Which EVO to go for

[Geo22]

Hi All, i am thinking about buying an Mitisubishi EVO for a weekend car and to use for some track days but i can't decided which 1 to go for any ideas?

I'm also open to other ideas but i think i want to stick to Jap cars though.

[mrmr96]

What's your budget?
Do you plan to mod it?
Why are you asking here not on www.lancerregister.com?
Would you prefer a "comfortable" or "raw" car?
Do you want to buy standard or modified?

[rhinochopig]

If you want a track car, buy an MX5 or S1 MR2 (staying with the jap theme) If you want a weekend toy get a V or VI if on a budget, or a VII, VIII or IX if funds permit. They got progressively better with addition of SAYC on the VIII and the MIVEC heads on the IX.

Personally I'd opt for a IX GT or RS if I had the funds. That said, I have a VII RS, and spent the difference on expensive dampers, and grp-n electronics, and getting it set up properly for b road use.

BUT you would be better with a cheaper car for each role based on my experience - hence the V or VI recommendation and the MR2 / MX5. Evo's do not make a great track car and they cost a fortune to run on track.

Personally I'd get a seven type kit car for the track, and a V or VI for the weekend.

[Geo22]

I already have a Proton Satria GTI that i use as a track car which is great but i want more power and also something a bit nicer than old MX-5. My Mrs also has a MK3 MR2 that i get to play in but again i want something with more power.

I have £5000-£10000 to spend so i think i can find a car that would be suitable for both track and road. the Proton i have is stripped out...etc so it's not great for any trips over an hour. A 7 type kit car is also an idea but again the cars like that are great from driving but not much else.

I'm not intending to do a lot of track days with it so replacing brake pads/discs...ect isn't to much a worry for me. It's more for a weekend toy so i want something with some comfort but not bothered about to many toys.

[chuntington101]

mrmr96 said:

What's your budget?
Do you plan to mod it?
Why are you asking here not on www.lancerregister.com?
Would you prefer a "comfortable" or "raw" car?
Do you want to buy standard or modified?

I would like to add..... well ermm nothing to that! lol Very well put mrmr96.

[Geo22]

What's your budget? - £5000-£10000
Do you plan to mod it? - maybe but nothing to over the top
Why are you asking here not on www.lancerregister.com? - wanted some unbiased views(they will all love Evo's)
Would you prefer a "comfortable" or "raw" car? - some where in the middle
Do you want to buy standard or modified? - don't mind but i will want to keep it for a while so i don't want it to be to highly strung and break down all the time and no stupid body kits or cheap boy raceer bits!

[Robb F]

You'd better get friendly with your local tyre shop, and take a set of spare discs and pad to each track day (slight exaggeration of course).

Evi are very heavy and not made for track day stresses. They are B road gods but that means squat on a track.

[mrmr96]

To be fair, the thread title says "which Evo to go for" but then the first post also asks about other cars. If you want an answer to the 2nd question then PH is a good resource, but if you purely want advice on which Evo then there will be no shortage of opinions on lancerregister.com

[Geo22]

I only asked about other cars as a side note I am 90% sure i want an Evo. As i said not that bothered about tyres, brake pads....etc as i will only be doing maybe 5 track days a year.

just wanted a few peoples views on which Evo they would go for.

[mrmr96]

Geo22 said:

What's your budget? - £5000-£10000
Do you plan to mod it? - maybe but nothing to over the top
Why are you asking here not on www.lancerregister.com? - wanted some unbiased views(they will all love Evo's)
Would you prefer a "comfortable" or "raw" car? - some where in the middle
Do you want to buy standard or modified? - don't mind but i will want to keep it for a while so i don't want it to be to highly strung and break down all the time and no stupid body kits or cheap boy raceer bits!

You'll get a decent 5 or 6 for that budget, but they are much more raw than the 789's. I test drove a 6 and it was too hardcore for me when I bought my 8, as I wanted to use it daily. The inside of the 56 is very dated, the 789 is a bit basic but the design is ok (not german luxury of course, but that's not what the car's about) but it's a big step from the 56 imo.

