V12V Limitation to 1000 cars silently dropped ?
Discussion
I just checked the official AM website and could not find the "limitation to 1000 cars over the life span" in the V12V section anymore !
Have AM silently dropped this limitation without further notice ??
The line brakes are still there in the HTML source code....
I know some of you find this behaviour normal but I am very much "not amused"
Was about to install personal sill plates (already made) next week with the production number of my car plus the total number (#xxx/1000).
Here's a screenshot I have made a few weeks ago for this very reason:
Have AM silently dropped this limitation without further notice ??
The line brakes are still there in the HTML source code....
I know some of you find this behaviour normal but I am very much "not amused"
Was about to install personal sill plates (already made) next week with the production number of my car plus the total number (#xxx/1000).
Here's a screenshot I have made a few weeks ago for this very reason:
Edited by MartinV12 on Tuesday 7th September 17:18
Nooo, I've just replied to the other thread on this.
Its not gone - just relocated and somewhat less obvious now.
It still says it here : http://www.astonmartin.com/eng/thecompany/news?a=6...
Surely AM wouldnt have produced you a set of xxx/1000 custom sill plates if they had just dropped the limit! That would be somewhat below the belt!
Its not gone - just relocated and somewhat less obvious now.
It still says it here : http://www.astonmartin.com/eng/thecompany/news?a=6...
Astonmartin.com said:
Production will be limited up to 1,000 examples over the life span of the car, making the V12 Vantage a truly exclusive driver’s car.
However it is a little strange and I admit a tad suspicious that it has gone from the main V12 page that you listed above. As you say everything is there except the last paragraph now! HmmmmmmmSurely AM wouldnt have produced you a set of xxx/1000 custom sill plates if they had just dropped the limit! That would be somewhat below the belt!
Edited by Adam2S on Tuesday 7th September 17:20
cardigankid said:
If AM can sell more than 1000 V12V's should we not be breaking out the champagne rather than whining about it. You didn't buy it for your pension portfolio, did you? (Of course not - that's the sort of stupid thing I would do!)
Sorry, couldn't agree less.I did not buy the car as an financial investment but I tend to buy things and expect them to behave like advertised. And the 1000 cars limitation was officially part of the V12V package.
AM did announce the V12V limitation to 1000 cars in the middle of the financial crisis. Why announcing something unexpected just to brake that promise later on ?
What if the V12 engine would produce only 450 hp in the end ? Why not "breaking out the champagne" because AM has saved some money by releasing a slightly underpowered engine ? The list is endless.
Probably I'm just not rich enough to oversee such details..
I thought it was limited to 1000.
BUT, do a bit of research on the Clio Williams.
Nothing to stop them doing xxxxxx roadsters, lightweights, sportshifts, and/or other revised specs etc if demand is there.
I seem to recall them having sold something like half the 1000. And they haven't started selling in the US yet (which I believe they are due to).
BUT, do a bit of research on the Clio Williams.
Nothing to stop them doing xxxxxx roadsters, lightweights, sportshifts, and/or other revised specs etc if demand is there.
I seem to recall them having sold something like half the 1000. And they haven't started selling in the US yet (which I believe they are due to).
I think we live in interesting Aston Martin Times. In the past, those limited numbers of vehicles I am sure were based on the Company perpetually going out of business before they could make any real numbers. Thanks to the DB7, Ford and Bez, AM is maturing into a very credible small niche car manufacturer.
I would like to think (perhaps through Rose-tinted glasses) that AM knows exactly what it is doing. I think that they know that credibility is the key to their success. i.e. they can stay in business, that the cars are reliable, that when they release a limited edition….it stays limited. If they release the One-77 and build 177 of them, no one is ever going to believe them anymore and stay away. I think the same of the V12V.
However, I would be game to bet that a) that vehicle Number S0900 to S1000 will be a little bit extra special from chassis S0001 to S0899 and from that, b) a new V12V variant will evolve… i.e. a more insanely powerful vehicle. I for one would sell my “sworn to die by Keeper” if the V12V RS came on to the market (Mako Blue with painted louvers btw).
We also have to remember that these cars are not exactly flying of the showroom floor. It may well be that when No. S1000 is sold, the new emissions friendly, lightweight DB10, 11, 12 or new V8 Vantage, could only be one or two years away and people will be joining the wait list with their deposits for those instead.
I would like to think (perhaps through Rose-tinted glasses) that AM knows exactly what it is doing. I think that they know that credibility is the key to their success. i.e. they can stay in business, that the cars are reliable, that when they release a limited edition….it stays limited. If they release the One-77 and build 177 of them, no one is ever going to believe them anymore and stay away. I think the same of the V12V.
