Anyone track an Rx-7?
Discussion
Hi Chaps,
Thought id post in here to leech some information.
Im looking at a rx7 as a new track car.
I just wondered if there are any variants that i should def hold out for, or key mods i should desire / fit straight away.( rats nest and fuel pump wiring, chassis bracing?)
Im thinking of getting a bit of a dog / non runner and doing a bit of a restoration / track car transformation.
I want to be pushing at least 300bhp. Is this quite easy to achieve? Roughly what mods (fmic, after market ecu, fuel pump?
Also as im going to overhaul most of the car, are there easily available parts of recommended retailers?
Thanks guys,
Im sure all this info is out there somewhere and i am googling like a mad man, but all the info the better
Thought id post in here to leech some information.
Im looking at a rx7 as a new track car.
I just wondered if there are any variants that i should def hold out for, or key mods i should desire / fit straight away.( rats nest and fuel pump wiring, chassis bracing?)
Im thinking of getting a bit of a dog / non runner and doing a bit of a restoration / track car transformation.
I want to be pushing at least 300bhp. Is this quite easy to achieve? Roughly what mods (fmic, after market ecu, fuel pump?
Also as im going to overhaul most of the car, are there easily available parts of recommended retailers?
Thanks guys,
Im sure all this info is out there somewhere and i am googling like a mad man, but all the info the better
Loads of tracked RX7s, and they're a car that really shines out there.
Given the 13b's propensity for overheating, you really need to be looking at cooling mods. Alloy AST, silicon hoses, ducted headlights, bonnet vents, v-mount (or at least a large capacity) radiator should be top of the list, along with as much heat shielding from the exhaust and turbo(s) as you can fit. The majority of the above might not be to your taste aesthetically, but the Rex doesn't look so good on the back of a flatbed either.
After cooling is sorted, you'll definitely need to upgrade the brakes and suspension. My (standard) brakes were more than adequate for the road, but 4 laps at Knockhill had me pulling into the pits to let them cool down.
Apart from that, stick a decent AFM in there and keep on top of your fluid changes, plugs & leads and you should be grand.
[EDIT] Just read the rest of your question.
300bhp should be very easy. I reckon you'd get that with just an Apexi Power FC and remap on standard twins.
For comparison, mine was making 370bhp with the following:
Single turbo conversion (cheap-ish US Master Power T70 thing, but it's held up to about 15,000 miles of abuse so far)
Apexi Power FC
Boost controller
Blitz induction kit
Large front mount intercooler
Decat & 3" Racing Beat exhaust
850cc primary injectors
Supra fuel pump
Approx. value of the above mods would be around £1500 with some prudent classifieds/ebay purchases, and then you have to fit them. Mapping is about £300 on top of that. Larger secondary injectors and fuel rail would have opened up possibilities in excess of 450bhp.
Also, the FD RX7 suffers really badly from fuel starvation when below half a tank. Either a full baffled replacement tank or some kind of in-tank fuel collection thing (FEED do one, but it's pricy - there's someone doing a cheaper copy on FD:UK forum), or swirl pot arrangement is the only way to overcome this.
Given the 13b's propensity for overheating, you really need to be looking at cooling mods. Alloy AST, silicon hoses, ducted headlights, bonnet vents, v-mount (or at least a large capacity) radiator should be top of the list, along with as much heat shielding from the exhaust and turbo(s) as you can fit. The majority of the above might not be to your taste aesthetically, but the Rex doesn't look so good on the back of a flatbed either.
After cooling is sorted, you'll definitely need to upgrade the brakes and suspension. My (standard) brakes were more than adequate for the road, but 4 laps at Knockhill had me pulling into the pits to let them cool down.
Apart from that, stick a decent AFM in there and keep on top of your fluid changes, plugs & leads and you should be grand.
[EDIT] Just read the rest of your question.
300bhp should be very easy. I reckon you'd get that with just an Apexi Power FC and remap on standard twins.