All 5's and 6's are grey imports. 789's were available as official imports and therefore class as UK cars for insurance. However they don't have EU whole type approval, which is why they are SVA'd on arrival to the UK and get a fog light fitted. (the exception is the 8 260 which is EU approved, but slow!). If you want to mod then an 8 260 is a decent place to start as you'll change the cams, turbo, exhaust etc) but if you don't want to mod then go for one of the other versions which already have some upgrades.

A decent 7 or 8 will be available near the top of your budget, but you'd struggle to get a 9 I think. The 8's are more common than 7's and will be that bit newer. If you go for something like an 8 MR (comes with MR spec cams and turbo) then with a 3in cat back, remap, 3 port boost solenoid and fuel pump (stage 1 basically) you should be able to get about 380bhp from it reliably. Much more than that and you'll be needing cams as well to get about 400, then over 400 you'll want forged rods/pistons and it gets MUCH more expensive.

I reckon spend 8-10k on an 8MR and then do stage 1 mods when funds allow, or indeed buy a stage 1 car, and you'll have a car you can drive daily with (hopefully) decent reliability and about 380bhp.

[rhinochopig]

That budget puts you into very good condition V or VI territory with some choice mods. It will also get you a good VII or VIII GSR. It may get you a VII RS too.

Now whilst I'm an owner I'm certainly not a fan boy WRT the Evo. I'll try to be un-biased with my summary of pros and cons.

Pros

Proper 4 seater car that is staggeringly capable down a b road in all weathers (depending on tyre choice). Not bad on track

Great fiddlers car - lots you can do to them, and you can make big power if you wish.

Cheap purchase cost

Lots of specialists - avoid main dealers who typically are clueless with these cars. Good friendly community, although Scooby vs Evo arguments are simply tiresome. You'll also find lots of idiot owners who start 'I had a race with an xx last night' threads.

Laugh out loud fun at times.

Cons

Can be quite fragile despite what the MLR members will tell you. AYC is a ticking bomb and WILL fail at some point. Even using the experts it can be a painful experience trying to fix it - I speak from painful personal experience on this. I almost had to become an expert in AYC myself to get it fixed.

Very very thirsty when driven hard and they prefer 99 which can be a pain to source.

Likes tyres, pads, and discs. Service intervals.

Lots have been unsympathetically modified. Lots of unscrupulous sellers.

Do not buy one with cheap coil overs, or that's been lowered. It ruins the handling. Avoid 18 inch wheels unless they're very expensive light weight alloys swapped to fit over big discs. They handle much better on the standard 17s.

They have a very chavy image.

Dynamically they are a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut. I've spent a lot of time and money on mine making mine handle and, whilst a massive improvement over standard, it's still a bit one dimensional in the way that all turbo 4WD cars are. Put it this way, I know an ex-works Mitsi driver, and his toy to tick the fun road and track car is a Cayman.

Not great on track IME. They're good for a big heavy saloon car, but you'll have much more fun in a light RWD car IMO. Set them up for track and it kills off their road usability.

Can and do catch out the novice drivers. They flatter the driver and facilitate some very very high road speeds, but once the limit is exceeded at the speed you're likely to be travelling at, you'll have to be very quick to catch it.

The fact the car has to be going pretty fast to come alive is also a negative to me - one of the reasons why I opted for the RS model which has zero sound insulation so is a more visceral car to drive.

Big power cars are typically compromised in their road manners. Big turbos increase spool up and rob the car of the ability to steer it on the throttle as much; and that's not one of their strong points anyway. That said if straight line acceleration is your thing

---

I've put a lot of negatives down, and I wouldn't have another, but they are on the 'petrolhead have to own at least once' list. And as they say, it's better to go into a deal with your eyes open.

Edited by rhinochopig on Tuesday 17th January 13:20

[mrmr96]

Geo22 said:

I only asked about other cars as a side note I am 90% sure i want an Evo. As i said not that bothered about tyres, brake pads....etc as i will only be doing maybe 5 track days a year.

just wanted a few peoples views on which Evo they would go for.

Sorry, missed the bit about trackdays.

As I'm sure you're aware they are "light for their size" having alu body panels etc, but they are still a big car compared to an MX5 or caterham or lotus. So the on track fuel ecnomony is like 8mpg, and they get through tyres and brake pads like no body's business!

