Vantage Clutch Replacement
Discussion
As Stuart has posted i thought i would add my view a weak point seems to be with the original clutch, i have changed clutches on the V8 vantage as low as 5000 miles (these have been on vehicles that you can hire for a day, weekend basis etc) With owner vehicles starting from around 15000 miles, some of this is down to driving style, resting your foot on the clutch whilst driving, holding it on the clutch up hill etc, most cars would be more forgiving due to the torque on this car it is not forgiving, Just to give the other side of this i also see V8's that have done over 40000 miles and still have no evidence of requiring a clutch,
A race spec clutch has been developed by stuart who contacted myself and i found it really interesting and very much needed, with a 10 kgs weight saving, which will give a performance boost , being twin plate should last at least 1.5 times the original if not double the life expectancy, the retail price will be consistent with having a standard clutch fitted by the dealer network,
That's all the benefits, As with everything the proof of the pudding is in the eating, that means a guinea pig is required for a completely unbiased review, this entails the fitment of the first clutch to a road car, here are the details and what is required,
1. the vehicle will be required for a minimum of three days but may be required for longer,
2. as per our usual standards the vehicle will not be thrashed or driven aggressively during testing,
3. the price will be very similar to a standard clutch fitted by a specialist on this test vehicle,
4. an honest report will be required good or bad,
5. If you are not happy with the fitment then a standard clutch will be retro fitted free of charge,
I really think this will be a great upgrade not only from a cost point of view but with the added benefit of the performance improvements, thoughts please.
A race spec clutch has been developed by stuart who contacted myself and i found it really interesting and very much needed, with a 10 kgs weight saving, which will give a performance boost , being twin plate should last at least 1.5 times the original if not double the life expectancy, the retail price will be consistent with having a standard clutch fitted by the dealer network,
That's all the benefits, As with everything the proof of the pudding is in the eating, that means a guinea pig is required for a completely unbiased review, this entails the fitment of the first clutch to a road car, here are the details and what is required,
1. the vehicle will be required for a minimum of three days but may be required for longer,
2. as per our usual standards the vehicle will not be thrashed or driven aggressively during testing,
3. the price will be very similar to a standard clutch fitted by a specialist on this test vehicle,
4. an honest report will be required good or bad,
5. If you are not happy with the fitment then a standard clutch will be retro fitted free of charge,
I really think this will be a great upgrade not only from a cost point of view but with the added benefit of the performance improvements, thoughts please.
There are significant benefits of an lightweight clutch and flywheel over a factory standard clutch and flywheel. Though a lightweight flywheel does not create additional horsepower, it does allow the engine to more rapidly transfer its power to the drive train. A lightweight flywheel allows an engine to have quicker throttle response due to its reduced mass. By reducing rotating mass, the engine revs quicker under acceleration. This reduced mass equates to improved acceleration,
Harry the 4.7 does have a lighter weight assembly fitted i believe it is 0.5 kgs more details here http://www.astonmartin.com/thecompany/news?a=71f4d...
As for fitting help instruction always happy to help, this is not just related to items purchased from myself, info is free and if i can't provide it i will tell you where you can obtain it, also as Stuart has major US connections it will be available there,
Harry Ferrari comparisons
it is still an Aston and will always be better 
As for fitting help instruction always happy to help, this is not just related to items purchased from myself, info is free and if i can't provide it i will tell you where you can obtain it, also as Stuart has major US connections it will be available there,
Harry Ferrari comparisons
it is still an Aston and will always be better If I were ready for a clutch, I'd give this a go.
I'm not 100% convinced it'll blip anything like a Ferrari (drivetrain differences are far, far more fundamental than the flywheel), but there should be a theoretical improvement, and if lifespan is improved and weight dropped by 10kgs, all the better.
IIRC the throttle is electronic? I actually think part of the issue with it is that it's mapped and sprung badly. Which a lightened flywheel won't help. But it should enable the engine to spin up quicker.
Note, though, that they require more care to drive. A heavy flywheel accommodates clumsy gear shifting better and helps with being "smoother". The one question mark I would have, if my hunch on throttle clumsiness is right, is that this may hinder the art of being smoother on the throttle with a lightened flywheel...????
Will be seriously interesting to see what the results are on this. With a decent exhaust, and perhaps sports cats and remap plus this, the V8 could become a very sharp little car.
I'm not 100% convinced it'll blip anything like a Ferrari (drivetrain differences are far, far more fundamental than the flywheel), but there should be a theoretical improvement, and if lifespan is improved and weight dropped by 10kgs, all the better.