For comparison, mine was making 370bhp with the following:
Single turbo conversion (cheap-ish US Master Power T70 thing, but it's held up to about 15,000 miles of abuse so far)
Apexi Power FC
Boost controller
Blitz induction kit
Large front mount intercooler
Decat & 3" Racing Beat exhaust
850cc primary injectors
Supra fuel pump
Approx. value of the above mods would be around £1500 with some prudent classifieds/ebay purchases, and then you have to fit them. Mapping is about £300 on top of that. Larger secondary injectors and fuel rail would have opened up possibilities in excess of 450bhp.
Also, the FD RX7 suffers really badly from fuel starvation when below half a tank. Either a full baffled replacement tank or some kind of in-tank fuel collection thing (FEED do one, but it's pricy - there's someone doing a cheaper copy on FD:UK forum), or swirl pot arrangement is the only way to overcome this.
Edited by The Flying Ox on Tuesday 1st October 17:14
that is fantastic information thanks.
How many trackdays / miles / years do people normally get from an engine?
what power is the transmission and diff good for?
Sounds like its on,
found one for sale with most of those mods above for a pretty good price. It has a few issue but nothing i cant sort.
Can i ask for typical price?
Ive seen everything from 1500 for blown engine but good for 400bhp, 8k for 570 bhp, 8k for mint 370 bhp and 6k for 370 slightly with a few faults and 5.5k for immaculate 300bhp example.
How many trackdays / miles / years do people normally get from an engine?
what power is the transmission and diff good for?
Sounds like its on,
found one for sale with most of those mods above for a pretty good price. It has a few issue but nothing i cant sort.
Can i ask for typical price?
Ive seen everything from 1500 for blown engine but good for 400bhp, 8k for 570 bhp, 8k for mint 370 bhp and 6k for 370 slightly with a few faults and 5.5k for immaculate 300bhp example.
How does this spec read? The car needs a rebuild. Any recommendations or suggestions on rebuild price? It seems 1k is common if i can deliver the engine. Also seems 1k for parts for diy. Correct me if im wrong.
Street ported
850CC Primary and secondary injectors
Stage 1 Snow Performance Water Methanol Injection
Ported Throttle Body
Coolant pipe re routed to eliminate throttle body
Butterfly Valves removed in UIM (cleaner airflow)
Non sequential turbo conversion
All vacuum lines replaced with silicon
Rats nest removed
Racing Air Temperature Sensor installed in UIM
Custom made mild steel straight through exhaust
Apexi FC stand alone ECU
Greddy Profec B Spec 2 boost controller
Greddy oil cap
Apexi Rev Speed meter (shows G pulled, RPM, 0-100 speed etc)
Apexi Induction Kit
Battery relocated to boot to improve airflow and engine bay space
Battery wires upgraded to 0G to reduce any power loss
New battery bought this June with 3 year warranty
Greddy
Fuel pump Rewire modification (reduces the common loss of fuel pressure some experience when going over 300 BHP due to old wiring)
Radiator upgraded to 50mm alloy and remounted to sit as it should in a V mount setup
Radtech charge cooler (reduces turbo lag compared to a large intercooler setup)
Alloy Alternator and Water pump pulley wheels
Magnecore HT leads
Exedy Stage 2 clutch
SARD Alloy AST (Plastic ones can blow causing engine damage)
Blitz Dump Valve
HID lights
Scorpion Sigma S30 alarm installed less then a month ago (£300). Has a key pad installed so even if the keys are stolen they cannot start the car without the pin
Street ported
850CC Primary and secondary injectors
Stage 1 Snow Performance Water Methanol Injection
Ported Throttle Body
Coolant pipe re routed to eliminate throttle body
Butterfly Valves removed in UIM (cleaner airflow)
Non sequential turbo conversion
All vacuum lines replaced with silicon
Rats nest removed
Racing Air Temperature Sensor installed in UIM
Custom made mild steel straight through exhaust
Apexi FC stand alone ECU
Greddy Profec B Spec 2 boost controller
Greddy oil cap
Apexi Rev Speed meter (shows G pulled, RPM, 0-100 speed etc)
Apexi Induction Kit
Battery relocated to boot to improve airflow and engine bay space
Battery wires upgraded to 0G to reduce any power loss
New battery bought this June with 3 year warranty
Greddy
Fuel pump Rewire modification (reduces the common loss of fuel pressure some experience when going over 300 BHP due to old wiring)
Radiator upgraded to 50mm alloy and remounted to sit as it should in a V mount setup
Radtech charge cooler (reduces turbo lag compared to a large intercooler setup)
Alloy Alternator and Water pump pulley wheels
Magnecore HT leads
Exedy Stage 2 clutch
SARD Alloy AST (Plastic ones can blow causing engine damage)
Blitz Dump Valve
HID lights
Scorpion Sigma S30 alarm installed less then a month ago (£300). Has a key pad installed so even if the keys are stolen they cannot start the car without the pin
Looks a decent spec, but it all depends on the car itself. If it's been looked after, you'll be fine as long as you continue to look after it. Get a compression test done by someone who knows rotaries before you buy anything. You should be aiming for high 7s for all three (six) readings, preferably high 8s.
I'd imagine power-wise that car would be good for somewhere in the mid 300s, possibly higher depending on the porting and mapping.
As for the other questions...
Lifespan of the engine entirely depends on how it's looked after. Some people rebuild, then treat with kid gloves and the engine goes within a couple of thousand miles. Mine was rebuilt about 18,000 miles ago, converted to single turbo about 14,000 miles ago, and was a daily driver all through my ownership. It's now over in Sweden getting ragged about a racetrack every weekend and still going strong. I think the more they're used (and abused
) the better they are.
I think gearbox is probably good for 500bhp, but I reckon I was on the limit for the standard clutch. There are always second-hand-but-new ones good for big power for sale on the forums, so I wouldn't worry about that.
Weight-wise, I think it varies slightly. Mine was listed as 1165kg in the book, but it all depends on the extras/mods I suppose. Carbon bonnet, lightweight alloys, stripped interior should see close to 50kg weight loss.
Wheel size for track, 16" or 17" I reckon. Any bigger and it's more for show than for go. I had 17" OZ Racing Crono on Federal 595RS-R tyres and it cornered like a housefly. Tyres were £120 a corner at Camskill, dunno if they're still that price.
I'd imagine power-wise that car would be good for somewhere in the mid 300s, possibly higher depending on the porting and mapping.
As for the other questions...
Lifespan of the engine entirely depends on how it's looked after. Some people rebuild, then treat with kid gloves and the engine goes within a couple of thousand miles. Mine was rebuilt about 18,000 miles ago, converted to single turbo about 14,000 miles ago, and was a daily driver all through my ownership. It's now over in Sweden getting ragged about a racetrack every weekend and still going strong. I think the more they're used (and abused
) the better they are.I think gearbox is probably good for 500bhp, but I reckon I was on the limit for the standard clutch. There are always second-hand-but-new ones good for big power for sale on the forums, so I wouldn't worry about that.
Weight-wise, I think it varies slightly. Mine was listed as 1165kg in the book, but it all depends on the extras/mods I suppose. Carbon bonnet, lightweight alloys, stripped interior should see close to 50kg weight loss.
Wheel size for track, 16" or 17" I reckon. Any bigger and it's more for show than for go. I had 17" OZ Racing Crono on Federal 595RS-R tyres and it cornered like a housefly. Tyres were £120 a corner at Camskill, dunno if they're still that price.
£1k is not going to get you a rebuild, full stop. A full set of decent seals, tips, o-rings, springs, etc. required for a rebuild will cost a grand on their own, and then you have the labour cost on top of that. I'd imagine at least double that for a build from a reputable garage.
There are a number of builders in the country, each have their fans and haters. Go on the forums for an idea if who's who, but for what it's worth, Steve Rivett has nothing but praise from the guys on fd:uk
As for price of cars, for a ready to run, already modified track car, you should be looking at somewhere in the region of £5-6k. Significantly less and they'll be dogs or not suitably modified. Significantly more and they'll be highly modified and/or show cars that are far too beautiful to risk on a track.
There are a number of builders in the country, each have their fans and haters. Go on the forums for an idea if who's who, but for what it's worth, Steve Rivett has nothing but praise from the guys on fd:uk
As for price of cars, for a ready to run, already modified track car, you should be looking at somewhere in the region of £5-6k. Significantly less and they'll be dogs or not suitably modified. Significantly more and they'll be highly modified and/or show cars that are far too beautiful to risk on a track.
can i ask what are the typical running costs for trackdays?
How many days do you get out of a set of tyres and brake pads and discs?
Currently its a toss up between a modified rx7, or a cheap E46 M3 which will be totally stripped.
Pros and cons for both.
e46 + is i already have another one and know them inside out, great handling and proven power.
cons. expensive brakes and heavy unless totally stripped.
rx7 + is lightweight from the start, even lighter when stripped. I would therefore expect cheaper tyres and brakes to last longer. Cost effective. Modifyable to scratch that ich and gain 400+ bhp.
- 'vs. its 20 year old car, and im worried its old tech vs the e46 m3 which will require lots of modifications to get up to the same standard. Not sure it will be as amazingly involving to drive as the e46.
How many days do you get out of a set of tyres and brake pads and discs?
Currently its a toss up between a modified rx7, or a cheap E46 M3 which will be totally stripped.
Pros and cons for both.
e46 + is i already have another one and know them inside out, great handling and proven power.
cons. expensive brakes and heavy unless totally stripped.
rx7 + is lightweight from the start, even lighter when stripped. I would therefore expect cheaper tyres and brakes to last longer. Cost effective. Modifyable to scratch that ich and gain 400+ bhp.
- 'vs. its 20 year old car, and im worried its old tech vs the e46 m3 which will require lots of modifications to get up to the same standard. Not sure it will be as amazingly involving to drive as the e46.
e46m3c said:
can i ask what are the typical running costs for trackdays?
How many days do you get out of a set of tyres and brake pads and discs?
Currently its a toss up between a modified rx7, or a cheap E46 M3 which will be totally stripped.
Pros and cons for both.
e46 + is i already have another one and know them inside out, great handling and proven power.
cons. expensive brakes and heavy unless totally stripped.
rx7 + is lightweight from the start, even lighter when stripped. I would therefore expect cheaper tyres and brakes to last longer. Cost effective. Modifyable to scratch that ich and gain 400+ bhp.
- 'vs. its 20 year old car, and im worried its old tech vs the e46 m3 which will require lots of modifications to get up to the same standard. Not sure it will be as amazingly involving to drive as the e46.
Running costs are going to be roughly the same as an M3 I would have thought. Your general wear & tear items will be cheaper than the Beemer but you are going to be spending a lot more on fuel. 400+ bhp on a track and you'll be seeing single figure mpg. 400+ bhp on the road won't be much more.How many days do you get out of a set of tyres and brake pads and discs?
Currently its a toss up between a modified rx7, or a cheap E46 M3 which will be totally stripped.
Pros and cons for both.
e46 + is i already have another one and know them inside out, great handling and proven power.
cons. expensive brakes and heavy unless totally stripped.
rx7 + is lightweight from the start, even lighter when stripped. I would therefore expect cheaper tyres and brakes to last longer. Cost effective. Modifyable to scratch that ich and gain 400+ bhp.
- 'vs. its 20 year old car, and im worried its old tech vs the e46 m3 which will require lots of modifications to get up to the same standard. Not sure it will be as amazingly involving to drive as the e46.