I found that the first weak point on track was the brakes, which will overheat and fade. You can combat this with decent fluid, decent pads, braided lines or indeed a big brake upgrade. Next weak point will be the oil temp, so get a more effcient oil cooler. After that, probably tyres. But the Evos' standard 235/45/17 wheel/tyres will allow you to fit ex touring car slicks, for c£30/corner which helps reduce the trackday cost a bit vs trashing road tyres. Spare wheels can be had for £100/set if you're patient.

Great fun on track IMO, I love the grip and the power. However they do understeer as standard, so you'll need a full geo setup with a track bias to make the most of it on track and eliminate that understeer. The MR will come with bilstein non-adjustable suspension, which is still better than the stock non-MR stuff. But you may want to look at adjustable top mounts and/or coil overs to allow a more track bias setup than is possible with stock components.

If you don't mind an older car, and want something more hardcore, then get a 6 and spend the money saved on track related mods.
But if you want a bit more refinement and a more modern car (with less money for mods) then get the 8MR.

All IMO of course!

[appletonn]

Robb F said:

You'd better get friendly with your local tyre shop, and take a set of spare discs and pad to each track day (slight exaggeration of course).

Evi are very heavy and not made for track day stresses. They are B road gods but that means squat on a track.

Your comment about them not being made for trackday stresses rather surprises me as I thought they were essentially a homologation special rally car for the road?

[Robb F]

Geo22 said:

I only asked about other cars as a side note I am 90% sure i want an Evo. As i said not that bothered about tyres, brake pads....etc as i will only be doing maybe 5 track days a year.

just wanted a few peoples views on which Evo they would go for.

Fair play.

For the weekend then, I would personally choose an VIII FQ-320

[rhinochopig]

appletonn said:

Robb F said:

You'd better get friendly with your local tyre shop, and take a set of spare discs and pad to each track day (slight exaggeration of course).

Evi are very heavy and not made for track day stresses. They are B road gods but that means squat on a track.

Your comment about them not being made for trackday stresses rather surprises me as I thought they were essentially a homologation special rally car for the road?

The group N car - the RS model - as it leaves the factory is very different to what you'll see on a stage rally. The old Grp- A cars were almost unrecognisable - lots of fiddling going on.

The base RS car came on 16 inch wheels, with 'gravel spec' brakes, and a taxi interior, but with a supposedly tougher faster spooling turbo (basically better materials for the turbine eg Ti / inconel as opposed to ally).

An N car would be caged, all the suspension stripped off, the diffs, top mounts, etc. and all would be replaced with ralliart homologated items - typically same pattern as the road car but with higher shore rated bushes etc. The brakes would be replaced, as would the hoses, etc. and the wheels. The interior would be junked and replaced with FIA approved seats and harnesses. The dash would be stripped out and rally gauges slotted in, flocked, and the steering wheel would be junked. Depending on the event, the engine ECU would be junked and replaced by the Ralliart version and the ALS would be enabled. The ACD/AYC ecu would also be junked in favour of the specific gravel or tarmac controller.

The other thing to consider as well is that tarmac and gravel rallys place very different stress loadings on a car than on a circuit. Time at full throttle is less, lateral g loadings are much less, which is easier on the main bearings for example.

And to cap all that off, a lot of the grp n cars would have had the engine, boxes, and diffs blue-printed to ensure they are absolutely within tolerances.

I've probably missed off some stuff but you can see there are quite a few differences. Now when you get into the world of grp A, where stretching wing panels was not unheard of....

ETA and the dampers were also typically binned and replaced.

[appletonn]

rhinochopig said:

The group N car - the RS model - as it leaves the factory is very different to what you'll see on a stage rally. The old Grp- A cars were almost unrecognisable - lots of fiddling going on.

The base RS car came on 16 inch wheels, with 'gravel spec' brakes, and a taxi interior, but with a supposedly tougher faster spooling turbo (basically better materials for the turbine eg Ti / inconel as opposed to ally).

