Next step for a Subaru

[edar]

I'm looking to give my Impreza (2003 WRX Wagon) a little more power and not sure what else to do to it. I've already fited a K+N panel filter and had it re-mapped (about 20 horsepower) Some one has advised fitting a bigger turbo and changing the fuel filter, but is there anything I can do without fitting these?

I would appreciate any suggestions and be interested to hear what else owners have done to thier Impreza's.

[ScoobieWRX]

edar said:

I'm looking to give my Impreza (2003 WRX Wagon) a little more power and not sure what else to do to it. I've already fited a K+N panel filter and had it re-mapped (about 20 horsepower) Some one has advised fitting a bigger turbo and changing the fuel filter, but is there anything I can do without fitting these?

I would appreciate any suggestions and be interested to hear what else owners have done to thier Impreza's.

I hope you didn't pay much for the remap. A 20bhp increase isn't worth the cost of a full custom remap lol...

You need to do exhaust mods.

Decat uppipe (before the turbo), get rid of the Scrubber cat (after the main cat in the downpipe), just keeping the main cat in place will get you through emissions testing come MOT time unless you have a friendly MOT centre in which case a full decat system is the way. Then a decent remap shoulld unlock 270-280 bhp from the standard turbo and injectors.

Then your remap is worth paying money for.


When you want more than 280bhp is the time to do turbo and injector mods, plus another remap.

[PHuzzy]

Sorry for the hijack but I'm after a similar request, mine's an 03 WRX with PPP and I'm after just a little more power and noise, I'm tempted by a full decat whilst retaining the Prodrive back box if possible.
I'm after a rough price on the decatting, remap (ecutek?) and any other bits that may need doing?
Thanks in advance.

[Mastodon2]

PHuzzy said:

Sorry for the hijack but I'm after a similar request, mine's an 03 WRX with PPP and I'm after just a little more power and noise, I'm tempted by a full decat whilst retaining the Prodrive back box if possible.
I'm after a rough price on the decatting, remap (ecutek?) and any other bits that may need doing?
Thanks in advance.

As mentioned there are two cats in an Impreza, for a full decat you need to remove the one in the downpipe and the main cat under the car. An exhaust fabricator will probably charge about £150 to build and fit a custom made decat section, and while the main cat is off he might be able to remove the cat in the downpipe at that time, possibly for no extra cost.

Alternatively, you could look into buying a full decat exhaust manifold. This will replace the current manifold, downpipe and cat section and hook up the B pipe of the exhaust. I don't know what these go for on Imprezas, but on a Civic Type R they go from £180 to about £600 with a few very high quality items breaking the £1000 mark! Shop around online and see what is available. IIRC, Borla made manifolds for the classic Imprezas that were a very popular mod and make the ultimate boxer-burble noise. This option (a full aftermarket manifold) will give you less restriction on gas flow out of the car and allow for more power. However, it's a pain to fit and something that you don't want to keep taking on and off so make sure you have a friendly MOT tester before hand.

If you are worried about the MOT thing, a decat section is the best option as it can just be quickly removed, cat goes on, MOT passed, decat pipe goes back on, no worries.

As for the Prodrive backbox, I don't rate it myself, frankly I think it's one of the worst aftermarket Impreza exhausts I've heard, but if you want to keep it on for the sake of maintaining the cars PPP status then fair enough.

For remap costs, again I am not sure about Imprezas but when I had my Cupra R I was up to date with the VAG market, cheap remaps were about £180 and the maps from the highly regarded VAG tuner REVO were about £500. They are expensive because they get so much testing and tweaking by people who really know their stuff. Cheap, poor maps can really bugger a car up and make it a pain in the arse to drive so do your reading on who does the best ones for Imprezas!

Edited by Mastodon2 on Saturday 17th December 23:15

[PHuzzy]

Thanks for that, the reason for wanting to keep the Prodrive backbox is purely aesthetic, I'm not really into the massive look which seems to accompany most other aftermarket systems.
Regarding remaps, what's the deal with it bring a PPP job? I've read about open source and then ecutek? I'm just a bit overwhelmed by the companies offering remapping with the Impreza, my ex missus was the daughter of the bloke who co owns REVO so I know they have a good reputation, the Impreza just seems to have a massive number of options with how to remap it? Which way do I need to go with it, at a fairly minimal cost but yet a good, reliable map?
Thanks.