However, I would be game to bet that a) that vehicle Number S0900 to S1000 will be a little bit extra special from chassis S0001 to S0899 and from that, b) a new V12V variant will evolve… i.e. a more insanely powerful vehicle. I for one would sell my “sworn to die by Keeper” if the V12V RS came on to the market (Mako Blue with painted louvers btw).
We also have to remember that these cars are not exactly flying of the showroom floor. It may well be that when No. S1000 is sold, the new emissions friendly, lightweight DB10, 11, 12 or new V8 Vantage, could only be one or two years away and people will be joining the wait list with their deposits for those instead.
Cant see what the problem is
a) they've always done it. The case in point is the vantage Zagato and the V8 Volante Zagato of the 80s.
b) they now sell in so many markets that they will still be a very rare sight in your country. I bet you'll never get more then a handful at any one AMOC event. They still wont be a common sight
c) The Ferrari F40 was a very limited production vehicle, but they kept producing them because they kept selling them- they made way over a thousend in the end. Hasn't harmed its desirability, or value if thats your thing
d) I'm more worried about the Cygnet. They were exclusive for existing owners of Astons. Then anyone can buy one. Now they are making noises that they are not selling. It wont be long before someone like Foxtons does a deal to use them for estate agents. Then you'll see the damage done to the brand...
And finally...
Aston make cars. That is what they do. They need to sell the cars they make money. The more they sell, the more profit they make, the more likely they are to stay in existance. So isnt them selling cars a good thing???
a) they've always done it. The case in point is the vantage Zagato and the V8 Volante Zagato of the 80s.
b) they now sell in so many markets that they will still be a very rare sight in your country. I bet you'll never get more then a handful at any one AMOC event. They still wont be a common sight
c) The Ferrari F40 was a very limited production vehicle, but they kept producing them because they kept selling them- they made way over a thousend in the end. Hasn't harmed its desirability, or value if thats your thing
d) I'm more worried about the Cygnet. They were exclusive for existing owners of Astons. Then anyone can buy one. Now they are making noises that they are not selling. It wont be long before someone like Foxtons does a deal to use them for estate agents. Then you'll see the damage done to the brand...
And finally...
Aston make cars. That is what they do. They need to sell the cars they make money. The more they sell, the more profit they make, the more likely they are to stay in existance. So isnt them selling cars a good thing???
Unless they sell in the US they're very unlikely to reach 1000 cars. To my knowledge it has sold in far fewer numbers than the DBS to date.
I'm sure the 1000 cars limit was based on not taking the car to the US, which was the initial plan. But really, they were unlikely to sell more than 1000 (£140k+) cars in Europe. So if the limit has been 'forgotten about' it could only be because they've tested the waters in the US and have decided to give it a go over there.
the real issue for me if I owned a V12 Vantage would be the effect on depreciation.
but you might actually be better off if they only make 500 of an unlimited production run, than making the full 1000 of a limited run.
I'm sure the 1000 cars limit was based on not taking the car to the US, which was the initial plan. But really, they were unlikely to sell more than 1000 (£140k+) cars in Europe. So if the limit has been 'forgotten about' it could only be because they've tested the waters in the US and have decided to give it a go over there.
the real issue for me if I owned a V12 Vantage would be the effect on depreciation.
but you might actually be better off if they only make 500 of an unlimited production run, than making the full 1000 of a limited run.
Depreciation is what deprecition is. A modern car will depreciate to 30-40% of its original value after say 3-4 years. Anything different than that will be a bonus. A limited run does not really change that because most probably the "limited" run will be replaced by an improved model. Who cares that the F Scuderia is a limited run when the 458 comes out. In 25 years time it might have some value but not in the short term.
MartinV12 said:
cardigankid said:
If AM can sell more than 1000 V12V's should we not be breaking out the champagne rather than whining about it. You didn't buy it for your pension portfolio, did you? (Of course not - that's the sort of stupid thing I would do!)
Sorry, couldn't agree less.I did not buy the car as an financial investment but I tend to buy things and expect them to behave like advertised. And the 1000 cars limitation was officially part of the V12V package.
AM did announce the V12V limitation to 1000 cars in the middle of the financial crisis. Why announcing something unexpected just to brake that promise later on ?
What if the V12 engine would produce only 450 hp in the end ? Why not "breaking out the champagne" because AM has saved some money by releasing a slightly underpowered engine ? The list is endless.
Probably I'm just not rich enough to oversee such details..
I applaud the purchase of these cars, but I would most of all like to see Aston Martin continue - what would we have today, if for example David Brown hadn't bought the company, if Component Developments hadn't bought the company, or if Ford hadn't bought the company. Answer: Without a whole series of the most iconic cars the world has known, but with few grumbling beardies polishing their obscure 1 1/2 Litre Ulsters or whatever. And those would have been about as interesting as old Arrol-Johnstons.