An N car would be caged, all the suspension stripped off, the diffs, top mounts, etc. and all would be replaced with ralliart homologated items - typically same pattern as the road car but with higher shore rated bushes etc. The brakes would be replaced, as would the hoses, etc. and the wheels. The interior would be junked and replaced with FIA approved seats and harnesses. The dash would be stripped out and rally gauges slotted in, flocked, and the steering wheel would be junked. Depending on the event, the engine ECU would be junked and replaced by the Ralliart version and the ALS would be enabled. The ACD/AYC ecu would also be junked in favour of the specific gravel or tarmac controller.

The other thing to consider as well is that tarmac and gravel rallys place very different stress loadings on a car than on a circuit. Time at full throttle is less, lateral g loadings are much less, which is easier on the main bearings for example.

And to cap all that off, a lot of the grp n cars would have had the engine, boxes, and diffs blue-printed to ensure they are absolutely within tolerances.

I've probably missed off some stuff but you can see there are quite a few differences. Now when you get into the world of grp A, where stretching wing panels was not unheard of....

ETA and the dampers were also typically binned and replaced.

I understand the difference bewteen an actual rally car and the version that is homolagted as a road car, it was more that fact that standard road-going Evo wouldn't be able to cope with a few trackdays, whereas a Renault Clio Cup or standard Lotus Elise, 911 GT3 etc would be relatively at home on a circuit, up to a point.

I guess the Evos are not as tough and hardcore as I had previously imagined!

[Geo22]

thanks for the help guys,

i think i am going to going to look at the older models 5 or 6 seems to be what i want. Something a bit roar but not to much. Plus i prefer the styling of the older cars


correct me if i'm wrong but would a good 5 hold it's value a bit better than say a 7 or 8?

[mrmr96]

rhinochopig said:

The ACD/AYC ecu would also be junked in favour of the specific gravel or tarmac controller.

Good post. One minor point of order, though, is that you've forgotten that the RS models don't come with an AYC diff, they just have a normal limited slip rear diff.

[mrmr96]

Geo22 said:

thanks for the help guys,

i think i am going to going to look at the older models 5 or 6 seems to be what i want. Something a bit roar but not to much. Plus i prefer the styling of the older cars


correct me if i'm wrong but would a good 5 hold it's value a bit better than say a 7 or 8?

I'd expect the 5 has done most of it's depreciation now whereas the 7 & 8 have a bit more to do.

Get one in good nick if you can. Now that Mitsi's not making Evo's any more they will become more sought after as numbers dwindle.

[rhinochopig]

mrmr96 said:

rhinochopig said:

The ACD/AYC ecu would also be junked in favour of the specific gravel or tarmac controller.

Good post. One minor point of order, though, is that you've forgotten that the RS models don't come with an AYC diff, they just have a normal limited slip rear diff.

Not quite true. They came with whatever was spec'd by the customer. The RS models could be spec'd thus:

mech front, mech CD, mech rear.
mech front, ACD, mech rear.
mech front ACD, AYC rear.

Mine is an VII RS but came spec'd with the following from the factory:

Brembos
AirCon
ACD
AYC.

Almost to GSR spec. Effectively you could order an RS to GSR spec but AFAIK you couldn't ask for central locking, sound deadening, rear wiper.

To which I added the ralliart grp-n ACD/AYC ecu which runs the pump at a higher pressure and give a much faster and aggressive diff response.

I *think* the 'mech rear diff can cope with more power than the AYC diff which is why it is a common swap, but despite what you read on the MLR about the purity of the drive, the AYC equipped cars are actually quicker on tarmac than the mech equipped cars, especially when paired with the RA grp N ACD controllers. These offer a more predictable response than the normal ACD ECU but it does make the car more twitchy - which I prefer anyway coming from a BEC westy.

There's an interesting video on Youtube comparing an 'standard' RS with mech rear, a Japanese domestic rally car (with no AYC) and a Japanese domestic touring car (time attack type thing) with AYC. I'll see if I can find it. ETA 17 mins in for the conclusion, but worth watching the lot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YJ-9GE0Re0 Skip to about 6 or 7 minutes for the direct comparison of the three cars. Interestingly the RS tested was fitted with AYC.

Edited by rhinochopig on Tuesday 17th January 15:21