[ScoobieWRX]

There are 3 cats on a 2ltr newage WRX. Uppipe(precat), downpipe(main cat) and end of the downpipe (scrubber cat), STi's have 2, one in the downpipe and another at the end of that.

Open source remap from a reputable tuner will cost from £350-£395+vat. Ecutek remap will be £550-£650+vat.

Whichever tuner you go with, if they aren't charging vat they're not busy enough. Unfortunately some of us have to charge vat

ETA: There's nothing wrong with Prodrive hardware, it's all pretty good quality. Not all scooby owners are into dustbin lid size systems running at 120db

Edited by ScoobieWRX on Sunday 18th December 00:46

[Mastodon2]

ScoobieWRX said:

ETA: There's nothing wrong with Prodrive hardware, it's all pretty good quality. Not all scooby owners are into dustbin lid size systems running at 120db

Edited by ScoobieWRX on Sunday 18th December 00:46

Oh it's a good quality item no doubt, I just think it makes the car sound a bit flat and lifeless. Changing the same cars over to Blitz Nur Spec and Apexi N1s made a world of difference in tonal quality.

[ScoobieWRX]

You've got to live with it daily and your neighbours too, especially at the crack of dawn on a cold and frosty morning.

Prodrive backbox won't give bib a good excuse to keep pulling you over either

[paulmoonraker]

Mastodon2 said:

As for the Prodrive backbox, I don't rate it myself, frankly I think it's one of the worst aftermarket Impreza exhausts I've heard, but if you want to keep it on for the sake of maintaining the cars PPP status then fair enough.

Don't agree at all. Its perfect if you don't want a loud exhaust, but do want some noise when booting it. You can up the sound level a bit by taking the resonator out.

I am fairly qualified on this topic as I think I have had just about every exhaust set-up available (Standard, Prodrive, Ninja 2, Afterburner Vortex, Blitz Nur Spec R)

Edited by paulmoonraker on Sunday 18th December 09:25

[paulmoonraker]

Mastodon2 said:

ScoobieWRX said:

ETA: There's nothing wrong with Prodrive hardware, it's all pretty good quality. Not all scooby owners are into dustbin lid size systems running at 120db

Edited by ScoobieWRX on Sunday 18th December 00:46

Oh it's a good quality item no doubt, I just think it makes the car sound a bit flat and lifeless. Changing the same cars over to Blitz Nur Spec and Apexi N1s made a world of difference in tonal quality.

Don't underestimate how loud the Blitz Nur Spec R is on a Scooby. I took mine off and sold it and went back to the Afterburner. Also, I found a drop in low end torque (possibly down to the fact that its a 3inch system).

Afterburner: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoxxAi74Pi8

Blitz Nur Spec R: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFrE0CD0_Go

-P

[ScoobieWRX]

I've got a 3" GT Spec Gen II system going into a GrpN backbox (2.5" dia pipe going in) to keep the noise down for everyday driving, however, fully open up the taps and it's loud enough to get me kicked off various UK tracks. Fine around town though.

Having said that, there are plenty of unbranded cheap systems that are just way too loud at any revs and will get you noticed well before anyone sees you. Not my cup of tea. Methinks Prodrive kit sounds smooth and sweet enough in an understated way.

My experience of exhausts is with customers cars which i spend up to a day in generally but even then i'm far too busy looking at the laptop and listening to the engine through det cans to notice the exhaust that much.

Having said that, when i fit my wideband to some cars i'm amazed at the diameter of some peoples tailpipes, and when i can still hear them in the distance as they explore their new found extra go it makes me wonder if they'll get home without getting pulled or get home in one piece

[rb5er]

paulmoonraker said:

Mastodon2 said:

As for the Prodrive backbox, I don't rate it myself, frankly I think it's one of the worst aftermarket Impreza exhausts I've heard, but if you want to keep it on for the sake of maintaining the cars PPP status then fair enough.

Don't agree at all. Its perfect if you don't want a loud exhaust, but do want some noise when booting it. You can up the sound level a bit by taking the resonator out.

I am fairly qualified on this topic as I think I have had just about every exhaust set-up available (Standard, Prodrive, Ninja 2, Afterburner Vortex, Blitz Nur Spec R)

Edited by paulmoonraker on Sunday 18th December 09:25

+1 i wouldnt want anything louder than my prodrive exhaust, its quite loud enough, even when just idling, as well as looking much better than any aftermarket ones.

Usually aftermarket impreza exhausts are far too silly loud.

[Mastodon2]

ScoobieWRX said:

You've got to live with it daily and your neighbours too, especially at the crack of dawn on a cold and frosty morning.

Precisely the reason I held off from getting a Blitz Nur Spec for my Type R this winter, I want to get it on next summer and give the neighbourinos a few months to get used to the noise before I have to idle it to let it warm up a bit while I'm de-icing the windows. That said, I have just bought a house with a garage so that will hopefully negate the need for warming up/de-icing, so the volume of the system will probably be an irrelevancy to them!

[rb5er]

Do you not think big exhausts on type-r's just sound a bit farty and trying too hard? I'd prefer it standard.

[Mastodon2]

rb5er said:

Do you not think big exhausts on type-r's just sound a bit farty and trying too hard? I'd prefer it standard.

Trying too hard?

[rb5er]

Perhaps there are exceptions but some (all the ones i have heard) just sound so loud and farty compared to the standard item.

There must be more tasteful ones out there but I have not heard one yet.

I like a good sounding exhaust but too shouty on anything but a supercar or tvr just seems a bit ott.

[paulmoonraker]

Mastodon2 said:

ScoobieWRX said:

You've got to live with it daily and your neighbours too, especially at the crack of dawn on a cold and frosty morning.

Precisely the reason I held off from getting a Blitz Nur Spec for my Type R this winter, I want to get it on next summer and give the neighbourinos a few months to get used to the noise before I have to idle it to let it warm up a bit while I'm de-icing the windows. That said, I have just bought a house with a garage so that will hopefully negate the need for warming up/de-icing, so the volume of the system will probably be an irrelevancy to them!

A garage acts as a massive amplifier. It's for this reason I never start my car early unless I really can't avoid it.

[paulmoonraker]

Mastodon2 said:

rb5er said:

Do you not think big exhausts on type-r's just sound a bit farty and trying too hard? I'd prefer it standard.

Trying too hard?

IMO, there are not many 4 cylinder cars that sound that great in the first place. The Subaru with its flat four is a genuine exception. At full chat the Type R will probably sound okay, but round town it might drone a little I would have thought...

[Mastodon2]

I have to disagree, the Civic's history in Group N1 racing and it's outright popularity meant that there were always going to be a lot of unsilenced exhaust systems available. Saying as they are so hard to extract extra power from, the usual mods of manifold, decat and uprated induction are usually combined with an unsilenced exhaust simply because that is going to offer the maximum gain in power. I don't think you need a V-engine or 6+ cylinders to have a loud exhaust, to believe in such restrictions is frankly silly! No one complains about an E30 M3 or 190E with a DTM-style exhaust, and they have comparitively harsh tonal qualities compared to the K20 engine to start with. Japanese cars will always have a bad reputation with some but I would leave the choice of modifications up to the owner.

Personally, I think it's great seeing a car, be it a Civic, Impreza, Evo or whatever, hammering it down the road, exhaust banging away on the upshifts, but I'm a car enthusiast and I like seeing cars modified for performance, being driven as their makers intended!

I would agree however, that kids sitting in Asda car parks in K11 Micras with 4" exhaust tips are perhaps a bit misguided, but there is a bit of a difference between that and a 4 cylinder performance car like a Civic or Impreza.

[Mastodon2]

paulmoonraker said:

A garage acts as a massive amplifier. It's for this reason I never start my car early unless I really can't avoid it.

Absolutely, that is why I will be reversing into mine daily

Another point to mention, a Type R on a cheap, st exhaust system will sound bad, that much is true, but true also of any car. You can't go sticking any old bit of pipe on the back of a car and expect anything other than drone and harsh frequency amplification, hence why you pay so much for a properly developed system from a well known brand, or get a professionally made custom system.

As for drone around town, Type Rs are not bad, they have a naturally smooth tonal quality below 5000rpm, then it changes to a hard edged high pitch note towards the redline. The owners club website is full of people saying that exhaust mods on Type Rs are not for motorway drivers though, as 70mph in 6th gear = 3450rpm or so, so they are boomy on part throttle on a cruise. Not sure who would get a Type R for a motorway cruiser though!