Aston's 400BHP Power Upgrade - Disappointment !!??

[SLINC]

Hi PHers,

Have recently had the AM Power upgrade option fitted to my 4.3 Vantage.
This supposedly boosts power up to 400bhp plus a bit of extra torque.

Decided to get a "base" figure and went to Surrey Rolling Road where a peak of 371 bhp was achieved.
Seemed reasonable given it was over 30deg C that day !!

Had the upgrade fitted and was back on the dyno (at Paramount) where - with a much cooler 21C ambient temp - a figure of precisely 371bhp was the best they could get.

IE : ZERO GAIN , for over £3k of outlay.

To say I'm disappointed is a staggering understatement.
The guys at Paramount suggested that it could be down to me having only driven a relatively short distance since having the work done (c.50 miles)and that I should see gradual gains as the ECU gets it's brain round the new setup..

Personally I can't see how it's gonna make up 30bhp so....

ADVICE PLEASE !!

[rick-derby-]

hi slinc sorry to hear about your disappointment, the upgrade that you refer too, is the modified airboxes, with the black intake manifold ie the official Aston Martin upgrade, or a third party ecu remap, secondly was the same rolling road used,

[bogie]

did you get a baseline reading beforehand at a rolling road when your car was standard?

then have the mod done

then take it back to the same place

thats the only way to see the gain

taking a one off reading on a rolling road, without a baseline....well...it may as well be a best guess im afraid

so dont get too upset, you may have gained 10-20bhp anyway and your car could have shown 350bhp on the rolling road you went too if youd gone beforehand....

best way to tell is to have a go in a different car thats got a nice pretty rolling road graph with 400bhp on it, if it feels the same as yours, then its most likely you have the same

[oldboyswithtoys]

it sounds like the new map has not taken . id return to the dealer and get them to check. iv'e done the power opgrade at work and got 25 hp increase. did not need rolling road to tell the difference.

[whoami]

bogie said:

did you get a baseline reading beforehand at a rolling road when your car was standard?

then have the mod done

then take it back to the same place

thats the only way to see the gain

taking a one off reading on a rolling road, without a baseline....well...it may as well be a best guess im afraid

so dont get too upset, you may have gained 10-20bhp anyway and your car could have shown 350bhp on the rolling road you went too if youd gone beforehand....

best way to tell is to have a go in a different car thats got a nice pretty rolling road graph with 400bhp on it, if it feels the same as yours, then its most likely you have the same

He did get a "base" figure of 371Bhp from the original RR

[bogie]

at a different rolling road though - Ive been to 3 rolling roads in 10 days before and had + or - 40bhp on a 300bhp engine, and all of them claimed to be accurate ! LOL

needs to be the SAME rolling road before/after

maybe take it back to Surrey rolling road and see what it does there and how it compares to the original run

[Ben_Kaighin]

all rolling roads gice different results you need to do the before and after at the same rolling road and ideally in the same conditions. Although you'll be lucky to get another day as hot as your initial run.

[runway78]

You had the first dyno run done at Surrey Rolling Road - good, they are known to the board. You then had an Aston Martin power up grade kit fitted - good, as that is a tried an tested power boosting mod. You then had the car rolling road tested by Paramount Performance, who are infamous on this board for fudging their dyno figures to proclaim that 'their' power up grade kit gives massive bhp - bad move. This was probably a) an attempt by them to make the Aston kit look inferior to theirs or b) just general ineptitude. I am willing to wager that should you go to Surrey Rolling Road first thing Monday morning your car will register more than what Paramount claimed your car did.

[Grant3]

The whole rolling road thing is very much smoke & mirrors IMO, not real world, it is totally dependant on using the same rolling road (before & after ) with a skilled operator than can re-align temp, humidity, bar pressure etc etc to factor an equalised result!

Truth be known the AM upgrade will (fact) only translate to a very small real world gain on the road, e.g. run an N400 against a standard 4.3 & you will not see the 400 storm ahead, just possibly poke its nose a smidgen in front. What you are buying is more free flowing rev with a "friskier" feel, you need a BIG gain in bhp to see the car faster than its like!

So forget the rolling road & see if you are happy with the "feel", pick-up, top end revs etc?

[Pugsey]

Grant3 said:

The whole rolling road thing is very much smoke & mirrors IMO, not real world, it is totally dependant on using the same rolling road (before & after ) with a skilled operator than can re-align temp, humidity, bar pressure etc etc to factor an equalised result!

Truth be known the AM upgrade will (fact) only translate to a very small real world gain on the road, e.g. run an N400 against a standard 4.3 & you will not see the 400 storm ahead, just possibly poke its nose a smidgen in front. What you are buying is more free flowing rev with a "friskier" feel, you need a BIG gain in bhp to see the car faster than its like!

So forget the rolling road & see if you are happy with the "feel", pick-up, top end revs etc?

Spot on Grant. Even the V12V isn't THAT much faster than the V8 reality. Feels it though because of the ease with which it does it.

Go with 'feel' and if you're happy with that, forget rolling road figs - which are 95% rubbish anyway. Just a loud exhuast will make most cars 'faster'.

IMHO the ONLY reliable bhp figs come from static, bench dynos - but a bit extreme to have your engine removed really!

Edited by Pugsey on Sunday 19th July 09:46

Double edit for spelling!

