SHAMEFUL TREATMENT OF ASTON MARTIN WORKERS
Discussion
As you all know Aston Martin is making 300 permanent workers redundant, all these people are being offered is the basic government minimum of £330 for every year worked, this is shameful from a company that is making vast profits to treat the workers who have worked hard to turn this company into what it is today, especially when companies like jaguar and land rover which have not done so well in past years are paying there redundant workers a considerably better settlement.
You make the assumption as so many do that businesses have all the money in the world to do what is 'fair'. No. Governments do.
If this government had followed more responsible economic policies and not loaded the cost of employment with additional 'National Insurance' ( a euphemism for a fraudulent stealth tax) and all sorts of rights of use principally to skivers I doubt if the situation would be anything like as bad as it is. Blame G Brown, not Ulrich Bez.
If this government had followed more responsible economic policies and not loaded the cost of employment with additional 'National Insurance' ( a euphemism for a fraudulent stealth tax) and all sorts of rights of use principally to skivers I doubt if the situation would be anything like as bad as it is. Blame G Brown, not Ulrich Bez.
Edited by cardigankid on Wednesday 10th December 18:27
You are right of course, but this is a company that is very successful and that does have the funds, apart from the economic climate I dont think it was very clever to build 2500 yes two thousand five hundred unsold cars now sitting around the world some dating back to 2006, that was not gordon browns fault, that one lies at the door of Dr Ulrich Bez I think.
do you work for Aston then? or have friends there (I do) as you seem to be quite taken aback with this.
tens of thousands of people are out of work already in other businesses
its a sign of the times
expect every car maker on the planet to be making cuts now or soon
and not everyone gets a great redundancy package...very few in fact
Porsche are the most profitable in the world...and they are laying off workers, stopping production for a month or two, have you been on their forums too to make sure their owners know they are robbing bstards too - they make more profit per car than any other car company you know
yes none of us are happy about the state of the world right now, but harping on about it and s
gging off a company on a forum ...well...can you treat them all equal please - that should give you something to do...every car makers forum right now needs updating on such things you know
tens of thousands of people are out of work already in other businesses
its a sign of the times
expect every car maker on the planet to be making cuts now or soon
and not everyone gets a great redundancy package...very few in fact
Porsche are the most profitable in the world...and they are laying off workers, stopping production for a month or two, have you been on their forums too to make sure their owners know they are robbing bstards too - they make more profit per car than any other car company you know
yes none of us are happy about the state of the world right now, but harping on about it and s
gging off a company on a forum ...well...can you treat them all equal please - that should give you something to do...every car makers forum right now needs updating on such things you know cardigankid said:
You make the assumption as so many do that businesses have all the money in the world to do what is 'fair'. No. Governments do....
No, governments do NOT. The problem is, they THINK they do. And that is exactly what gets us into the st.As for AM making vast profits, I guess there are two arguments:
1) Maybe they aren't going to this year and the job losses (and payouts) are a consequence of this?
2) Maybe the company needs to preserve profit to retain its shareholders' support, without which there would be a good deal more than the redundancies currently noted.
End of the day, we are in a capitalist economy and it would seem the down side of this, over time, is simply that the gap between the haves and have nots grows exponentially. Where humans are concerned there is no "perfect system" as humans are greedy.
Murph7355 said:
cardigankid said:
You make the assumption as so many do that businesses have all the money in the world to do what is 'fair'. No. Governments do....
No, governments do NOT. The problem is, they THINK they do. And that is exactly what gets us into the st...End of the day, we are in a capitalist economy and it would seem the down side of this, over time, is simply that the gap between the haves and have nots grows exponentially. Where humans are concerned there is no "perfect system" as humans are greedy.Finally, maybe if they hadn't made the 2500 unsold cars these guys would have been redundant that much earlier.
DJC said:
Aston Martin and vast profits in the same sentance? You jest Sir!
