V12V - high(er) mileage?
Discussion
....this is a topic I have been considering for some time...having so many hours of hard graft invested in the P&J..
I was recently lucky enough to become an owner of these wonderful beasts (Dec 2010) and despite Jack Frost I managed to put 4k miles on it in 3 months and given my insurance limit, it is now tucked up for a few already committed miles - V12 homecoming, summer hols, etc.
Anyhow, owing to the fact that I love driving it so much and I'm having to limit myself (like 14 units a week) my thoughts have been going along the lines of;
Assuming the V12 production run is limited to 1000 - big assumption? - there ain't any more than there are... and
If all the V12 owners agree to put 10k miles on their cars per year - after all they are meant to be driven and I'll sign up - then all used cars will have the same mileage addition - therefore protecting residual...
Perfect plan me thinks because, not only does it let me drive the gorgeous car I have lots of the time, but I'm not going to loose sheds loads of money in the process because there's a 5 year old 4.5k miles example out there...
Not being entirely serious but any thoughts on establishing the MCC (Millage Commitment Club)...?
D
I was recently lucky enough to become an owner of these wonderful beasts (Dec 2010) and despite Jack Frost I managed to put 4k miles on it in 3 months and given my insurance limit, it is now tucked up for a few already committed miles - V12 homecoming, summer hols, etc.
Anyhow, owing to the fact that I love driving it so much and I'm having to limit myself (like 14 units a week) my thoughts have been going along the lines of;
Assuming the V12 production run is limited to 1000 - big assumption? - there ain't any more than there are... and
If all the V12 owners agree to put 10k miles on their cars per year - after all they are meant to be driven and I'll sign up - then all used cars will have the same mileage addition - therefore protecting residual...
Perfect plan me thinks because, not only does it let me drive the gorgeous car I have lots of the time, but I'm not going to loose sheds loads of money in the process because there's a 5 year old 4.5k miles example out there...
Not being entirely serious but any thoughts on establishing the MCC (Millage Commitment Club)...?
D
Neil1300R said:
If its got 30,000 miles on it I'll give you £61k!
I expect there would be a tiny market for a very high mileage V12V. If you have been able to afford to put 30k miles on one then it's unlikely you'd need to sell for financial reasons and you may just rather keep it. I'd suggest looking at V8V figures for that age and mileage and project a % based curve off those levels.Neil1300R said:
If its got 30,000 miles on it I'll give you £61k!
As its a Mako I'd offer £62k Seriously it is a hard call.
It will depreciate hard as the perception is it will need more remedial work and have more wear & tear.
I'd rather buy a high mileage car in good condition than a garage queen that has moisture in the fluids & electronics and is seizing up through lack of use.
In fact I did with my current V8VR and I'm continuing to put 9k/yr on it.
Allegedly it is no worth ~50% of list after 3 years
Not that I'm bothered to me it's worth every penny!
Regardless of recent discounting we are talking about a car here which has a list price of around £140k. Any normal car would do very well indeed to hold onto 50% of its value after 3 years.
The specific scenareo we are talking about here is the cost of an above average milage V12V, therefore it is logical to assume it will be worth less than the 50% figure above. £60k seems reasonable on that basis...
Another way of looking at it is to look at the value of a high mileage 3yr old V8V now. As V12V was around 40% more expensive on a like for like basis (either discounted:discounted or RRP:RRP) so again its logical to assume this 40% uplift will continue in used prices. Obviosuly this will mean the difference will narrow in real cash terms. Looking at used prices of 2008 V8Vs with 30k miles seems to indicate a dealer sale price of £50k, which probably equates to a trade in value in the low £40k's. Add your V12V 40% uplift to this and again you are in the £60k zone also!
All of the above however is going to be very much dependent upon market conditions when you sell and right now who knows what the market will bring!!!
The specific scenareo we are talking about here is the cost of an above average milage V12V, therefore it is logical to assume it will be worth less than the 50% figure above. £60k seems reasonable on that basis...
Another way of looking at it is to look at the value of a high mileage 3yr old V8V now. As V12V was around 40% more expensive on a like for like basis (either discounted:discounted or RRP:RRP) so again its logical to assume this 40% uplift will continue in used prices. Obviosuly this will mean the difference will narrow in real cash terms. Looking at used prices of 2008 V8Vs with 30k miles seems to indicate a dealer sale price of £50k, which probably equates to a trade in value in the low £40k's. Add your V12V 40% uplift to this and again you are in the £60k zone also!
All of the above however is going to be very much dependent upon market conditions when you sell and right now who knows what the market will bring!!!
Some excellent replies thank you and can't disagree with any of it. Great idea David re the MCC!
I think there would be two main factors:-
1) limited production run (hopefully) - supply and demand would play a crucial role. My own opinion is that unfortunately there'll always be at least a dozen for sale at any one time as I think some cars will rack up multiple "own it for a year" owners. This may well keep prices down.
2) how well will these cars cope with higher mileages for consumable items. Brakes, suspension, tyres, clutch costs could impact on residuals.
Could it be feasible that you need to budget £2-4k for repairs each year?