IIRC the throttle is electronic? I actually think part of the issue with it is that it's mapped and sprung badly. Which a lightened flywheel won't help. But it should enable the engine to spin up quicker.
Note, though, that they require more care to drive. A heavy flywheel accommodates clumsy gear shifting better and helps with being "smoother". The one question mark I would have, if my hunch on throttle clumsiness is right, is that this may hinder the art of being smoother on the throttle with a lightened flywheel...????
Will be seriously interesting to see what the results are on this. With a decent exhaust, and perhaps sports cats and remap plus this, the V8 could become a very sharp little car.
You're pretty much spot on Murph. It's not going to be on the same level as an F430 as far as blipping the throttle goes but it will ba a lot closer. The throttle response is electronic in that the amount and speed with which the throttle butterfly opens is controlled by the mapping, however, what happens as a result of that opening will be affected quite a lot. So your input won't cause the throttle to open any quicker, but when you do open it, the engine will respond much more quickly. This also appies when it is accelerating in gear.
You're also right about more care when driving. We're opting for a setup which will allow the maximum amount of slippage for driveability, but due to the decreased rotational inertia, the clutch will 'grab' the flywheel faster and engage more quickly so you will have to modulate it more carefully. To my way of thinking it actually becomes better to drive - more direct and rewarding, but certainly when pulling away in 1st you will have to be more precise than with the OE setup.
There are a couple of other effects you haven't mentioned - in addition to revving up faster, the engine will also 'rev down' faster due to the decreased rotational mass. So it will drop off more quickly when you engage the clutch, but should be quicker and easier to heel and toe. You will also find that you get more engine braking, a more pronounced effect when you lift off, again, because there is less inertia keeping the engine turning over.
As far as the overall results... I had the good fortune of driving a 2007 Vantage with exhaust/cats/ecu from San Diego to Vancouver, and just that combination really wakes the car up and gives it that 'edge' it was missing. With a clutch/flywheel package I think a lot of people will be surprised at just how much more alert and willing the car feels. It certainly had this effect on my racecar.
But to be honest, I think the most important thing is that it offers a much longer lasting solution because when half the cost of a clutch job is the labour, something that lasts twice as long for a little more money is a nice option!
You're also right about more care when driving. We're opting for a setup which will allow the maximum amount of slippage for driveability, but due to the decreased rotational inertia, the clutch will 'grab' the flywheel faster and engage more quickly so you will have to modulate it more carefully. To my way of thinking it actually becomes better to drive - more direct and rewarding, but certainly when pulling away in 1st you will have to be more precise than with the OE setup.
There are a couple of other effects you haven't mentioned - in addition to revving up faster, the engine will also 'rev down' faster due to the decreased rotational mass. So it will drop off more quickly when you engage the clutch, but should be quicker and easier to heel and toe. You will also find that you get more engine braking, a more pronounced effect when you lift off, again, because there is less inertia keeping the engine turning over.
As far as the overall results... I had the good fortune of driving a 2007 Vantage with exhaust/cats/ecu from San Diego to Vancouver, and just that combination really wakes the car up and gives it that 'edge' it was missing. With a clutch/flywheel package I think a lot of people will be surprised at just how much more alert and willing the car feels. It certainly had this effect on my racecar.
But to be honest, I think the most important thing is that it offers a much longer lasting solution because when half the cost of a clutch job is the labour, something that lasts twice as long for a little more money is a nice option!
Murph7355 said:
If I were ready for a clutch, I'd give this a go.
I'm not 100% convinced it'll blip anything like a Ferrari (drivetrain differences are far, far more fundamental than the flywheel), but there should be a theoretical improvement, and if lifespan is improved and weight dropped by 10kgs, all the better.
IIRC the throttle is electronic? I actually think part of the issue with it is that it's mapped and sprung badly. Which a lightened flywheel won't help. But it should enable the engine to spin up quicker.
Note, though, that they require more care to drive. A heavy flywheel accommodates clumsy gear shifting better and helps with being "smoother". The one question mark I would have, if my hunch on throttle clumsiness is right, is that this may hinder the art of being smoother on the throttle with a lightened flywheel...????
Will be seriously interesting to see what the results are on this. With a decent exhaust, and perhaps sports cats and remap plus this, the V8 could become a very sharp little car.
I'm not 100% convinced it'll blip anything like a Ferrari (drivetrain differences are far, far more fundamental than the flywheel), but there should be a theoretical improvement, and if lifespan is improved and weight dropped by 10kgs, all the better.
