to buy - accord type r v nissan 200sx v r33 skyline gtst
Discussion
hi all i need a little help advice, for a toy my misses agreed i can have.
i know theyre all slightly different but im looking for pros and cons of the said 3 cars?
ive always loved the look and shape of an ATR, the vtec,the spoiler,5 doors,decent sized boot,reliability, fairly cheap to run/fix. but are they all that fast nowadays?
skyline gtst, i could never afford a gtr, like alot of people a skyline has always been a dream car, would a r33 gtst be reliable? insurance for a 29 yr old? mpg? ive never driven one, are they as good as i would imagine?.
always loves the 200sx to, im a big nissan fan thanks to my primera gts(hence the accord love as its the same but more), are they reliable? quick? will it kill me as ive never owned a RWD car lol, will it feel special?.
if anyone could help, shed some light etc etc
thanks
i know theyre all slightly different but im looking for pros and cons of the said 3 cars?
ive always loved the look and shape of an ATR, the vtec,the spoiler,5 doors,decent sized boot,reliability, fairly cheap to run/fix. but are they all that fast nowadays?
skyline gtst, i could never afford a gtr, like alot of people a skyline has always been a dream car, would a r33 gtst be reliable? insurance for a 29 yr old? mpg? ive never driven one, are they as good as i would imagine?.
always loves the 200sx to, im a big nissan fan thanks to my primera gts(hence the accord love as its the same but more), are they reliable? quick? will it kill me as ive never owned a RWD car lol, will it feel special?.
if anyone could help, shed some light etc etc
thanks
type R will spit on the others round the twisties, but you have to rev the t*ts off it and this can get tiring - depends on what you like.
200sx is a tourer and relatively benign in standard trim (if you can find one). Its not the best handler but can be made to do so. lots of parts and mods available and can up the power to 280bhp for relatively little money. May be best to go for a modded one if you want to go down that root (and you will). Good reliability and with the available off the shelf remaps you can get extra power and better economy.
GTST - think of 200sx with 100% Skyline tax
I've had my 200 for 8 years now running 280ish, and still puts a smile on my face. I know of plenty with 100k miles and a few with 200k+ all been thrashed round tracks on a regular basis
200sx is a tourer and relatively benign in standard trim (if you can find one). Its not the best handler but can be made to do so. lots of parts and mods available and can up the power to 280bhp for relatively little money. May be best to go for a modded one if you want to go down that root (and you will). Good reliability and with the available off the shelf remaps you can get extra power and better economy.
GTST - think of 200sx with 100% Skyline tax
I've had my 200 for 8 years now running 280ish, and still puts a smile on my face. I know of plenty with 100k miles and a few with 200k+ all been thrashed round tracks on a regular basis
Edited by sparkyhx on Wednesday 8th May 21:34
There are various documented reasons why some have had engine rebuilds. Usually points to poor maintenance, poor mapping or low octane fuel.
I have had several friends with imprezas and we have (touchwood) never had an engine rebuild between us over the years.
Mine has only cost me general maintenance (cambelt, fluids and filters etc) and a sticky caliper in the 3 years I have had it.
I would expect a 200sx or skyline would have cost me a fair bit more to maintain and run, a friends 200sx certainly did.
I have had several friends with imprezas and we have (touchwood) never had an engine rebuild between us over the years.
Mine has only cost me general maintenance (cambelt, fluids and filters etc) and a sticky caliper in the 3 years I have had it.
I would expect a 200sx or skyline would have cost me a fair bit more to maintain and run, a friends 200sx certainly did.
rb5er said:
There are various documented reasons why some have had engine rebuilds. Usually points to poor maintenance, poor mapping or low octane fuel.
I have had several friends with imprezas and we have (touchwood) never had an engine rebuild between us over the years.
Mine has only cost me general maintenance (cambelt, fluids and filters etc) and a sticky caliper in the 3 years I have had it.
I would expect a 200sx or skyline would have cost me a fair bit more to maintain and run, a friends 200sx certainly did.
In 8 years mine has cost me 1 power steering pipe £20, and two coil pack which I picked up 1 free and 1 for £10. + consumables.I have had several friends with imprezas and we have (touchwood) never had an engine rebuild between us over the years.
Mine has only cost me general maintenance (cambelt, fluids and filters etc) and a sticky caliper in the 3 years I have had it.
I would expect a 200sx or skyline would have cost me a fair bit more to maintain and run, a friends 200sx certainly did.
but spent thousands on making it go faster stop better and handle better.
They are known for reliability, like I said in my first post plenty running high power at high milages for a long time. The only issue now is they are finding themselves at the bottom end of the market bought by unsympathetic people who don't do maintenance. then you end up with the bottom end going.
Common faults :-
70k fuel pump goes - upgraded pump lasts long time, simple quick fix less than £100
Turbo gaskets - 4hr job - just make sure properly tightened up and change oil and water feeds to flexi's
oil spray bars clogged (poor maintenance) leading to scored cams which then takes out the the bottom end
VVT sproket - pretty random can be expensive
no cambelt as its a chain - very uncommon, but can let go.
coil packs - plenty 2nd hand knocking about
boost leaks - usually due to original wing mounted intercooler
rust starting to become an issue, but no more than any other 12-16 year old car
Edited by sparkyhx on Thursday 9th May 15:23
If this is for a TOY as stated in the OP, then i would go for the 200sx or the skyline
I had an Accord Type-R for 3 years and 70k. AS a daily they were fantastic in 2001. But as a weekend toy in 2013, I would say a bit too ordinary.
Its personal, I also drove 200SX Touring as they were known, back in the day. So for me I would hunt for a good skyline as ive never had one and you can modify to your hearts content
I had an Accord Type-R for 3 years and 70k. AS a daily they were fantastic in 2001. But as a weekend toy in 2013, I would say a bit too ordinary.
Its personal, I also drove 200SX Touring as they were known, back in the day. So for me I would hunt for a good skyline as ive never had one and you can modify to your hearts content
I'm running an S14a 200SX ( w reg) running 286bhp/300lb/ft and its fantastic fun. Insurance is dear with me being 20 but such is life. Epic smiles per mile, mine has some extra bracing, poly usher rear end and nismo s-tune shocks and I great fun.
On a back road the MX5 was as much fun and it is a fairly big car but the steering is fairly direct, power is progressive and the 255 rears on mine help put the power down.
Downside is, lots are being bought thinking " these are cheap, driftio" and abuse them but a solid one is great.
Mine is on 113k miles and is fairly solid
Gtst is a 'step up' bigger car, bigger costs (skyline tax, insurance). I wouldn't want to take one that isn't well sorted down a back road in a hurry but I'd still love one!
On a back road the MX5 was as much fun and it is a fairly big car but the steering is fairly direct, power is progressive and the 255 rears on mine help put the power down.
Downside is, lots are being bought thinking " these are cheap, driftio" and abuse them but a solid one is great.
Mine is on 113k miles and is fairly solid
Gtst is a 'step up' bigger car, bigger costs (skyline tax, insurance). I wouldn't want to take one that isn't well sorted down a back road in a hurry but I'd still love one!
Accord type r's are great I run one lovely under 5k for family trips mega over 5k for fun on your own.
Finding a good one can be hard now and as I have found out to my cost parts can be expensive and hard to come by.
Saying that I will be keeping mine as the last car I had that was this much fun was an jdm dc2
Finding a good one can be hard now and as I have found out to my cost parts can be expensive and hard to come by.
Saying that I will be keeping mine as the last car I had that was this much fun was an jdm dc2
jezhumphrey75 said:
damn so many different opinions, i must admit im swaying towards the 200sx/atr, i think a gtst in my price range will just be a bag of s
t
Money wise its a sound choice. But totally different cars tthe next big question - will you want it to go faster?
- Yes - then it has to be the 200sx
- If you buy the 200sx you WILL want to mod it. In my experience nobody has ever bought a 200sx in the last 10 years and kept it standard.
ATR will keep temptation away.
liner33 said:
All three options are much better built than a Subaru
What do you mean by better built? More chunky and solid feeling interiors etc then I agree (but the impreza is lighter AND awd thanks to lots of lightweight panels and trim) but not when it comes to mechanicals. Imprezas are tough.Edited by rb5er on Monday 13th May 17:36
liner33 said:
What mechanicals are weak on the Rb25 Skyline then ?? But I did mean quality of the parts and general feel
When did I say anything was weak on a skyline?As per my last post, older imprezas are built light by way of fixings and finishings as well as body panels. This is how they manage to be awd and still very lightweight compared to similar cars.
Had my R33 GTST nearing 10 years nows, spent bucket loads on it getting to somewhere close to what I want from it.. Ie, now it handles, stops and goes!
Standard they are just a big heavy GT really, sure the RB25DET rolls it on at a decent enough lick for the 250hp and 215? lbs ft which Nissan gave them. But if you’re after anything much more than that then you really will need to spend out on the car, or of course (as there is always so much choice for sale) buy a reasonable example which someone else has spent out on.
Bar the purchase in the first instant, you know a GTR won’t really cost you more to own than a GTST.. Right?
As for ongoing ownership costs, outside of any upgrading/modifications you decide to add to the car, regular servicing and ongoing maintenance really isn’t much when you consider the age of the car (mines a 1993 build, with me being the only UK owner). Mine is now a second ‘toy car’, it spends some time on track and most of its time for fun days/weekends etc, I don’t really keep a note of it as its not of interest to me but I suppose I do somewhere between 3,000 and 5,000mls annually these days in it.
Though when I brought it initially I used it as a daily for 3 years or so and then covered near 20,000mls annually, granted the car was close to stock specification those years. During this time I added some 40,000mls to the original engine before the bottom-end said good bye, then came a second-hand engine bunged in as it was my daily.
