Toyota Celica 190 VVLTI
Discussion
Just been thinking how dirt cheap these cars are. Are they any good to own? I mean £1500 for an early one would appear to buy a very modern good looking and reliable motor? I remember driving a Corrolla T Sport with the same engine and bemoaning the lack of torque but it did shift. Reading through an old EVO yesterday they raved about the handling and it beat a GTI-6 in several disciplines such as outright grip, slalom test, lap time and straightline speed (obviously). So people what do you think?
£1500 for a 190 is going to be a Munter , but I think gen7 celicas are value for money, just picked up a very nice 2 owner 44k mile 140 for not a lot more than the figure you suggest.
To me it provides a nice contrast to my E39 525i, they handle very well for FWD , no wheel spinning dramas pulling away, reasonably refined on the motorway, nimble on the a and b roads
To me it provides a nice contrast to my E39 525i, they handle very well for FWD , no wheel spinning dramas pulling away, reasonably refined on the motorway, nimble on the a and b roads
Def go for the facelift model. 03 onwards. Different front bumper, rear lights and two tone leather interior. Most importantly it has the stronger engine. I've had a 52 plate for 4 years but bottom end gave up last year. Now it's has a recon 06 engine. Old engine collapsed at 106k miles but was always having to check and top up oil. Sometimes 1/2 litre a month. New engine has done 8k now and other than 2 oil swaps hasn't needed topping up at all.
Handling wise it's been very good. Never caught me by surprise, but with correct tyres has a great amount of grip. Just replacing the clutch ( not bad after 114k ) and im putting it up for sale. Got a new toy and can't keep both ( so I'm told most days by the misses anyway) would love to keep it tho lol
Handling wise it's been very good. Never caught me by surprise, but with correct tyres has a great amount of grip. Just replacing the clutch ( not bad after 114k ) and im putting it up for sale. Got a new toy and can't keep both ( so I'm told most days by the misses anyway) would love to keep it tho lol
The 190 version is generally reliable if its been looked after.
Unlike the early models fitted with the low power 1ZZFE (140bhp) engine that suffered oil burning issues in the pre 03 models.
I had a 2000 model 140 though and in nearly 80'000 miles it never missed a beat.
The 2ZZGE engines fitted to the 190 / T Sport & GT models is fairly bullet proof though and only known issues is broken lift bolts that majority should have been sorted under warranty and only cost a couple of £ to fix.
Like anything though some have had other things gowrong but generally they are the exception.
They do handle well for a FWD car - especially if on a set of Tein coilovers like mine was.
Downsides - well the build quality when compared against previous generation celicas is no way near as good or robust and despite being more modern inside you can tell its been built to less exacting standards.
There is also a rare TRD sports M model - think 1200 were made - that came with a bespoke interior and chassis upgrades and some had a blueprinted engine.
JDM market also offered cars with superstrut suspension unlike UK cars.
Good cars - try one before buying a celica GT4 instead
Unlike the early models fitted with the low power 1ZZFE (140bhp) engine that suffered oil burning issues in the pre 03 models.
I had a 2000 model 140 though and in nearly 80'000 miles it never missed a beat.
The 2ZZGE engines fitted to the 190 / T Sport & GT models is fairly bullet proof though and only known issues is broken lift bolts that majority should have been sorted under warranty and only cost a couple of £ to fix.
Like anything though some have had other things gowrong but generally they are the exception.
They do handle well for a FWD car - especially if on a set of Tein coilovers like mine was.
Downsides - well the build quality when compared against previous generation celicas is no way near as good or robust and despite being more modern inside you can tell its been built to less exacting standards.
There is also a rare TRD sports M model - think 1200 were made - that came with a bespoke interior and chassis upgrades and some had a blueprinted engine.
JDM market also offered cars with superstrut suspension unlike UK cars.
Good cars - try one before buying a celica GT4 instead
I've got a 51 plate 190 with 131,000 miles on it! Still going strong and very well put together (if a little cheap on the interior plastics). I love it.
I previously had a 140 from new which was a lovely car but definitely felt lacking in 'oomph'.
They are an absolute bargain and a really good car to drive - Screaming up to 8,200RPM is amazing and the go kart handling is faultless.
Buy one, you'll love it!!
I previously had a 140 from new which was a lovely car but definitely felt lacking in 'oomph'.
