'efficient dynamics' every time it was started.
I spend most of my life on the motorway, where I find it cruises very nicely and is more economical than the VAG 2.0 diesel I had before. I'm not sure I would buy one with my own money mind you, the lack of towing ability is a little bit of a fly in the ointment for me, although I could be tempted by the GS450h!
Super Slo Mo said:
It would be a very dull world if we all liked the same thing. For me this is the first auto gearbox that I've actually got along with, I usually hate them with a passion.
Yup - of course. But this being PH and all, I just don't think that the is300h is very sporty. Its probably not pretending to be, but I thought I'd leave my perspective here, in case it's useful to others. FWIW, the DSG box in my golf is the only auto I think I've every really got on it.
.. I'd love to know if anyone has the RC300h, which I think has the same drive train and probably is trying to be sporty.
I had an IS300h on a lease from Oct 2014 until the same date last year.
Like the OP, I was quite taken with the Lexus at first, as it's supremely comfy and very well made. Loaded with kit, too (although the infotainment system was utterly cr*p).
However, I could not get on with that CVT 'box. True, you DO get used to it, but I hated it. From around 6 months in I was wishing time away, the lease becoming akin to a 2yr sentence with this droning monster. As the OP mentioned, if Lexus could fit a decent DSG or ZF 'box, it would utterly transform the car, as it handles really well, looks good and is very keenly priced!
I'm now in an Audi A4 1.4TFSI with only 150hp; somehow it feels far faster than the IS300h ever did, despite the 70hp difference!
I'd have an RX450h in a heartbeat, though - I think that the extra power of the V6 and the bigger body lends itself better to the lazy hybrid setup.
Like the OP, I was quite taken with the Lexus at first, as it's supremely comfy and very well made. Loaded with kit, too (although the infotainment system was utterly cr*p).
However, I could not get on with that CVT 'box. True, you DO get used to it, but I hated it. From around 6 months in I was wishing time away, the lease becoming akin to a 2yr sentence with this droning monster. As the OP mentioned, if Lexus could fit a decent DSG or ZF 'box, it would utterly transform the car, as it handles really well, looks good and is very keenly priced!
I'm now in an Audi A4 1.4TFSI with only 150hp; somehow it feels far faster than the IS300h ever did, despite the 70hp difference!
I'd have an RX450h in a heartbeat, though - I think that the extra power of the V6 and the bigger body lends itself better to the lazy hybrid setup.
alpaca85 said:
However, I could not get on with that CVT 'box. True, you DO get used to it, but I hated it. From around 6 months in I was wishing time away, the lease becoming akin to a 2yr sentence with this droning monster. As the OP mentioned, if Lexus could fit a decent DSG or ZF 'box, it would utterly transform the car, as it handles really well, looks good and is very keenly priced!
Exactly this... the drone was really bad. I don't mind fake engine noise, I'm pretty at least some of the noise that my golf makes is enhanced or maybe even synthesised, but it sounds pretty wicked. The drone of the lexus was awful. I also had an inkling I'd be wishing the time away, which is why I went and looked elsewhere. I still think that the BMW e drive train with the proper auto and a turbo would be fantastic.
I suppose the IS doesn't really have sporty pretentions - so I'm being a little harsh. I'd still love to hear from someone that has the RC300h which I think has the same drivetrain - I'd be really fed up if I'd bought that as I think that really is trying to be sporty.
I can imagine in london (or other big city) it would be great, and maybe even as a motorway mile muncher, but for any kind of out of town b road driving it fell far short.
I never try CVT on Lexus, but every CVT I tried was big no-no, and it looks like even lexus could not "fix" this. And it does not matter if big city with stop-go traffic, always CVT was awful experience for me compared with normal automatic (we are fans of auto, last decade 90% of our cars were auto).
We have old GS300 (in fact 2 of them at the moment, transition from mk1 to mk2), so I am sure 2.5 - 3.0l lexus has enough power and torque to make "event" similar as 2.0T. Old 3 litre without traction control spins good 225 tyres on first touch, and today I have a little test of kick-down in mk2 on motorway, and I have seen 5k revs and illegal speed rather quickly, I have seen better job only with PDK in boxter S.
They should keep normal transmissions, not devil's instrument called CVT. Period.
We have old GS300 (in fact 2 of them at the moment, transition from mk1 to mk2), so I am sure 2.5 - 3.0l lexus has enough power and torque to make "event" similar as 2.0T. Old 3 litre without traction control spins good 225 tyres on first touch, and today I have a little test of kick-down in mk2 on motorway, and I have seen 5k revs and illegal speed rather quickly, I have seen better job only with PDK in boxter S.
They should keep normal transmissions, not devil's instrument called CVT. Period.
conkerman said:
I didn't mind the e-CVT gearbox, it really is a bloody clever bit of engineering. I must work out how it works.
Lets face it, the IS300h really isn't a 'helmsmans' car is it? More of a quiet cruiser with bonus decent handling.
Anyhoo, I pick up a 2014 model on Saturday.
Welcome to the '14 club Lets face it, the IS300h really isn't a 'helmsmans' car is it? More of a quiet cruiser with bonus decent handling.
Anyhoo, I pick up a 2014 model on Saturday.
I'm 1000 miles in now and I really, really like this car.
The bulk of my driving is motorway cruising 40 miles-ish to work and it is perfect for this, bung it in Eco and let the car take care of it all. I don't even know if the paddles work . It's a fantastically quiet and comfortable car especially on 16in wheels.
I sort of agree that the engine feels a little underwhelming, but it is Atkinson cycle so power is not it's priority. But kick the crap out of it and it does shift pretty well, but performance is blunted by the weight of the car.
All of these compromises make sense when you think of the package as a whole, electric motors to fill the torque of the Atkinson engine and the CVT box keeps maximises efficiency.
Clever - Absolutely.
Involving - Not really.
The bulk of my driving is motorway cruising 40 miles-ish to work and it is perfect for this, bung it in Eco and let the car take care of it all. I don't even know if the paddles work . It's a fantastically quiet and comfortable car especially on 16in wheels.
I sort of agree that the engine feels a little underwhelming, but it is Atkinson cycle so power is not it's priority. But kick the crap out of it and it does shift pretty well, but performance is blunted by the weight of the car.
All of these compromises make sense when you think of the package as a whole, electric motors to fill the torque of the Atkinson engine and the CVT box keeps maximises efficiency.
Clever - Absolutely.
Involving - Not really.
phatmanace said:
The straw that broke the camels back was the saloon format. I had some stuff to do on the weekend, which involved picking up some boxes and stuff - I can't remember the last time I had to worry about fitting anything into the Audi (A4 Avant).. and it was well annoying having to try and tessellate everything into the is300h. I get that this isn't really the lexus's fault - would have been the case with any saloon.
It's interesting that you should say that. I really wanted to make an is300h work in my life- I spend a lot of time doing short city hops and I loved the ambience. I just couldn't justify a saloon, and I have an aversion to SUV's that don't ever go off road. I know that many people will wax lyrical about them for families, but it's my personal preference.I know they'll never make an is300h estate, now that the SUV is king, but that's what I really wanted. An Auris just didn't feel anywhere near as special.
We ended up a little downmarket of the OP, in an Octavia vRS estate. Enjoying it but I'm hoping someone makes a few more alternatives by the time it comes up for replacement in a few years' time.
Gassing Station | Japanese Chat | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff