AM & Merc in tie-up
Discussion
From Car Magazine website, http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/I...
By Tim Pollard
06 August 2008 11:20
Aston Martin and Mercedes are plotting a wide-ranging tie-up that could see the two famous brands collaborate on engines, hybrids, transmission and even entire platforms, CAR can reveal. The top-secret partnership between Aston and Merc – dubbed Project Alligator by the Germans – is detailed in our exclusive story in the new September 2008 issue of CAR Magazine.
The scoop includes the lowdown on:
• How Mercedes engines could power future Aston Martins
• AMG's 6.2-litre V8 tipped for Vantage models
• Diesels and hybrids from Germany planned for Aston
• Whole platforms to be shared by top-end models
• Eight-speed Merc auto bound for British sports cars
• Why Maybach and Aston could co-operate on future models
We speak to the engineers and insiders who are working on Project Alligator and spill the beans on the secret project that will reshape future generations of Aston Martins. Plus our European editor Georg Kacher analyses what the shock news means for the industry
By Tim Pollard
06 August 2008 11:20
Aston Martin and Mercedes are plotting a wide-ranging tie-up that could see the two famous brands collaborate on engines, hybrids, transmission and even entire platforms, CAR can reveal. The top-secret partnership between Aston and Merc – dubbed Project Alligator by the Germans – is detailed in our exclusive story in the new September 2008 issue of CAR Magazine.
The scoop includes the lowdown on:
• How Mercedes engines could power future Aston Martins
• AMG's 6.2-litre V8 tipped for Vantage models
• Diesels and hybrids from Germany planned for Aston
• Whole platforms to be shared by top-end models
• Eight-speed Merc auto bound for British sports cars
• Why Maybach and Aston could co-operate on future models
We speak to the engineers and insiders who are working on Project Alligator and spill the beans on the secret project that will reshape future generations of Aston Martins. Plus our European editor Georg Kacher analyses what the shock news means for the industry
Guys, what do you think is a likely release date for a next generation Vantage ? Given a 5-7 years lifecycle would mean 2010 ?
On the other side, they have just upgraded the engine which has made me confident, that it will take quite some time until MKII ??
Share your oppinions please !
On the other side, they have just upgraded the engine which has made me confident, that it will take quite some time until MKII ??
Share your oppinions please !
shadowninja said:
A geeky thought but does an AMG V8 have the right characteristics for an Aston Martin? I've always regarded AMGs as something akin to a dwarf with a sledgehammer to Aston Martin's elf with a well-crafted sword.
When has this ever been the case for AM!? Their engines have never really been the creme de la creme, the old Vantage was a brute. The 6.2 Merc V8 is fantastic and sounds superb. You also obviously have their incredibly powerful V12s, so it'd make sense as a tie-up.As long as Aston are just breathing on & then using some of Mercs great engines, rather than starting with chassis sharing, then I for one also think its great news.
Those brutish V8's & V12's with a touch of Aston tweaking in the existing sports pack equipped cars should ensure an even stronger range of cars!
Those brutish V8's & V12's with a touch of Aston tweaking in the existing sports pack equipped cars should ensure an even stronger range of cars!
JohnG1 said:
I thought it'd be better to get into bed with BMW - get the V10 from the M5 into the Vantage and the big V12 from the 7 series into the DB9....
I would second that. BMW does build the sportier, more efficent and higher reving engines, but lately AMG with its 6.2 V8 has taken a huge step forward. This is a wonderful piece of machine and would perfectly fit the V8 Vantage. What I dislike is the american muscle car type of sound which partly can be influenced by the exhaust system.As for BMW's V10, this engine is substituted by a twin-turbo 4.4 V8 and will no longer be built as of 2010/2011. Same with the M3 V8 which most likely will be substituted by a R6 or V6 twin-turbo engine.
JohnG1 said:
well that's spoiled my pipe dream then....
Still not sure I want to see AM get into bed with Merc.
If it's the same engine in a cooking Merc as an Aston I'd not buy another Aston. Unless it's super bonkers fast and has massive superchargers and/or turbos :-)
Never been a huge fan of Mercedes either. Just hope the cars retain the Aston soul, which is oh so important. However, Car magazine have always had a flair for the theatrical. Remember their huge feature on the 'New' McLaren complete with pictures, specs and all? Still waiting...Still not sure I want to see AM get into bed with Merc.
If it's the same engine in a cooking Merc as an Aston I'd not buy another Aston. Unless it's super bonkers fast and has massive superchargers and/or turbos :-)
JohnG1 said:
well that's spoiled my pipe dream then....
Still not sure I want to see AM get into bed with Merc.
If it's the same engine in a cooking Merc as an Aston I'd not buy another Aston. Unless it's super bonkers fast and has massive superchargers and/or turbos :-)
The 6.2 V8 is a bit more than 'cooking'! Would you really say no to a V8 Vantage with that powerplant!?Still not sure I want to see AM get into bed with Merc.
If it's the same engine in a cooking Merc as an Aston I'd not buy another Aston. Unless it's super bonkers fast and has massive superchargers and/or turbos :-)
Having thought about this I think will see...........
Vantage: Using current 4.7 V8
Vantage S : Using more powerful AMG V8
DB9: Using current V12 engine
DB9 S: Using AMG V12 or tweaked version of the current DBS unit.
DBS: Using twin turbo AMG V12
It will allow them to expand the range whilst increasing margins.
Thoughts???
Vantage: Using current 4.7 V8
Vantage S : Using more powerful AMG V8
DB9: Using current V12 engine
DB9 S: Using AMG V12 or tweaked version of the current DBS unit.
DBS: Using twin turbo AMG V12
It will allow them to expand the range whilst increasing margins.
Thoughts???
jus said:
Sorry chaps, but Astons have got to be N/A!
I tend to agree, although in the late 80's and 90's the Vantages got supercharged...But I really hate the idea of a TT Merc V12, even though they come from AMG. It just doesn't seem right in an Aston!! I like the idea of Merc's knowledge about electronic and safety, but Aston should develop their own engines! And please don't let them turn Astons in rebodied, heavy, CL and SL derivates!!!
Edited by Valentin on Tuesday 12th August 00:16
As long as they can find enough of a way to differentiate them, I doubt it matters....
I wonder if making their own bits wouldn't be too much of a pipe dream...far smaller companies have made their own engines, for example. Possibly not with the required volumes though I suppose.
I just fear that there's too much sharing of bits in the industry these days, and if we're not careful it'll be tough to tell one marque from another save for the clothes (fortunately AM do very well there generally. At least when they manage to drive past Halfords without stopping they do!).
I wonder if making their own bits wouldn't be too much of a pipe dream...far smaller companies have made their own engines, for example. Possibly not with the required volumes though I suppose.
I just fear that there's too much sharing of bits in the industry these days, and if we're not careful it'll be tough to tell one marque from another save for the clothes (fortunately AM do very well there generally. At least when they manage to drive past Halfords without stopping they do!).
LongLiveTazio said:
JohnG1 said:
well that's spoiled my pipe dream then....
Still not sure I want to see AM get into bed with Merc.
If it's the same engine in a cooking Merc as an Aston I'd not buy another Aston. Unless it's super bonkers fast and has massive superchargers and/or turbos :-)
The 6.2 V8 is a bit more than 'cooking'! Would you really say no to a V8 Vantage with that powerplant!?Still not sure I want to see AM get into bed with Merc.
If it's the same engine in a cooking Merc as an Aston I'd not buy another Aston. Unless it's super bonkers fast and has massive superchargers and/or turbos :-)
I don't want to buy a Merc. Don't bother telling me that the engine in the DB9 is two ford mondeo v6s bolted together and that the switchgear is from Volvo, I know that. But if the engine is from Merc then you end up with the situation that Porsche have with the Cayman and the 911 - the brand range has to be spread out so as to not "cannibalise" sales. And then Merc think - heyho, we'll have that.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti Merc (my father would look good in one) but I bought my Aston Martin based on the complex mix of performance, karma, aura, good looks and great noise that you get when you buy a Vantage V8.
Stick in a Merc V8 and it's a slippery slope. By all means buy engines and share components (Graziano gearbox, brembo rakes, bosch ABS etc. etc.) but don't get into bed with Merc. Look at the b*llocks that DaimlerChrysler turned into.
Seriously, I am going to buy a Vantage V12 but that's the last Aston for me if Merc get involved.
Oh, and WTF is that 1-77 thing - have they built anything or is it all photoshop or whatever?
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