Edited by Pugsey on Sunday 19th July 09:49

[XXXAngelXXX]

to be honest the DBS feels faster than the V8V 4.7 but in real it isn't - i tried it out...

[Pugsey]

XXXAngelXXX said:

to be honest the DBS feels faster than the V8V 4.7 but in real it isn't - i tried it out...

I was happily keeping pace - even passing DBSs at Donnington in a V8V. Not much in it on the straights and V8 better through the corners. Mind you, I AM a driving God.....................................

[XXXAngelXXX]

[Grant3]

+1

[XXXAngelXXX]

just an excuse to stick with the 4.7 eh Grant

[Vixpy1]

The car was booked back in with me for an after run but Liam could not make it, I have been exceptionaly busy recently and exceptionally crap at picking up the phone. So thats why Laim maybe went somewhere else.

Happy to run the car with its new mods, both the other Aston packages I did made exactly the quoted improvement or better, and I would be suprised if it was not the case this time.

Cheers,

Charlie
SRR.

[sadlerj]

runway78 said:

You had the first dyno run done at Surrey Rolling Road - good, they are known to the board. You then had an Aston Martin power up grade kit fitted - good, as that is a tried an tested power boosting mod. You then had the car rolling road tested by Paramount Performance, who are infamous on this board for fudging their dyno figures to proclaim that 'their' power up grade kit gives massive bhp - bad move. This was probably a) an attempt by them to make the Aston kit look inferior to theirs or b) just general ineptitude. I am willing to wager that should you go to Surrey Rolling Road first thing Monday morning your car will register more than what Paramount claimed your car did.

I have been to Paramount a few times (once with the AMOC at loads of other Astons) and have found them very honest and trustworthy....(oh and my standard AMV8 came out at 398BHP...they could have made it under read and thus tried to sell me a power upgrade but they did not...)

[runway78]

sadlerj said:

runway78 said:

You had the first dyno run done at Surrey Rolling Road - good, they are known to the board. You then had an Aston Martin power up grade kit fitted - good, as that is a tried an tested power boosting mod. You then had the car rolling road tested by Paramount Performance, who are infamous on this board for fudging their dyno figures to proclaim that 'their' power up grade kit gives massive bhp - bad move. This was probably a) an attempt by them to make the Aston kit look inferior to theirs or b) just general ineptitude. I am willing to wager that should you go to Surrey Rolling Road first thing Monday morning your car will register more than what Paramount claimed your car did.

I have been to Paramount a few times (once with the AMOC at loads of other Astons) and have found them very honest and trustworthy....(oh and my standard AMV8 came out at 398BHP...they could have made it under read and thus tried to sell me a power upgrade but they did not...)

I am glad it worked out for you. Unfortunately, their name has popped up too many times regarding 'issues'. Huge dyno gains, misrepresenting product they are selling, etc. etc. There may well be nothing sinister going on, just inconsistency coupled with a tinge of ineptitude.

[bogie]

sadlerj said:

runway78 said:

You had the first dyno run done at Surrey Rolling Road - good, they are known to the board. You then had an Aston Martin power up grade kit fitted - good, as that is a tried an tested power boosting mod. You then had the car rolling road tested by Paramount Performance, who are infamous on this board for fudging their dyno figures to proclaim that 'their' power up grade kit gives massive bhp - bad move. This was probably a) an attempt by them to make the Aston kit look inferior to theirs or b) just general ineptitude. I am willing to wager that should you go to Surrey Rolling Road first thing Monday morning your car will register more than what Paramount claimed your car did.

I have been to Paramount a few times (once with the AMOC at loads of other Astons) and have found them very honest and trustworthy....(oh and my standard AMV8 came out at 398BHP...they could have made it under read and thus tried to sell me a power upgrade but they did not...)

just goes to show how unreliable rolling roads are then

manufacturers have calibrated engine dynos, which are allowed to be a few % either side of claimed horsepower

there are not requirements whatsover on rolling road operators (other than the regular trading standards) so I never understand why people take the results and readings as gospel

Ive spent weeks on/at rolling roads over the last 10 years, tuning various cars, and when you see how they work and the ease that the operator can just make a few tiny tweeks here and there can make to take off or add big percentages of power...well you never look at them the same again

they are tool for tuning - before and after, differential results, not for outright power measuring and comparing to manufacturers claims. To do that, as Pugsey said earlier, you need to take the engine out and put in on a bench dyno, calibrated to the same DIN standards etc as a manufacturer run engine test cell. Then you can compare.

If there was any part of the motor industry that needs a regulatory body, with independant inspectors and a certification program, its the tuning industry, as there is so much bull, hype and general misinformation, it may as well be run as a subdivision of the magic circle LOL

[SLINC]

Thanks to everyone for their advice and comments - very much appreciated.I spoke to the helpful guys at Aston Sevenoaks (who fitted the Power Upgrade kit) and they've agreed to give it a check over on Wednesday.

I'll be back at SRR soon to have a run on the original dyno - this time with Paramount's Sports Cats fitted.In theory I should get at least their "post cat" figure of 384bhp.
Of course I'm hoping for more given the AM pack is the main change since getting the Base figure from SRR.

For what it's worth I found Paramount as professional and helpful as I'd wished them to be and am delighted with new Miltek cats - sound is even more awesome...Just hoping that their dyno was having an off-day.
Will post up results once known...

Edited by SLINC on Monday 20th July 22:23