They may have made a cpl of years of decent profits, however that hardly offsets what Ford have had to invest in AM and their current product range.
what, you mean that shiney new factory, recent development of four cars and ther motorsport (and associated things) actually costs money?They may have made a cpl of years of decent profits, however that hardly offsets what Ford have had to invest in AM and their current product range.
And as a Business Aston is being affected by the global downturn/recession/whatever you call it?
Its sad for the workers, but its sad for every worker who has been made redundant, and sad for every company which closes. Unhappily, this is life at the moment.
What is odd is that Aston introduced the just in time build (only build cars that have actually sold) sometime around 1995. There were lots of unsold cars lying around the world and the first thing the chairman did was to stop production until every car had been sold. Sound familiar? I cannot believe that Aston has built unsold cars, i would have thought they would have learned.
Then again what do i know!
Then again what do i know!
If a dealer orders a car, it can be specified by a customer or by the dealer himself. This is common practice especially in the US, so dealers have a nice bunch of cars in stock, so investment bankers and celebrities can just walk in and buy a car, take it home the next day. Of course that is a risky game as it turns out now.
bmartin said:
...This is common practice especially in the US, ...
And their car industry business model works reaaaaalllllllly well!What keeps your futbler, x-factor and big brother celebs salivating is that there are not tons of these cars around.
As a previous post noted, they need to get the unsold stock sold, and only build cars to order save for a couple of demo cars per dealer.
Volume is not the answer with prestige marques. Prestige is.
Aston Martin have made mistakes no doubt, but let's try and be logical and fair about this. As we know, in the luxury arena the trick is to manufacture/supply one less unit than demand, thereby creating that degree of exclusivity. Aston Martin did that for the first year or so of production of the Aston Martin V8 Vantage and DB9. However, they had done their job in creating cracking products which ensured that once the first years production hit the streets demand subsequently increased...massively. Aston Martin stepped up production to meet that demand, but still they did not flood the market with oversupply of product. Demand was in fact still outstripping the units they were makeing or could make! Why? Because the last few years, basically due to cheap finance, has seen a massive, massive increase of waiting clients for these cars. We all remember the 30 page threads of posters egging each other on to 'go for it' and get financed up to the eye balls and go for that Lamborghini. We have been in a seeming retail boom time with endless buyers placeing deposits for supercars. Aston Martin, Ferrari and Lamborghini have ALL stepped up their production to meet that demand.
The early part of 2008 was the peak of that booming demand - followed by a total collapse. The first 8 months of 2008 for my business were our best sales months ever, followed by 4 of the worst ever. Sales seem to rise and dip daily the past 4 months depending on media news reports of banks collapsing around the world and what not. And once people realise the world is still here revolving, retail buyers have a) gone into a hold pattern and are waiting to see what happens before spending big or b) seen their cheap loan money/finance deals evaporate thereby eliminating them from the buyers market altogether. Now, because this happened so quickly, businesses like car manufacturers (who manufacture and retail) where advertising/marketing/manufacturing/production budgets are set months in advance, have been spending and manufacturing big in line with record sales growth, only to have the sales virtually half, and then some, overnight. My point is, Aston Martin were simply makeing enough cars to meet demand - the demand just happened to evaporate overnight and left the dealers holding the baby unfortunately. Look, Ferrari can get away with massive lead times and take their time when building their cars (and hence throtle back accordingly now), but Aston Martin needed to maximise turnover and profits while the buzz was strong, which they tried to do, to strengthen budgets, as well as profits, for the companies future. Research, Design, and Development as well as successful manufacture of the baby V12 Vantage will not pay for itself. That money has to come from somewhere.