Yopu are right of course, if they say they are only going to produce 1000 they should only produce 1000. To me however it is a greater achievement to be able to sell more. Either way two things are certain. The cars will, in the short term, depreciate. In the long term they will be extremely valuable collector's items.
I remember the days when new cars didn't depreciate, they appreciated. It was not a healthy economic era and not a desirable place to be. It did give some people the idea which still persists that they could buy a new car and sell it six months later for a profit. Common sense must tell you that while short term condition may make that possible on accasion, it is not sustainable.
I wouldn't bugger around with the sill plates on your V12V. It will make it non-original and affect the long term value.
Although I’m a V12V owner and consider my machine to be a “lifer”, consider that a 1000 units will maintain an element of rarity (as far as one can take that), or that less than 750 will be better for depreciation, I have to look at the bigger picture.
That picture is this; AM should drop the V8V – yes drop it. Replace it with the V12V as the standard small sports car model. That IMHO will raise eyebrows and definitely take market share away from the 997 crowd, the 430’s, R8’s and a few Lambos. Maybe it should have been that right from the start. The company – if it could contain the price (its still one of the cheapest V12’s out there), I think would do much better and hence-forth be more profitable…….and therefore quicker to develop new concepts. I can dream.
Finally, I don’t think were going to retire on the proceeds of our V12V’s so lets get over it and enjoy ‘em.
That picture is this; AM should drop the V8V – yes drop it. Replace it with the V12V as the standard small sports car model. That IMHO will raise eyebrows and definitely take market share away from the 997 crowd, the 430’s, R8’s and a few Lambos. Maybe it should have been that right from the start. The company – if it could contain the price (its still one of the cheapest V12’s out there), I think would do much better and hence-forth be more profitable…….and therefore quicker to develop new concepts. I can dream.
Finally, I don’t think were going to retire on the proceeds of our V12V’s so lets get over it and enjoy ‘em.
They are up to around 560-ish, so still have a way to go for the 1000 yet! All depends on the US as far as that is concerned. As for dropping the V8.. no way... its their volume seller. They may want to move upmarket but to leap from 90k to 135k as your base car would dramatically reduce volume, so a factory move would be required first.
I hope they stick to 1000 or ...LESS for the V12, it is still too many for best re-sale & brand image. Just look at Porsche doing it right yet again on their "special" models, e.g. the new GT2 RS, restricted to 500 units and sold out in two months (it's taken Aston 1 & 1/2 years to sell a few more V12's). The only reason why Porsche can do this is they restrict supply on these type of models so owners are confident to pay FULL LIST safe in the knowledge that demand will dramatically outstrip supply & re-sale will be good. While Porsche sell less of the limited edition models they make full list and also benefit from the halo effect further down the range, everyone wins. I really wish Aston could learn from this! Having said that I purchased the V12 & not the GT2, but if it dumps big time because they oversupply...again.... I may not next time!
I hope they stick to 1000 or ...LESS for the V12, it is still too many for best re-sale & brand image. Just look at Porsche doing it right yet again on their "special" models, e.g. the new GT2 RS, restricted to 500 units and sold out in two months (it's taken Aston 1 & 1/2 years to sell a few more V12's). The only reason why Porsche can do this is they restrict supply on these type of models so owners are confident to pay FULL LIST safe in the knowledge that demand will dramatically outstrip supply & re-sale will be good. While Porsche sell less of the limited edition models they make full list and also benefit from the halo effect further down the range, everyone wins. I really wish Aston could learn from this! Having said that I purchased the V12 & not the GT2, but if it dumps big time because they oversupply...again.... I may not next time!
Just saw the US version of Top Gear where they have tested the V12V.
Beside all the overwhelming comments about the V12V, they mentioned a limitation to only 300 cars. Has anybody heard of such a limitation for the US market ?
PS: Link to the video:
http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos-10/11-30-10page-...
Beside all the overwhelming comments about the V12V, they mentioned a limitation to only 300 cars. Has anybody heard of such a limitation for the US market ?
PS: Link to the video:
http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos-10/11-30-10page-...
Grant,
Porsche limits demand because they can afford to. Unfortunately Aston is in a dire financial situation where they have to produce anything they can sell (even at low margin) just in order to keep the cash flow comming in. They desperately need a partner in order to fund working capital and development costs towards a new model lineup.
Porsche limits demand because they can afford to. Unfortunately Aston is in a dire financial situation where they have to produce anything they can sell (even at low margin) just in order to keep the cash flow comming in. They desperately need a partner in order to fund working capital and development costs towards a new model lineup.
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