Supercharged V8 driving impressions
Discussion
I had the pleasure of driving the ESX supercharged version of the V8Vantage this last weekend (my daily driver is a paddle-shift DB9). My very unofficial impression is that it is really 2 cars in one. I had the paddle shifter roadster version, and it was a normal V8 drive, until I stomped on the accelerator. Then the car came alive in a big way. While a bit careful of the CHP, I was still able to get a decent first impression, and it seems that ESX has gotten it right. They have targeted HP at around 475. Would love to get it on the track to check out the handling more, and in a stick version. I previously posted ESX's contact info. before the car was together, and for those still interested, it is ali@esxmotorsports.com. If you get the chance to test drive one, definitely take advantage of it.
Im sure it is great - 475bhp and a load more torque is more than adequate 
BUT ...they need to get a UK importer and some fitting centres, along with a UK price that fits ...im sure at £15K they would have enough customers...as long as theres some form of warranty...Im sure they could offer a 12month one as very few owners actually do big mileages or heavy track use
Id be interested at £15K with a years unlimited mileage warranty ...obviously they have to build that into the cost...ive no idea what it would be to repair an Aston V8 that had gone pop !
BUT ...they need to get a UK importer and some fitting centres, along with a UK price that fits ...im sure at £15K they would have enough customers...as long as theres some form of warranty...Im sure they could offer a 12month one as very few owners actually do big mileages or heavy track use
Id be interested at £15K with a years unlimited mileage warranty ...obviously they have to build that into the cost...ive no idea what it would be to repair an Aston V8 that had gone pop !
£15k ? You're setting the price expectation high, and they will use that figure and possibly replies on here, and more ! Having been on the side lines of the AM fraternity for 20+ yrs, I am well aware that the companies catering for AM owners, especially older cars, know how to charge because their traditional clients are usually well heeled etc etc. The AMV8 has been produced in far higher numbers than any previous model, and priced to suit a particular market sector, and baring in mind they are depreciating assets unlike older models, the price for upgrades should not fall into the 'lets fleece them senseless' category.
Work out the parts cost, hours to install, allow for a margin, and it should be half the figure you mention.
On the bright side, 475bhp + a big increase in low down torque sounds ideal... and will be very tempting to a notable percentage of the new breed of AM owner. And if the cars drop out of the three year warranty and into the £35/40k bracket, then writing off £8k or so for a s/c solution seems all the more likely. But at £15-20k I think the demand will be very limited.
Work out the parts cost, hours to install, allow for a margin, and it should be half the figure you mention.
On the bright side, 475bhp + a big increase in low down torque sounds ideal... and will be very tempting to a notable percentage of the new breed of AM owner. And if the cars drop out of the three year warranty and into the £35/40k bracket, then writing off £8k or so for a s/c solution seems all the more likely. But at £15-20k I think the demand will be very limited.
Edited by Stealth-wagon on Tuesday 28th October 23:28
bogie said:
Im sure it is great - 475bhp and a load more torque is more than adequate
BUT ...they need to get a UK importer and some fitting centres, along with a UK price that fits ...im sure at £15K they would have enough customers...as long as theres some form of warranty...Im sure they could offer a 12month one as very few owners actually do big mileages or heavy track use
Id be interested at £15K with a years unlimited mileage warranty ...obviously they have to build that into the cost...ive no idea what it would be to repair an Aston V8 that had gone pop !
One year?! More like three would be needed!BUT ...they need to get a UK importer and some fitting centres, along with a UK price that fits ...im sure at £15K they would have enough customers...as long as theres some form of warranty...Im sure they could offer a 12month one as very few owners actually do big mileages or heavy track use
Id be interested at £15K with a years unlimited mileage warranty ...obviously they have to build that into the cost...ive no idea what it would be to repair an Aston V8 that had gone pop !
Frankly, I am not sure I'd want the bill if it screwed the engine further down the line. New AMV8? £20k+ IMHO. (for comparison, a replacement Merc 320CDI is pretty near the £20k mark, fitted so the AM V8 must be more surely?!)
ok guys ...I was just being realistic - the US price of this supercharger kit is $25K with 3 months warranty on the parts I think, not the engine ..... by the time its over here, with import duty, and youre paying a UK garage at our labour rates ...and they want some warranty cash themselves, for the invevitble niggles it will have...well you do the maths
sure you can get a supercharger fitted to a Honda 4 pot for £3.5K with a years warranty and it sure would be nice if someone could do that for a Vantage, but I cant see it happening myself
sure you can get a supercharger fitted to a Honda 4 pot for £3.5K with a years warranty and it sure would be nice if someone could do that for a Vantage, but I cant see it happening myself
Some thoughts...
25kUSD at the moment here, after VAT and import duty is going to be over 21kGBP. With fitting, if it "only" took a day to fit your all up cost is going to be 22k ish I would think.
And a supercharger for a 4-pot Honda isn't really going to be that different to one for an AMV8, or a Corvette, or whatever. The general principles are the same and I would guess that the compressor itself is a stock part. The biggest difference will be that you wouldn't expect to be able to amortise your development costs across as many units.