For me, if I had to be critical, the mistake Aston Martin made is the way they launched the 4.7 Vantage. They just dropped it on the dealers without giving them enough sufficient warning of it's launch. The Dealers I have spoken to say that most of the 'unsold stock of Aston Martin's' we keep hearing about at the moment, are the last of the line 4.3 AM Vantages. This is where punters were sold 4.3's only to find out that the 4.7 was coming out and then they demanded the dealer switch the order to the latest model. The dealer did so to keep the customer sweet but Aston still expected the dealer to pay for the incoming 4.3, therby lumping the dealer up with an unsold car, sorry....cars. Look at the Surrey dealer HWM. They are one of the biggest, longest standing AM dealers. They have now resorted to packaging up a whole load of 4.3 Coupe and Cabrios as 'limited edition' cars with tarty body stripes and N400 alloys and lights to get rid of them. Who wants a 4.3 now for the same money as a 4.7? Nobody in their right mind. That is where Aston got it wrong. Yes, some will say that they set quotas too high to all their dealers, but that keeps the dealers on their toes if you ask me. BUT, you can't tie one arm behind their backs and expect them to practically sell outgoing models (4.3) alongside new models (4.7) for the same price. Throw in a credit crunch and you have a mess on your ends. The dealers, if Aston will allow them to, should just cuts their losses and sell the excess stock at massively reduced prices and clear the decks for 2009 - which no doubt will have a whole new wave of financial challenges in store.
Despite this observation about Aston I am not anti Aston Martin. Not for one minute. Many businesses, including my own, are suffering at the moment and we are being made to look silly. Look at Honda, just giving up the F1 team after all that effort. Ferrari have cutback staffing hours and contracts too despite claiming they were busier than ever a few months back. Manufacturing/Retailing is a tough gig right now, for all. Aston Martin is a true British institution and we should be supporting it, not slinging mud. I for one can't wait to pick up my AMV8 in the near future, and I just wish us Brits could all stop being such cynical buggers and be proud of what we have. Just look at the Americans and their car industry at the mo.
The early part of 2008 was the peak of that booming demand - followed by a total collapse. The first 8 months of 2008 for my business were our best sales months ever, followed by 4 of the worst ever. Sales seem to rise and dip daily the past 4 months depending on media news reports of banks collapsing around the world and what not. And once people realise the world is still here revolving, retail buyers have a) gone into a hold pattern and are waiting to see what happens before spending big or b) seen their cheap loan money/finance deals evaporate thereby eliminating them from the buyers market altogether. Now, because this happened so quickly, businesses like car manufacturers (who manufacture and retail) where advertising/marketing/manufacturing/production budgets are set months in advance, have been spending and manufacturing big in line with record sales growth, only to have the sales virtually half, and then some, overnight. My point is, Aston Martin were simply makeing enough cars to meet demand - the demand just happened to evaporate overnight and left the dealers holding the baby unfortunately. Look, Ferrari can get away with massive lead times and take their time when building their cars (and hence throtle back accordingly now), but Aston Martin needed to maximise turnover and profits while the buzz was strong, which they tried to do, to strengthen budgets, as well as profits, for the companies future. Research, Design, and Development as well as successful manufacture of the baby V12 Vantage will not pay for itself. That money has to come from somewhere.
For me, if I had to be critical, the mistake Aston Martin made is the way they launched the 4.7 Vantage. They just dropped it on the dealers without giving them enough sufficient warning of it's launch. The Dealers I have spoken to say that most of the 'unsold stock of Aston Martin's' we keep hearing about at the moment, are the last of the line 4.3 AM Vantages. This is where punters were sold 4.3's only to find out that the 4.7 was coming out and then they demanded the dealer switch the order to the latest model. The dealer did so to keep the customer sweet but Aston still expected the dealer to pay for the incoming 4.3, therby lumping the dealer up with an unsold car, sorry....cars. Look at the Surrey dealer HWM. They are one of the biggest, longest standing AM dealers. They have now resorted to packaging up a whole load of 4.3 Coupe and Cabrios as 'limited edition' cars with tarty body stripes and N400 alloys and lights to get rid of them. Who wants a 4.3 now for the same money as a 4.7? Nobody in their right mind. That is where Aston got it wrong. Yes, some will say that they set quotas too high to all their dealers, but that keeps the dealers on their toes if you ask me. BUT, you can't tie one arm behind their backs and expect them to practically sell outgoing models (4.3) alongside new models (4.7) for the same price. Throw in a credit crunch and you have a mess on your ends. The dealers, if Aston will allow them to, should just cuts their losses and sell the excess stock at massively reduced prices and clear the decks for 2009 - which no doubt will have a whole new wave of financial challenges in store.