They are an absolute bargain and a really good car to drive - Screaming up to 8,200RPM is amazing and the go kart handling is faultless.
Buy one, you'll love it!!
Epic bump.
I find myself lusting after a 190 at the moment. Currently shedding in an Avensis but really would like something more PH, without turning my back on the jap stable.
Did the 190s EVER have oil burning issues? I've never truly believed the line about oil burning not being an issue post 2003, as I had a 2005 Avensis that used as much oil as unleaded.
Anything else worthy of note?
I find myself lusting after a 190 at the moment. Currently shedding in an Avensis but really would like something more PH, without turning my back on the jap stable.
Did the 190s EVER have oil burning issues? I've never truly believed the line about oil burning not being an issue post 2003, as I had a 2005 Avensis that used as much oil as unleaded.
Anything else worthy of note?
Epic bumping indeed.
The 1zz (140bhp) underwent a lot of changes in the 2003 facelift (I speak as a 1zz MR2 owner) and this did cure the problems with oil burning, which also helped the problems of pre-cat disintegration and oval bore.
The 2zz (190bhp) didn't require such improvements and has remained the same unit throughout for the most part. I'm not sure if the 190 celica had a 6 speed box from the off, but the 2003 facelift upped the MR2 from 5 to 6, a handy improvement.
You do have to rev these to get the most from them, the torque curve is barely any different between the 140 and the 190, the extra 50 horses come at the top of the rev range. The VVTi crossover isn't anywhere near as pronounced as Honda's VTEC and opinion is split whether this is a good thing or not.
I think these are very appealing little motors, comfortable place to be although interior quality can be a little on the low side, I just turn the music up.
The 1zz (140bhp) underwent a lot of changes in the 2003 facelift (I speak as a 1zz MR2 owner) and this did cure the problems with oil burning, which also helped the problems of pre-cat disintegration and oval bore.
The 2zz (190bhp) didn't require such improvements and has remained the same unit throughout for the most part. I'm not sure if the 190 celica had a 6 speed box from the off, but the 2003 facelift upped the MR2 from 5 to 6, a handy improvement.
You do have to rev these to get the most from them, the torque curve is barely any different between the 140 and the 190, the extra 50 horses come at the top of the rev range. The VVTi crossover isn't anywhere near as pronounced as Honda's VTEC and opinion is split whether this is a good thing or not.
I think these are very appealing little motors, comfortable place to be although interior quality can be a little on the low side, I just turn the music up.
randomman said:
The VVTi crossover isn't anywhere near as pronounced as Honda's VTEC and opinion is split whether this is a good thing or not.
Maybe compared to the earlier VTEC versions, but the Honda K20A joins the two torque curves much more smoothly. I've got the Toyota engine in my Elise, previously owned a Civic Type-R, and I have to say that the Honda engine is a much better implementation. The Toyota engine is fine in a light car, but I'm not sure I'd like it much in something heavier. Too on/off, even compared to the Civic.The Celica has been an absolute no go since ever as I have three children. However, I now have the most wonderful piece of Jap on the drive in the form of an imported Granvia, so we can use that for when we're "5 up". Most of the time it's just me, or me and the kids on the school run.
They now look like an absolute no brainer. MPG day to day looks to be within 1mpg of my Avensis (important when you do 35k a year) so looks like I'm going to have to get a drive in one.
They now look like an absolute no brainer. MPG day to day looks to be within 1mpg of my Avensis (important when you do 35k a year) so looks like I'm going to have to get a drive in one.
Was looking for a fun NA car after I sold my mr2 turbo. The 190 celica is a very good car to drive, well put together and very reliable. Seriously doubt you would want a celica for £1500 as that would be an absolute dog. For a decent facelift celica you would be looking at civic type r money which is the better car in every way except for looks imo.
I own a Y-reg 190 with 140k miles on the clock 40,000 of those miles are mine and I can hand on heart say it hasn't missed a beat.
Sailed through three MOTs and the only parts it's needed have been consumeables. The early 140s do have their issues but from what I've seen, even the early 2ZZ-GE engined cars are as reliable as they come.
It's also great fun to drive. Obviously it's not s
t-yourself fast but if you keep the revs up it zips along very nicely and the cam lift at 6,000rpm is a hoot.
I've found it does need to be on properly good tyres or the grip is fairly crap. When I first bought the car it was on Avons. Now I've got in on Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2s and the difference, especially with turn-in bite, is pretty huge.
Plus it returns 40mpg on the motorway
40,000 of those miles are mine and I can hand on heart say it hasn't missed a beat.Sailed through three MOTs and the only parts it's needed have been consumeables. The early 140s do have their issues but from what I've seen, even the early 2ZZ-GE engined cars are as reliable as they come.
It's also great fun to drive. Obviously it's not s
t-yourself fast but if you keep the revs up it zips along very nicely and the cam lift at 6,000rpm is a hoot. I've found it does need to be on properly good tyres or the grip is fairly crap. When I first bought the car it was on Avons. Now I've got in on Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2s and the difference, especially with turn-in bite, is pretty huge.
Plus it returns 40mpg on the motorway
Just bumping this thread for people's thoughts. I nearly bought one of these 7 years ago and they've always been on my radar as a potential fun, reliable and modern alternative classic. I say alternative, because despite the manic high revving engine, these never seem to have received much attention in motoring mag circles (I may be wrong, but can't remember modern classics ever featuring one during its 5 year run) and therefore it seems prices remain very low compared with everything else. I found two at £2K or below online just now and neither appeared to be (from the ad) a complete dog needing loads of attention. Even the most expensive one was only £3995. Compare that with a Clio 182 or EP3 Civic Type, which seem to have appreciated quite a bit in the past few years, certainly post Covid. Anyone still got one? Still enjoying it? Do they rust badly as they age (like the Hondas) ?? Just wondering if this car will ever become an appreciating classic. Seems odd in a way that it isn't because a) its a Toyota and with the GR brand performing a halo effect just now, Toyota are cool again and b) that engine is one of the last n/a screamers available. I believe its even more rev happy than Hondas offerings of the same era. Cheers.
Can't comment on the 190, but I've owned a 2004 140 Celica for nearly 10 years now (along with a 2004 MR2). Photo in my profile - although the Celica has been mostly 'de-modified' now with different wheels, headlights and standard springs.
Up until a couple of years ago, they were both on the road and I alternated between them as my daily driver (doing a 30 mile round trip commute each day). For the first few years of ownership, I did twice weekly trips of 125 miles - my home was in Wales but I was still working in Bristol, so lived there during the week.
I then got a job more locally (but still a 30 mile round trip commute). When COVID hit, I did a mixture of working from home and office, which has continued for now, so I'm not commuting so much.
Both cars have been really reliable. They have needed the usual consumables (tyres, brake parts, suspension parts, etc) and the MR2 has needed a new catalytic converter and O2 sensors, but nothing else major in terms of parts that I can recall. I am lucky that my OH is very capable, and he has done quite a bit of welding on the underneath of both cars (unfortunately, I am unable to keep them under cover, and the weather is not always great here!)
Bodywork wise, the Celica is pretty tidy for its age, and doesn't have massively high mileage. It was off the road for an extended period waiting for the welding work and there were times I wondered whether it was worth keeping, but the truth is there is just something about it. My OH agrees. I just love driving it and can't envisage getting rid of it anytime soon.
Up until a couple of years ago, they were both on the road and I alternated between them as my daily driver (doing a 30 mile round trip commute each day). For the first few years of ownership, I did twice weekly trips of 125 miles - my home was in Wales but I was still working in Bristol, so lived there during the week.
I then got a job more locally (but still a 30 mile round trip commute). When COVID hit, I did a mixture of working from home and office, which has continued for now, so I'm not commuting so much.
Both cars have been really reliable. They have needed the usual consumables (tyres, brake parts, suspension parts, etc) and the MR2 has needed a new catalytic converter and O2 sensors, but nothing else major in terms of parts that I can recall. I am lucky that my OH is very capable, and he has done quite a bit of welding on the underneath of both cars (unfortunately, I am unable to keep them under cover, and the weather is not always great here!)
Bodywork wise, the Celica is pretty tidy for its age, and doesn't have massively high mileage. It was off the road for an extended period waiting for the welding work and there were times I wondered whether it was worth keeping, but the truth is there is just something about it. My OH agrees. I just love driving it and can't envisage getting rid of it anytime soon.
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