Mitsubishi Evo 8/9/X
Discussion
Hi all,
I currently own a mk1 Focus RS but I've always wanted an Evo, and now I'm at the age where I could realistically insure one. Thing is I've never been in one, let alone driven one. Probably the closest I've ever come is a Subaru Impreza WRX.
I'm looking at the FQ300+ models, as my Focus is currently 310bhp and I don't want to step down in power. Is this car a logical next step from a Focus, or is it too similar to what I have (4wd not withstanding) in terms of an enthusiasts car that handles well, gives a thrilling experience etc.
There are a few things I want to do in my Focus first, such as visit the 'Ring, so it won't be sold if I do until at least the end of this year. Worth noting too that it won't be used daily, and will probably cover no more than 4-5k per year at a push.
Is this something you guys would recommend, or something I may regret?
I currently own a mk1 Focus RS but I've always wanted an Evo, and now I'm at the age where I could realistically insure one. Thing is I've never been in one, let alone driven one. Probably the closest I've ever come is a Subaru Impreza WRX.
I'm looking at the FQ300+ models, as my Focus is currently 310bhp and I don't want to step down in power. Is this car a logical next step from a Focus, or is it too similar to what I have (4wd not withstanding) in terms of an enthusiasts car that handles well, gives a thrilling experience etc.
There are a few things I want to do in my Focus first, such as visit the 'Ring, so it won't be sold if I do until at least the end of this year. Worth noting too that it won't be used daily, and will probably cover no more than 4-5k per year at a push.
Is this something you guys would recommend, or something I may regret?
Evos are leaps and bounds ahead, you won't regret it. I would estimate even a 260 would be faster around any fun roads. But don't get a 260, it's not a proper Evo 😜
Personally I think everyone should own an Evo at some point. It starts to define what a fast road car is capable of.
Personally I think everyone should own an Evo at some point. It starts to define what a fast road car is capable of.
I'm going to balance the argument with some negatives...
Given you state that this is not a daily - you seem to want a toy - I would also look at Elises and Caterfields as they are by far the better drivers car and in the case of the Elise are nicer looking with a better interior.
And in the quicker caterfields, in the dry, and Evo would be left for dead down a b-road. Factor in rain and snow and the balance switches.
They're also a compromised track car as they cost a fortune to get on track as they're hard on brakes and tyres when compared to an Elise.
They're also quite expensive, for example when the ACD pump fails - and it will.
The other thing with them is that they're pretty numb things and you need to be going VERY VERY fast in one to enjoy it to the full. So if / when it does go wrong you're looking at big off / fine / jail sentence.
IMO they work if you want a toy that can accommodate 4 adults and has a big boot but you can still have fun in on your own. If you don't need that then seriously give the other two options a try.
Don't get me wrong, they can be huge fun, but the opportunities to exploit them are rare. For most of the time they are a boxy 4 door with a crap interior.
I have a VII RS with EXE-TC dampers, revised geo, GRP-N ACD/AYC controller to make it a bit more pointy, and even in the RS without any sound deadening they really do hide speed well. My old Westy Blackbird was a hell of a lot more fun, cheaper to run, and much more special when you drove it.
I think they're too similar to what you have already. But if you loved the WRX you drove then you will probably like the Evo. On a public road there is nothing in it between them - the driver is the difference. A friend has an STi Grp-n rally car and there is little in it between our two cars. The only noticeable difference is the Scooby seems to have better drive from low revs.
Given you state that this is not a daily - you seem to want a toy - I would also look at Elises and Caterfields as they are by far the better drivers car and in the case of the Elise are nicer looking with a better interior.
And in the quicker caterfields, in the dry, and Evo would be left for dead down a b-road. Factor in rain and snow and the balance switches.
They're also a compromised track car as they cost a fortune to get on track as they're hard on brakes and tyres when compared to an Elise.
They're also quite expensive, for example when the ACD pump fails - and it will.
The other thing with them is that they're pretty numb things and you need to be going VERY VERY fast in one to enjoy it to the full. So if / when it does go wrong you're looking at big off / fine / jail sentence.
IMO they work if you want a toy that can accommodate 4 adults and has a big boot but you can still have fun in on your own. If you don't need that then seriously give the other two options a try.
Don't get me wrong, they can be huge fun, but the opportunities to exploit them are rare. For most of the time they are a boxy 4 door with a crap interior.
I have a VII RS with EXE-TC dampers, revised geo, GRP-N ACD/AYC controller to make it a bit more pointy, and even in the RS without any sound deadening they really do hide speed well. My old Westy Blackbird was a hell of a lot more fun, cheaper to run, and much more special when you drove it.
I think they're too similar to what you have already. But if you loved the WRX you drove then you will probably like the Evo. On a public road there is nothing in it between them - the driver is the difference. A friend has an STi Grp-n rally car and there is little in it between our two cars. The only noticeable difference is the Scooby seems to have better drive from low revs.
Thanks grale but if I did buy one it wouldn't be until at least the end of this year.
True rhinochopig it will be a toy, but a caterfield probably wouldn't be a brilliant choice as I don't have a garage, maybe a Lotus but I can't say I'm as swayed by them - I've always been more drawn to road going rally cars. Also it wouldn't be spending much time on the track, aside from the odd 20 minute sessions at shows.
I spend a lot of the time in my RS up around the Black Mountains in south and mid Wales - twisty mountain roads with not much traffic and even less police presence. Are these the sorts of roads where an Evo would come alive?
And unfortunately the WRX I drove (a friends) was rough at the time with a nackered diff, so I was under instructions not to drive it hard, unfortunately.
True rhinochopig it will be a toy, but a caterfield probably wouldn't be a brilliant choice as I don't have a garage, maybe a Lotus but I can't say I'm as swayed by them - I've always been more drawn to road going rally cars. Also it wouldn't be spending much time on the track, aside from the odd 20 minute sessions at shows.
I spend a lot of the time in my RS up around the Black Mountains in south and mid Wales - twisty mountain roads with not much traffic and even less police presence. Are these the sorts of roads where an Evo would come alive?
And unfortunately the WRX I drove (a friends) was rough at the time with a nackered diff, so I was under instructions not to drive it hard, unfortunately.
Fair points made by all, but....
You wont get 160 from a caterfield with a motorbike engine & in reality when I drove my westy, it used to come off the road on crests all the time due to lightness, this made it slower than the evo on real roads. And TBH I like driving mine in the wet, where nothing can touch you at all (unless it has 4wd) it slippery conditions (it rains alot in Devon)
I'd say go for it, it sounds like youve already made your mind up !
Other options for me would be the Focus Mk2 RS modded to 400 (but FWD!) - Look at an Exige, but weedy powerplants. A modded skyline R33 maybe. But TBH for £14k you wont get much better bang for your buck. Thats why i cant find anything to replace mine
Dax Rush Quadra Cosworth maybe ?
You wont get 160 from a caterfield with a motorbike engine & in reality when I drove my westy, it used to come off the road on crests all the time due to lightness, this made it slower than the evo on real roads. And TBH I like driving mine in the wet, where nothing can touch you at all (unless it has 4wd) it slippery conditions (it rains alot in Devon)
I'd say go for it, it sounds like youve already made your mind up !
Other options for me would be the Focus Mk2 RS modded to 400 (but FWD!) - Look at an Exige, but weedy powerplants. A modded skyline R33 maybe. But TBH for £14k you wont get much better bang for your buck. Thats why i cant find anything to replace mine
Dax Rush Quadra Cosworth maybe ?
I'm sort of in the same boat as the original poster, been thinking of it for a while. I need to drive an "auto" due to an old biking injury so I was thinking of an X SST. I've got the MX5 for cruising top down, it is RWD slow fun, thought an FQ300/330 would be the other end of the spectrum, all bases covered, chalk and cheese.
The running costs will be high I guess with 4500 servicing etc but what worries me is I feel rather out of my depth with looking at adverts. I saw this one
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...
It seems a moderate upgrade, the wheels are obviously non standard, but is it a reasonable car? Is that tuner any good or do I have to read 3 years of forums to know what I am doing. I could go a standard, but then if the car has a light tune without it stressing too much other things it would stop me wanting to start my own "moderate tuning" which is a bit of a slippery slope as you well know.
Thoughts?
Apart from the air conditioning failing ( I can just dump that surely if it does, never use it much) are there any other big pitfalls in the Porsche re-engine or AMG new gearbox type things to think about?
Andy
The running costs will be high I guess with 4500 servicing etc but what worries me is I feel rather out of my depth with looking at adverts. I saw this one
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...
It seems a moderate upgrade, the wheels are obviously non standard, but is it a reasonable car? Is that tuner any good or do I have to read 3 years of forums to know what I am doing. I could go a standard, but then if the car has a light tune without it stressing too much other things it would stop me wanting to start my own "moderate tuning" which is a bit of a slippery slope as you well know.
Thoughts?
Apart from the air conditioning failing ( I can just dump that surely if it does, never use it much) are there any other big pitfalls in the Porsche re-engine or AMG new gearbox type things to think about?
Andy
if you are thinking of buying a X there are several issues which need to be looked at. The X has a problem with the standard fuel pump relay failing, check this has been replaced. The timing chains stretch and a new design has been brought out by Mitsubishi. AYC pumps are a nightmare on the X due to location and poor pump design. Front pulleys fray the belts which lead to belts snapping, I believe there is currently a recall on this to change the pulley design.
rhinochopig said:
I'm going to balance the argument with some negatives...
Allow me to offer a counterpoint to your counterpoint Let me begin by stating that I love Elises and Caterfields. said:
in the case of the Elise are nicer looking with a better interior.
The Elise is many things but this is the first time I've heard its interior being mentioned as a selling point. It certainly has a minimalist appeal, but it's hardly anything to boast about. That's if you can actually get in comfortably, which not everyone can. said:
And in the quicker caterfields, in the dry, and Evo would be left for dead down a b-road.
There have been many debates on this and it is far from a foregone conclusion. My own view is that both Elise and Caterfield are held back on the road by poor visibility. You can't push hard on real roads when you can't see what's across the next crest - the Evo is far better in this regard. Also it's much easier for a driver of average skill to punt an Evo at 8/9 tenths than it is to do the same in a Caterfield. said:
They're also a compromised track car as they cost a fortune to get on track as they're hard on brakes and tyres when compared to an Elise.
No disagreement there at all. said:
The other thing with them is that they're pretty numb things and you need to be going VERY VERY fast in one to enjoy it to the full. So if / when it does go wrong you're looking at big off / fine / jail sentence.
Everyone's needs are different. In my case I want a toy that I can take on brisk European jaunts with fast friends and hold my own. A Caterham that tops out at 110 mph and needs refuelling every 110-120 miles isn't going to cut it (granted the fuel range of the Evo isn't too clever either). Any non-SC Elise will also quickly be left behind in Germany in the company of the 996 turbos, GT-Rs and the like that typically come along on these tours. A standard Evo or STi costing £8k will not be embarrassed, and with a £3-4k outlay on some choice go-faster bits will be more than a match for the exotica. said:
My old Westy Blackbird was a hell of a lot more fun, cheaper to run, and much more special when you drove it.
For a 50-mile blast after work on a summer's day, for sure. For a 800-mile March weekend in Wales with typical Welsh weather, or 2,000 miles in a week in Spain and Portugal without needing a hernia operation afterwards, or for year-round hooning duties not just on a rare warm and dry day, I'll take an Evobaru.Comparing a lightweight low-power two-seater with a turbo AWD is apples and oranges. If possible, own both.
Everyone should own an evo at some time in their life - mine was always an experience. Every journey an event, some good, some bad!!
However, do not underestimate the running costs, really don't.
Never regretted owning one, but i'd never have another - the constant costs and maintenance just gets a bit much in the end. Plus I began getting into trackdays and sprints and these really aren't the evo's best point without going down the modification route, and i can't be bothered with all that either.
Keep it as a fast road car and point to point you'll be shocked - just ballistic over more or less any surface.
Not the best image any more and the 8/9 is an old car now. Get the newest and best maintained you can. Condition is key. A 260 is a waste of effort. A 320 the best bet IMO.
Go get it bought and enjoy...then sell up and move on...
However, do not underestimate the running costs, really don't.
Never regretted owning one, but i'd never have another - the constant costs and maintenance just gets a bit much in the end. Plus I began getting into trackdays and sprints and these really aren't the evo's best point without going down the modification route, and i can't be bothered with all that either.
Keep it as a fast road car and point to point you'll be shocked - just ballistic over more or less any surface.
Not the best image any more and the 8/9 is an old car now. Get the newest and best maintained you can. Condition is key. A 260 is a waste of effort. A 320 the best bet IMO.
Go get it bought and enjoy...then sell up and move on...
Gandahar said:
I'm sort of in the same boat as the original poster, been thinking of it for a while. I need to drive an "auto" due to an old biking injury so I was thinking of an X SST. I've got the MX5 for cruising top down, it is RWD slow fun, thought an FQ300/330 would be the other end of the spectrum, all bases covered, chalk and cheese.
The running costs will be high I guess with 4500 servicing etc but what worries me is I feel rather out of my depth with looking at adverts. I saw this one
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...
It seems a moderate upgrade, the wheels are obviously non standard, but is it a reasonable car? Is that tuner any good or do I have to read 3 years of forums to know what I am doing. I could go a standard, but then if the car has a light tune without it stressing too much other things it would stop me wanting to start my own "moderate tuning" which is a bit of a slippery slope as you well know.
Thoughts?
Apart from the air conditioning failing ( I can just dump that surely if it does, never use it much) are there any other big pitfalls in the Porsche re-engine or AMG new gearbox type things to think about?
Andy
Haven't owned a X, but no-one else has responded. The SST isn't reputed to be the strongest of gearboxes, and that would be my main concern when buying that car. However, Indigo GT have a very good reputation in Evo circles, and if you are interested in that car, they'll know it, ring them and ask them to tell you the truth about potential future issues.The running costs will be high I guess with 4500 servicing etc but what worries me is I feel rather out of my depth with looking at adverts. I saw this one
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...
It seems a moderate upgrade, the wheels are obviously non standard, but is it a reasonable car? Is that tuner any good or do I have to read 3 years of forums to know what I am doing. I could go a standard, but then if the car has a light tune without it stressing too much other things it would stop me wanting to start my own "moderate tuning" which is a bit of a slippery slope as you well know.
Thoughts?
Apart from the air conditioning failing ( I can just dump that surely if it does, never use it much) are there any other big pitfalls in the Porsche re-engine or AMG new gearbox type things to think about?
Andy
Maf sensors are prone to failure, things like aircon, etc, are normal, issue free Jap fare, and shouldn't cause any pain. As I said earlier, a looked after Evo is usually an exceptionally reliable thing.
Heaveho said:
Haven't owned a X, but no-one else has responded. The SST isn't reputed to be the strongest of gearboxes, and that would be my main concern when buying that car. However, Indigo GT have a very good reputation in Evo circles, and if you are interested in that car, they'll know it, ring them and ask them to tell you the truth about potential future issues.
Maf sensors are prone to failure, things like aircon, etc, are normal, issue free Jap fare, and shouldn't cause any pain. As I said earlier, a looked after Evo is usually an exceptionally reliable thing.
The SST box is fine up to 360 bhp and possibly quite a lot more if the engine is mapped to bring in the torque gradually.Maf sensors are prone to failure, things like aircon, etc, are normal, issue free Jap fare, and shouldn't cause any pain. As I said earlier, a looked after Evo is usually an exceptionally reliable thing.
The new FQ-440 is even an an SST only version, although it has quite a few thousand pounds worth of upgraded parts.
Agreed, the SST box gets grief from a lot of the Evo community, but many of them haven't even driven an SST - it's just bandwagon jumping and uniformed "opinion".
It's true that if you leave the gearbox in "Normal" mode and drive it in auto, it's sluggish and a bit boring, but what people miss is that is exactly what it's designed for - cruising gently around town in traffic or sitting in stop/start queues on a motorway. Flip the switch to "Super Sport" and the gearbox is transformed; the instant changes genuinely make the SST faster than the equivalent manual.
The fact that the manual Evo X gearbox is only 5 gears and the SST is 6 is another factor in favour of the SST.
Yet another is that it's practically impossible to abuse an SST box - the gearbox ECU won't let you over rev it or cock up a change. The same cannot be said for the vast majority of manual Evo gearbox/clutches.
Funny how often this seems to happen........guy asks a question..........no-one responds for days.............you try and help the guy, immediately qualifying your response by making it clear in your first sentence that it isn't 1st hand experience, and that the only reason you're responding at all is because no-one else has. Your response is then immediately corrected or adjusted by someone else.
Seems odd how often there's a long gap between someone asking a question and getting an attempt at a helpful answer, and a very short gap after that before someone else who has direct knowledge then gets involved?
Not having a dig, and not even specific to me, just something I've noticed happens with reasonable frequency on a variety of forums. It's possible I've even done it myself!
Seems odd how often there's a long gap between someone asking a question and getting an attempt at a helpful answer, and a very short gap after that before someone else who has direct knowledge then gets involved?
Not having a dig, and not even specific to me, just something I've noticed happens with reasonable frequency on a variety of forums. It's possible I've even done it myself!
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