The Federal 595RS-R tyres should be good for about 5000 miles of mixed track and road, depending on how lairy you are. Brakes are brakes are brakes. Change them every couple of track days I would have thought. They're not too expensive for the RX7, depending on what brand you go for.
As for the amount of upgrading required, if you get one with coilovers, wheels and cooling mods already done, there'll be little for you to do other than keep on top of the servicing. Bear in mind there's always the spectre of engine failure hanging over a RX owner. I guess all engines can let go, particularly tracked ones, but it wouldn't hurt to keep a couple of grand in reserve should the worst happen. Or learn how to do it yourself. It's not a particularly difficult job to rebuild, and there are many self-rebuilt RX7s on the road, you just need to be a total perfectionist with the tolerances.
As for how involving it is, and whether or not you could get an RX7 "up to the same standard" as an M3
I guess you won't really know until you've tried one. If I had a choice between an E46 M3 and a FD RX7, I'd be going for the Mazda every single time. There's no comparison.Mines going cheap if your interested.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...
Need a quick sale hence the low price.
Low miles and only had enthusiast owners!
I always planned on tracking but never did!
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...
Need a quick sale hence the low price.
Low miles and only had enthusiast owners!
I always planned on tracking but never did!
TREMAiNE said:
Mines going cheap if your interested.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...
Need a quick sale hence the low price.
Low miles and only had enthusiast owners!
I always planned on tracking but never did!
not wanting to sound harsh but i wouldn't class that as cheap or low price to sell. No mention of compression results and at 40k it is likely on its first engine. also 330bhp from running rich seems unlikely, no mention of aftermarket ecu or upgrades other than exhaust pipe which wouldn't add 80hp over a stock car.http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...
Need a quick sale hence the low price.
Low miles and only had enthusiast owners!
I always planned on tracking but never did!
To the op, you can pick up a good spec rx7 for around £4500 these days, mine needed a respray as the red cars go a bit pink after a while which is why I got mine relatively cheap with a new engine, clutch and gearbox recently fitted. You will also find plenty of parts because most people will try and sell the rx7 at really high prices, won't sell so will break the car for parts to sell.
hop over to fduk.org, they usually have quite a lot of cars for sale on there, also don't get one without recent compression tests.
17 inch wheels were OEM fitment on some versions, so probably a good compromise. I think most of the all out time attack FDs run 18s though.
I wouldn't advise buying a real dog and modifying, a bad car can suffer from wiring, fueling and cooling gremlins, any of which can kill a new engine. Otoh if the ancillary parts are fine the engine should last 50-100k.
I agree with the above advice about cooling mods, suspension and brake parts are a matter of how far you want to go but they aren't up to any track use without cooling mods.
Main advantages of the FD are not just light weight but double wishbones all round, torsen diff and low c of g.
Prices are all over the place, look for condition and extent of work done over horsepower figures. 5k is a benchmark for a good one, although prices seem to have risen a bit lately. If you found a good track prepped car for 8k that would be cheaper than modifying yourself, only if it is a good one tho.
I wouldn't advise buying a real dog and modifying, a bad car can suffer from wiring, fueling and cooling gremlins, any of which can kill a new engine. Otoh if the ancillary parts are fine the engine should last 50-100k.
I agree with the above advice about cooling mods, suspension and brake parts are a matter of how far you want to go but they aren't up to any track use without cooling mods.
Main advantages of the FD are not just light weight but double wishbones all round, torsen diff and low c of g.
Prices are all over the place, look for condition and extent of work done over horsepower figures. 5k is a benchmark for a good one, although prices seem to have risen a bit lately. If you found a good track prepped car for 8k that would be cheaper than modifying yourself, only if it is a good one tho.
They make fantastic track cars , they have proper suspension and are 300kg lighter , I do v8 conversions on them and they are brilliant on track !! , just a set off good coil overs and some decent Tyres and proper pads ready to go !! Bladez on here tracks his all the time , at silvers tone tomorrow 17th nov he would take you for a spin if you ever see him at a track !!
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