Who knows! Who cares? I've just returned from a 40 mile drive around the local area and loved every mile
I think there would be two main factors:-
1) limited production run (hopefully) - supply and demand would play a crucial role. My own opinion is that unfortunately there'll always be at least a dozen for sale at any one time as I think some cars will rack up multiple "own it for a year" owners. This may well keep prices down.
2) how well will these cars cope with higher mileages for consumable items. Brakes, suspension, tyres, clutch costs could impact on residuals.
Could it be feasible that you need to budget £2-4k for repairs each year?
Who knows! Who cares? I've just returned from a 40 mile drive around the local area and loved every mile
apart from brakes (expensive but long lasting) should have thought that consumables/repairs wont be more than the V8 ...for the type of car and performance, its really useable ...which is what appeals to me, and why I want one versus something Italian 
Id be quite happy to pay £60-70K for a 30K mile old one
I agree with above logic, in that they will always be pegged a percentage above used V8s, although I do think they may hover around the £70-80K mark for some time, until some leggy or older ones drop the price a bit....when its a choice of a new V8 versus 3 yr old V12, its going to be a tough decision for many !
Id be quite happy to pay £60-70K for a 30K mile old one
I agree with above logic, in that they will always be pegged a percentage above used V8s, although I do think they may hover around the £70-80K mark for some time, until some leggy or older ones drop the price a bit....when its a choice of a new V8 versus 3 yr old V12, its going to be a tough decision for many !
It all depends what Aston do next. If there's a roadster or v12v's' it won't help the cause at all.
However if they cease production before the 1000 car mark it can only help. In time it has the potential to be a classic. And one day people tire of this flappy paddle fad and realize that the last great manual Aston (last great manual v12 for that matter) was a high point in the history of the marque. By then a good few will be crashed leaving the others to claw their way back up in value. But we're in for a long wait which is fine by me. Mine's a keeper.
However if they cease production before the 1000 car mark it can only help. In time it has the potential to be a classic. And one day people tire of this flappy paddle fad and realize that the last great manual Aston (last great manual v12 for that matter) was a high point in the history of the marque. By then a good few will be crashed leaving the others to claw their way back up in value. But we're in for a long wait which is fine by me. Mine's a keeper.
I agree, from what I can see (in the old crystal ball) I think the next gen AM will be based upon in-line 6 with turbo for emission reasons, with flappy things ....
Slightly off topic, but a friend of mine was on a "advanced" driving thing recently and the instructor was very clear that flappy paddles, aka automatics, are the future as both the industry and the gov. felt they were better, safer etc.......anyone heard the same?
Personally I don't get it and as for V12s, maybe we are lucky enough to own one of the last great Aston's?
D
Slightly off topic, but a friend of mine was on a "advanced" driving thing recently and the instructor was very clear that flappy paddles, aka automatics, are the future as both the industry and the gov. felt they were better, safer etc.......anyone heard the same?
Personally I don't get it and as for V12s, maybe we are lucky enough to own one of the last great Aston's?
D
No question both v12s and manuals days are numbered - a big contributing factor towards my purchase. Currently Aston are the only ones left that will sell you a new car with a v12 and a manual box.
The paddle only v8 vantage 's' is a sign that AM won't be making manuals for much longer either.
All the more reason to appreciate and enjoy what we've got. Clarkson was right. A chapter ends with the v12 vantage. Hopefully that will help it achieve future classic status. But again we could be hockeyed by a paddleshift v12vantage 's', like the vanquish 's' it would become the one to get.
The paddle only v8 vantage 's' is a sign that AM won't be making manuals for much longer either.
All the more reason to appreciate and enjoy what we've got. Clarkson was right. A chapter ends with the v12 vantage. Hopefully that will help it achieve future classic status. But again we could be hockeyed by a paddleshift v12vantage 's', like the vanquish 's' it would become the one to get.
Depreciation is only a factor the day you sell so enjoy the car and worry about depreciation later if at all. Personally my V12 is a keeper as i think this car with all its attributes is a classic in the making and has all the features that i need. I visited Gaydon last week and production number 808 and 809 were rolling off the line as i passed - both with US spec so it might soon be over.
'Our' V12 - ok my g/f's if she reads this - has now done 14,000 miles. In three years it'll prob have done near 40,000 as it gets used as a near everyday car by g/f, I use it occasionally (cough) and it'll go on at least one decent continental jaunt every year. We haven't discussed or worried about depreciation. Come the day the car is sold (quite possibly never) we'll take the hit. Until then it's been bought to enjoy! Gave up worrying about mileage/depreciation on cars a long time ago - bit like eating cream buns and worrying about your weight. Do one or the other, but not both!
clorenzen said:
Depreciation is only a factor the day you sell so enjoy the car and worry about depreciation later if at all. Personally my V12 is a keeper as i think this car with all its attributes is a classic in the making and has all the features that i need. I visited Gaydon last week and production number 808 and 809 were rolling off the line as i passed - both with US spec so it might soon be over.
My dealer has stated that the factory aren't taking any more V12 orders. That said I would be surprised if you walked in waving a deposit something wouldn't be worked out.The V12 Vantage is a niche vehicle and even if Aston wanted to produce and sell more than the 1000 cars planned i doubt whether it would be a commercial success. That is the main reason why i don't think we will see any extension of the planned production numbers safe for the odd Zagato variants etc that will be in very limited supply anyway.
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