IIRC the throttle is electronic? I actually think part of the issue with it is that it's mapped and sprung badly. Which a lightened flywheel won't help. But it should enable the engine to spin up quicker.
Note, though, that they require more care to drive. A heavy flywheel accommodates clumsy gear shifting better and helps with being "smoother". The one question mark I would have, if my hunch on throttle clumsiness is right, is that this may hinder the art of being smoother on the throttle with a lightened flywheel...????
Will be seriously interesting to see what the results are on this. With a decent exhaust, and perhaps sports cats and remap plus this, the V8 could become a very sharp little car.
Stuart Dickinson said:
You're also right about more care when driving. We're opting for a setup which will allow the maximum amount of slippage for driveability, but due to the decreased rotational inertia, the clutch will 'grab' the flywheel faster and engage more quickly so you will have to modulate it more carefully. To my way of thinking it actually becomes better to drive - more direct and rewarding, but certainly when pulling away in 1st you will have to be more precise than with the OE setup.
This sounds very interesting. How might this effect a SportShift car? Would it make the gearchanges more pronounced. Currently lifting off the power when changing gear (as in a full manual) effects a smooth change. If the lift off engine braking is more pronunced and a greater degree of flywheel grab, might this be more difficult to control?SabreN400 said:
Stuart Dickinson said:
You're also right about more care when driving. We're opting for a setup which will allow the maximum amount of slippage for driveability, but due to the decreased rotational inertia, the clutch will 'grab' the flywheel faster and engage more quickly so you will have to modulate it more carefully. To my way of thinking it actually becomes better to drive - more direct and rewarding, but certainly when pulling away in 1st you will have to be more precise than with the OE setup.
This sounds very interesting. How might this effect a SportShift car? Would it make the gearchanges more pronounced. Currently lifting off the power when changing gear (as in a full manual) effects a smooth change. If the lift off engine braking is more pronunced and a greater degree of flywheel grab, might this be more difficult to control?So yes the car will behave differently and require slightly different use of the throttle and clutch to achieve smoothness, but to my way of thinking it ought to be ultimately more rewarding and direct to drive. Having said that, it's not for everyone. There are probably a lot of people (most of them blissfully unaware of PH I'm guessing) who bought their Aston for a different set of reasons than the enthusiast owner who would prefer the OE setup.
Dr Drill Fill said:
So I presume driving in traffic will become more difficult?
I'd venture "different" rather than "difficult".The only potential problem I see is the pedal itself. It's a bit spongy IMO which might make it difficult to modulate accurately, which tends to be a requirement with a lightened flywheel and snappier clutch (from experience on my Caterham).
Am seriously interested in the results of this. But am hopefully not due a clutch for a few miles more yet (nearly on 30k now).
These are sensible types of modification if you want a bit more pep from the car, and as its costs are comparable with the OE item, why not
Edited by Murph7355 on Wednesday 11th November 18:33
s.m.h. said:
Are these the same units as fitted to the N24/GT4? The twin plate Ford unit is ridiculously strong (though quite a weight) Ive got one to do (along with a 4.3 to 4.7 upgrade) thats done 10k race miles and broke 2 props on the way.
This is a totally original design using AP Racing components and a CNC machined steel flywheel.Murph, I don't know regarding pedal feel, we will just have to see but my experience tells me that the clutch mechanism we are using will probably be firmer and require a little more pedal effort. As far as cost goes, I don't want to set any urealistic expectations. I think Rick's assessment of cost above was that it would cost the same to have done at his place that it would to have an OE clutch at a main dealer. I know for a fact that we won't be able to bring this to market at the same price as the OE clutch/flywheel. The component costs are just too high, but our target (which I'm almost 100% we will achieve) is to be no more than 20% more expensive than an OE installation. In the US market for example, most dealers are charging $4500.00 for an OE clutch. We'd like this product to be available at the $5500.00 mark so it ends up paying itself back through the increased longevity, and the performance improvements are a bonus.
Thought I'd post an update on this one since it has been a while. We have a Vantage arriving tomorrow to have the prototype fitted, the OE clutch will be taken off by the end of the day. The Flywheel has been CNC machined and is going through the 'hardening' process over the weekend for installation next week along with the clutch plates and cover. The only thing we still have to finalise is the release bearing and actuating arm, which requires a bit of fettling to get right but is actually a pretty straightforward job. So all other things being equal, I should have some pictures by mid-week, and with any luck we will be able to confirm fitment and performance by the end of the week.
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