Which ends up being a double edged sword - you charge more for the unit to cover the development, and less people buy the unit as a result...
Same thing goes for the warranty angle. You don't want to go offering lengthy warranties of any substance if you might be into an expensive repair bill on an expensive car's engine. But then this is exactly the reason why someone wouldn't buy for one of these cars. Owners know how much they cost to fix.
Edited to add - 475bhp would probably make the car interesting. I wonder, though, whether that 20+k would be better spent on a 4.7l car. Less power of course, but no residuals (not that they matter any more!) or warranty issues...
I wonder why 500bhp or 525bhp wasn't plumped for. Possibly reliability I guess.
25kUSD at the moment here, after VAT and import duty is going to be over 21kGBP. With fitting, if it "only" took a day to fit your all up cost is going to be 22k ish I would think.
And a supercharger for a 4-pot Honda isn't really going to be that different to one for an AMV8, or a Corvette, or whatever. The general principles are the same and I would guess that the compressor itself is a stock part. The biggest difference will be that you wouldn't expect to be able to amortise your development costs across as many units.
Which ends up being a double edged sword - you charge more for the unit to cover the development, and less people buy the unit as a result...
Same thing goes for the warranty angle. You don't want to go offering lengthy warranties of any substance if you might be into an expensive repair bill on an expensive car's engine. But then this is exactly the reason why someone wouldn't buy for one of these cars. Owners know how much they cost to fix.
Edited to add - 475bhp would probably make the car interesting. I wonder, though, whether that 20+k would be better spent on a 4.7l car. Less power of course, but no residuals (not that they matter any more!) or warranty issues...
I wonder why 500bhp or 525bhp wasn't plumped for. Possibly reliability I guess.
Edited by Murph7355 on Tuesday 28th October 23:10
Soul Reaver said:
Why has'nt anyone just explored the old tuning methods? It's a V8 for gods sake.
What about skimming heads. Porting and gas flowing, remapped ECU, new profiled cams, sports exhaust. I am sure you could find at least 50 to 70 bhp with that lot.
exactly ...Aston did get 20bhp extra with their work ...Id sooner pay a known and trusted tuning firm for something tangible like a port n polish and cams, combined with an exhaust/cats + remap What about skimming heads. Porting and gas flowing, remapped ECU, new profiled cams, sports exhaust. I am sure you could find at least 50 to 70 bhp with that lot.
and it would be a damn site more believeable if you paid £5-6K for that and got 50bhp rather than these obscure claims of 70bhp for a posh exhaust and a remap onto 98ron
bogie said:
Soul Reaver said:
Why has'nt anyone just explored the old tuning methods? It's a V8 for gods sake.
What about skimming heads. Porting and gas flowing, remapped ECU, new profiled cams, sports exhaust. I am sure you could find at least 50 to 70 bhp with that lot.
exactly ...Aston did get 20bhp extra with their work ...Id sooner pay a known and trusted tuning firm for something tangible like a port n polish and cams, combined with an exhaust/cats + remap What about skimming heads. Porting and gas flowing, remapped ECU, new profiled cams, sports exhaust. I am sure you could find at least 50 to 70 bhp with that lot.
and it would be a damn site more believeable if you paid £5-6K for that and got 50bhp rather than these obscure claims of 70bhp for a posh exhaust and a remap onto 98ron
Also, “posh exhausts “and all the other over priced pro-drive bits will not add anything like 70bhp ! More like 30 bhp on a good day ...
So, taking the good old fashioned route of 'blue printing' the engine etc, would have worked mechanically in the past, but nowadays with computer controlled everything such mods would need full ECU re-profiling, and probably on an engine by engine basis. Unfortunately, AM haven't made that easy.
Edited by Stealth-wagon on Thursday 30th October 17:07
a few people have had theirs dynoed and they are near enough...Id sooner believe a manufacturers engine dyno figures, that are legally bound to produce the numbers(US market would have a field day with litigation otherwise!) ...rather than an aftermarket tuner, who can say whatever they like, and just run it up on a rolling road with its associated guesstimations
I'm not sure conventional methods would net huge gains for a road V8V. The engine's already quite peaky, And I strongly suspect that modern manufacturing tolerances are such that getting big gains with fettling is probably not going to happen.
The beauty of supercharging is more gusto throughout the range.
The beauty of supercharging is more gusto throughout the range.
Apologies for not earlier correcting my original post. Family and work sometimes make it appear that I have fallen off the face of the earth. The HP was actually 545. Basically was fast enough to kill myself in without time for the "oh sh*t what have I done" to kick in. Liked it very much. Haven't done much time with the AM manual paddles, and to be honest, like the stick better. You really have to jam the accelerator for the supercharger to kick in, but then you are just holding on for the ride. As I said, would love to get it on the track, even for just a few laps. Will have to see if I can talk the owner into a track day that we have set for Jan 16, and then I can give a better perspective on the car. If you get the chance to test drive one, it is worth the opportunity.
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