It stopped being my daily about 6 years ago, when the current engine and gearbox (gearbox was necessary after the engine build... the engine broke it!!) where built on a third block, a fairly simple build with forged pistons, std rods, new bearings, rebuilt head, big injectors, hybrid turbo etc etc. About 5 years agao. Was looking for near 400bhp at the time, got 420bhp and 400Ibs ft.
The car goes back on the dyno typically yearly for a health check, and has always pulled much the same bhp and Ibs everytime since. Has been on dynos with RSP, EuroSpec, ReWorx, Surrey Rolling Road.. So I have a spectrum of ‘power runs’ from different facilities and all agree within a close enough margin to make the stated figures believable.
I do the bulk of the servicing unless I am feely lazy then the engine builder does it! Cost of standard service parts (engine oil at least once annually, gbox & diff once, plugs once, fuel filter every other year etc) Budget maybe £250 annually.
Never spent more the about £500 on insurance, even when I first had it in my mid twenties..
I don’t really know what this ‘skyline tax’ is thats spoken about?
My chassis must be in excess of 150,000mls old, this engine & gearbox must be heading on to 18,000mls of age, all running gear (coilovers, ARB’s, bushes, brakes etc) all much younger..
The car as a package is ultra reliable and enjoyable to drive, granted to get there as with any vehicle you can spend thousands making it what you want, I know I have!!
As mentioned earlier on in this thread – “the R33 is getting on now and heading firmly into enthusiast territory rather than daily driver” – That’s a good shout really and certainly something to consider if buying one to keep, there are certaily many stters out there!
A very good friend has run an ATR now for heading on two years, its just tipped over the 100,000mls and I tell you what… It may as well be brand new frankly. A very very capable car, faster than you’d give it credit for and now on new coilover suspension (original OEM kit was tired) handles supremely well.
I guess it comes down to your expectation of a ‘toy car’ versus the available budget you have to hand?
Here my R33 GTST and my mates ATR, this photo ended up in a calender!!
Standard they are just a big heavy GT really, sure the RB25DET rolls it on at a decent enough lick for the 250hp and 215? lbs ft which Nissan gave them. But if you’re after anything much more than that then you really will need to spend out on the car, or of course (as there is always so much choice for sale) buy a reasonable example which someone else has spent out on.
Bar the purchase in the first instant, you know a GTR won’t really cost you more to own than a GTST.. Right?
As for ongoing ownership costs, outside of any upgrading/modifications you decide to add to the car, regular servicing and ongoing maintenance really isn’t much when you consider the age of the car (mines a 1993 build, with me being the only UK owner). Mine is now a second ‘toy car’, it spends some time on track and most of its time for fun days/weekends etc, I don’t really keep a note of it as its not of interest to me but I suppose I do somewhere between 3,000 and 5,000mls annually these days in it.
Though when I brought it initially I used it as a daily for 3 years or so and then covered near 20,000mls annually, granted the car was close to stock specification those years. During this time I added some 40,000mls to the original engine before the bottom-end said good bye, then came a second-hand engine bunged in as it was my daily.
It stopped being my daily about 6 years ago, when the current engine and gearbox (gearbox was necessary after the engine build... the engine broke it!!) where built on a third block, a fairly simple build with forged pistons, std rods, new bearings, rebuilt head, big injectors, hybrid turbo etc etc. About 5 years agao. Was looking for near 400bhp at the time, got 420bhp and 400Ibs ft.
The car goes back on the dyno typically yearly for a health check, and has always pulled much the same bhp and Ibs everytime since. Has been on dynos with RSP, EuroSpec, ReWorx, Surrey Rolling Road.. So I have a spectrum of ‘power runs’ from different facilities and all agree within a close enough margin to make the stated figures believable.
I do the bulk of the servicing unless I am feely lazy then the engine builder does it! Cost of standard service parts (engine oil at least once annually, gbox & diff once, plugs once, fuel filter every other year etc) Budget maybe £250 annually.
Never spent more the about £500 on insurance, even when I first had it in my mid twenties..
I don’t really know what this ‘skyline tax’ is thats spoken about?
My chassis must be in excess of 150,000mls old, this engine & gearbox must be heading on to 18,000mls of age, all running gear (coilovers, ARB’s, bushes, brakes etc) all much younger..
The car as a package is ultra reliable and enjoyable to drive, granted to get there as with any vehicle you can spend thousands making it what you want, I know I have!!
As mentioned earlier on in this thread – “the R33 is getting on now and heading firmly into enthusiast territory rather than daily driver” – That’s a good shout really and certainly something to consider if buying one to keep, there are certaily many s
tters out there!A very good friend has run an ATR now for heading on two years, its just tipped over the 100,000mls and I tell you what… It may as well be brand new frankly. A very very capable car, faster than you’d give it credit for and now on new coilover suspension (original OEM kit was tired) handles supremely well.
I guess it comes down to your expectation of a ‘toy car’ versus the available budget you have to hand?
Here my R33 GTST and my mates ATR, this photo ended up in a calender!!
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