Looking at Estates with oomph

[Skifledanabit]

I'm looking at the high end estates from japan as I need a car with space for camping plus dogs and it HAS to be Jap.

So the choices are;

Mitsubishi Legnum/Galant VR4 - not the prettiest, but certainly looks mean at the front end, breaks down frequently I've heard.

Nissan Stagea - supposedly the nicest interior, manuals are rare (and I prefer manual), insurance is quite good for me.

Subaru Legacy GTB - not much difference in looks to the Stagea (to my eyes anyway), seem to be more common, but not by much, boxer engine.

Toyota Caldina - Looks like an Avensis on steroids... still looks like an Avensis


There are currently 2 legnum VR4s, 1 Stagea (non turbo, therefore out of the running), 8 Legacys and 0 Caldinas in the classifieds, Ebay doesn't show up much else either.

Ideally I want the Stagea, I would take a Legacy in second and then the Legnum if there really is no other choice or unless there is a really good one come up for sale.

So, does anyone know of any for sale, what are your views on them?
Budget is about £3.5k to £4k

Edited by Skifledanabit on Thursday 2nd May 11:35

[The Flying Ox]

Having owned a Legnum, I'd have to advise against it.
Astounding car 90% of the time, but as soon as that gearbox light starts flashing you'll want to drive it into the nearest canal. Obscenely expensive to keep running, stupid service intervals, costly and finickety gearbox.

Goes like stink though, and it's bloody huge inside.

[magpie215]

I used to own a manual Caldina...fantastic car would own one again if I could justify it.

Auto for sale on ebay



http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1997-TOYOTA-CELICA-GT-FO...

[Skifledanabit]

Yeah I've seen that caldina. Still looks like an avensis which, lets be honest, isnt the best looking car in the world.

I have heard a lot of bad stories about the legnum. I know none of these are exactly going to be cheap to run but I am handy with a spanner and have a few friends who are in the trade. If i keep to regular servicing schedules, would it still be more expensive and troublesome than the others? (bearing in mind, my toy is an FC3S)

[Skifledanabit]

Oh, another choice is the smaller Lexus IS300. They seem to be more expensive though.

[wilbo83]

Impress wagon? Can get a fair amount in the back and should be many more in the classifieds

[The Flying Ox]

Heh. I went from the Legnum to a FD3S, and it's been a breath of fresh air.
To be honest, I think there's just too much electronic wizardry going on in the VR4. If you can find one with a manual box then you take away a fair bit of the hassle, and if you're ok at fault-finding on electronics then it's a perfectly reasonable sleeper estate.
The one I had was just too temperamental for me, and none of it was spanner work unfortunately. I'd have been fine with that, but it was gearbox issue here, bad speed sensor there, AYC system errors, etc.

[Skifledanabit]

Ah. No. I hate electronics work. I just cant do it.

Impreza wagon... Well... To be honest. Im not a big fan and i think insurance wouldnt like it. I know its a smaller engine. But its the name and the rep.

[The Flying Ox]

How about a Subaru Forester?
Less likely to get your trousers pulled down by the insurance and they seem to be recommended a lot by the MAMILs over on Singletrackworld. Maybe that's a bad thing though....

[Skifledanabit]

I called my insurance company and they gavr me a great quote for a stagea so for yhose i dont think insurance will be an issue. But as with the 'skyline' name, 'impreza' adds a premium.

The forester isnt really my kind of car. If im going for an estate i really want one with high power and/or a turbo.

[liner33]

As a Skyline lover I have been deeply underwhelmed with Stageas, they arent that fast , no really they arent expect the big Audi's,Merc and BMW diesels to make you look silly while getting at least 10mpg more while doing it

The stock brakes are shocking as well and standard they look dire , Im not saying they cant be made to go quick and look awesome just that the standard package is uninspiring

The Legnum however looks awesome and is so much better out of the box , but as said not cheap to run

[FD3Si]

Forester XT is the one you want, but they aren't subtle, and I suspect will be a bit pricier to insure. They're also **** ugly.

I know several people with Legnums and all say the same as Mr Ox, and all have had nothing but trouble!

Legacy GTB would be my choice, but again, it seems they aren't the most reliable of things.

Lexus is dull and slow, really weedy torqueless engines that drink way too much fuel for the performance they deliver. I'd guess you wouldn't want two cars that do that

[pad58]

Forester STi, maybe. I wouldn't say no.

[RedAndy]

what about the later caldina? (youre looking at ST215). The ST246 is a more fresh looking car.. a bit anonymous, but that's the point. If you do, go for the N-Spec as it's leagues ahead of the standard car.

only drawback is auto only, but it has flappy flaps....

[magpie215]

RedAndy said:

what about the later caldina? (youre looking at ST215). The ST246 is a more fresh looking car.. a bit anonymous, but that's the point. If you do, go for the N-Spec as it's leagues ahead of the standard car.

only drawback is auto only, but it has flappy flaps....

[digger the goat]

liner33 is right !!

If you want a fast Jap car at 3.5K get whatever you want....

Just dont expect to keep up with a new BMW 330 diesel !! or Audi or ..............!!!!!!!!!

[MagicShroom]

id rather shove a legnum around than drive a stagea or that toyota thing . go with the legnum or the legacy

[Skifledanabit]

I cant find a newer caldina for sale anywhere, let alone seen one.

Being part of a jap club means i need to drive jap really. The RX7 will be the beemer beater when its done.

I think its really a choice between the Legnum or the Legacy as the stageas currently around for sale arent in very good condition. There are a few legacys but very few legnums.

I have a 2005 fiesta zetec s to swap/px (money either way) for one too.

[GravelBen]

FD3Si said:

Legacy GTB would be my choice, but again, it seems they aren't the most reliable of things.

Mine has been solid as anything over the 4 or 5 years I've had it, the only thing to fail was a MAP sensor which reduced boost until I replaced it with a second hand one for $40 . Usually averages 25-26mpg, does 30-32 on a run. Steering is a bit on the light side, everything else about it is great. Longest I've ever kept the same car for.

Older/more tired ones can have an annoying flat spot (known as the valley of death) around 4k rpm as the turbos change from primary to parallel but it really isn't an issue with mine (2002).

I don't know what prices are like where you are, but the Gen4 Legacy GTB is even better if you can find one, single twinscroll turbo instead of the twins.

Stageas are nice enough too, some high spec ones with leather etc have nicer interiors than the Legacy but others don't. Fair bit bigger, 200kg heavier and IMO not as good to drive either - more of a cruiser. My dad had a 2.5NA VVT Stagea (210bhp IIRC) which was a lot thirstier than my GTB as well as being a fair bit slower.

VR4's - haven't actually driven one but like everyone else heard far too many horror stories from former owners to consider owning one myself.

Caldina GT-T - couple of mates have had auto ones which were very thirsty and not that quick. Manual should be better if you can find one, be interesting to compare.

Edited by GravelBen on Sunday 5th May 13:46

[fluffnik]

GravelBen said:

VR4's - haven't actually driven one but like everyone else heard far too many horror stories from former owners to consider owning one myself.

They're a hoot! The way the AYC tucks the whole car in is spooky...

The biggest single problem is that Dexron ATF kills the gearbox in short order; they need frequent doses of the correct exotic fluids to keep them happy.

My current B10 is a better car in every way but it doesn't make me grin like the Legnum did.