Despite this observation about Aston I am not anti Aston Martin. Not for one minute. Many businesses, including my own, are suffering at the moment and we are being made to look silly. Look at Honda, just giving up the F1 team after all that effort. Ferrari have cutback staffing hours and contracts too despite claiming they were busier than ever a few months back. Manufacturing/Retailing is a tough gig right now, for all. Aston Martin is a true British institution and we should be supporting it, not slinging mud. I for one can't wait to pick up my AMV8 in the near future, and I just wish us Brits could all stop being such cynical buggers and be proud of what we have. Just look at the Americans and their car industry at the mo.
Hear hear!
Should Aston not maybe take back the 4.3's and release them as an official limited edition of some sort, bolt on some Prodrive bits, get Danny Craig to sign the dashboard with a felt tipped pen, or similar. Or would it be simpler and cheaper just to knock £25k off the price, first come first served?
Should Aston not maybe take back the 4.3's and release them as an official limited edition of some sort, bolt on some Prodrive bits, get Danny Craig to sign the dashboard with a felt tipped pen, or similar. Or would it be simpler and cheaper just to knock £25k off the price, first come first served?
Edited by cardigankid on Friday 12th December 13:32
runway78 said:
For me, if I had to be critical, the mistake Aston Martin made is the way they launched the 4.7 Vantage. They just dropped it on the dealers without giving them enough sufficient warning of it's launch. The Dealers I have spoken to say that most of the 'unsold stock of Aston Martin's' we keep hearing about at the moment, are the last of the line 4.3 AM Vantages. This is where punters were sold 4.3's only to find out that the 4.7 was coming out and then they demanded the dealer switch the order to the latest model. The dealer did so to keep the customer sweet but Aston still expected the dealer to pay for the incoming 4.3, therby lumping the dealer up with an unsold car, sorry....cars. Look at the Surrey dealer HWM. They are one of the biggest, longest standing AM dealers. They have now resorted to packaging up a whole load of 4.3 Coupe and Cabrios as 'limited edition' cars with tarty body stripes and N400 alloys and lights to get rid of them. Who wants a 4.3 now for the same money as a 4.7? Nobody in their right mind. That is where Aston got it wrong. Yes, some will say that they set quotas too high to all their dealers, but that keeps the dealers on their toes if you ask me. BUT, you can't tie one arm behind their backs and expect them to practically sell outgoing models (4.3) alongside new models (4.7) for the same price. Throw in a credit crunch and you have a mess on your ends. The dealers, if Aston will allow them to, should just cuts their losses and sell the excess stock at massively reduced prices and clear the decks for 2009 - which no doubt will have a whole new wave of financial challenges in store.
I agree with thr above but you've missed the really stupid part; drop in the N400 right in the middle of the end of the 4.3 but just before the 4.7.Talk about a f
k up.
Podie said:
So are we all agreed that Ford actually wasn't that bad for AML...? 
Apart from the Mondeo swichgear in the DB7 
All jokes apart, Ford was a partner through a period whereby Aston Martin was turning a profit on a car far greater than the technical input really warranted ie. the DB7. That decision to move away from a pure bespoke hand made mentality, whilst raiding the jaguar and ford parts bins and engine/chassis resources, helped create a relatively mass produced car (by Aston's previous standards) truely greater than the sum of it's parts. A true 'modern classic' if I ever I saw one. That phrase is often over used by the motoring press, but is totally warranted in the case of the charming DB7. Without that success of the DB7, not just financially but publicly, we may never have seen such cars such as the V8 Vantage or DB9. Bloomin' eck I'm coming over all nostalgic. Right, I'm off to watch Goldfinger - and it is not even Christmas yet!Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff