A year with the least desirable spec V12VS. Stick or twist?
Discussion
Had the V12VS for 12 months. Here are a few thoughts
So last May 23, I bought the least desirable spec ((based on reviews and forum posts) V12VS - sport seats and SS. I made sure it was one of the cheapest main dealer cars, and I got 2 years warranty.
The first few weeks, I did think I couldn’t get on with the SS3. I went in eyes wide open, I wanted an involving drive and knew it was a manual with an automatic clutch but wow, it takes a lot of practice to get a smooth change consistently, and can be very frustrating at the beginning.
However now it’s so rewarding you feel tightly connected to the car, as close to a manual with paddles you can get. You drive it like a manual. On fast road, you may stay in third for long stretches, or fourth, rather than changing up to top gear. Most gears have lots of pull.
?The super positive thing about SS3, is when you pull the paddle, it changes gear. No question, no lag, no hesitation, it’s connected. You then just need to make sure you use the right amount go liftoff for gear, speed, throttle and incline to make it smooth.
I also love how much feel you get from the steering and chassis. You can drive over a packet of crisps and even tell what flavour it is! Although this means long trips can be tiring. Perhaps the worst is a road noise from the tires. A post in here recommend use noise cancelling AirPods, and that does work.
I did not like the Pirelli‘s Pzero’s that car came with (they were new). When they were cold the grip was terrible and I never really felt like they warmed up. Speaking to AM performance, they said try P4S4 so I put Michelin on. I had hoped this would also reduce road noise but it didn’t, but they are far more predicable and sure footed, even in cold temps.
The engine is a masterpiece and gives the car is its character. Its linear. Yet lots of torque. It has not used a drop of oil either over 4k miles. Very impressive.
I also installed Aston installations CarPlay very early on, and a front camera (to protect that low carbon splitter) which fixed the tech. The little idrive they fit is a safe way to interact without having to look at a touch screen. Also got them to put Aston red seatbelts in and retain my labels (they used the Aston supplier for this).
Finally the seats, I actually like them. I used the heated seats a lot, as I drive the car a couple of times a month over winter on dry but cold days. Scotland roadtrip in April they were essential when it was 3c outside.
??So do I have the least desirable spec V12VS? Not for me!?
But I have put 4k miles on, so now at 19,500. I am worried about hitting 20k, but looking at the market this may be ok. But now need to work out to stick or twist.
The car still has another 12 months AM warranty on it.
I tried a friends lotus Emira, and while it felt agile (and is probably a better, easier, more modern car to drive fast), I missed the V12 and steering feel of mine immediately. Tried the 2019 DBS, and Its good, but too Auto box GT. In both cases, when I got back into mine, The Vantage felt so much more connected. And noisy. And then tiring lol.
I could go for a V12VS manual, but it’s a big step up at £50k. Also as mentioned, I am very happy with the SS3 and may even regret that change.
So I may keep for another year, as for all its little faults, this car is epic and gets under your skin when you drive it. Or I do sell, and feel sad, but buy a manual Boxster S for summer, as that would be a good firebreak.
So last May 23, I bought the least desirable spec ((based on reviews and forum posts) V12VS - sport seats and SS. I made sure it was one of the cheapest main dealer cars, and I got 2 years warranty.
The first few weeks, I did think I couldn’t get on with the SS3. I went in eyes wide open, I wanted an involving drive and knew it was a manual with an automatic clutch but wow, it takes a lot of practice to get a smooth change consistently, and can be very frustrating at the beginning.
However now it’s so rewarding you feel tightly connected to the car, as close to a manual with paddles you can get. You drive it like a manual. On fast road, you may stay in third for long stretches, or fourth, rather than changing up to top gear. Most gears have lots of pull.
?The super positive thing about SS3, is when you pull the paddle, it changes gear. No question, no lag, no hesitation, it’s connected. You then just need to make sure you use the right amount go liftoff for gear, speed, throttle and incline to make it smooth.
I also love how much feel you get from the steering and chassis. You can drive over a packet of crisps and even tell what flavour it is! Although this means long trips can be tiring. Perhaps the worst is a road noise from the tires. A post in here recommend use noise cancelling AirPods, and that does work.
I did not like the Pirelli‘s Pzero’s that car came with (they were new). When they were cold the grip was terrible and I never really felt like they warmed up. Speaking to AM performance, they said try P4S4 so I put Michelin on. I had hoped this would also reduce road noise but it didn’t, but they are far more predicable and sure footed, even in cold temps.
The engine is a masterpiece and gives the car is its character. Its linear. Yet lots of torque. It has not used a drop of oil either over 4k miles. Very impressive.
I also installed Aston installations CarPlay very early on, and a front camera (to protect that low carbon splitter) which fixed the tech. The little idrive they fit is a safe way to interact without having to look at a touch screen. Also got them to put Aston red seatbelts in and retain my labels (they used the Aston supplier for this).
Finally the seats, I actually like them. I used the heated seats a lot, as I drive the car a couple of times a month over winter on dry but cold days. Scotland roadtrip in April they were essential when it was 3c outside.
??So do I have the least desirable spec V12VS? Not for me!?
But I have put 4k miles on, so now at 19,500. I am worried about hitting 20k, but looking at the market this may be ok. But now need to work out to stick or twist.
The car still has another 12 months AM warranty on it.
I tried a friends lotus Emira, and while it felt agile (and is probably a better, easier, more modern car to drive fast), I missed the V12 and steering feel of mine immediately. Tried the 2019 DBS, and Its good, but too Auto box GT. In both cases, when I got back into mine, The Vantage felt so much more connected. And noisy. And then tiring lol.
I could go for a V12VS manual, but it’s a big step up at £50k. Also as mentioned, I am very happy with the SS3 and may even regret that change.
So I may keep for another year, as for all its little faults, this car is epic and gets under your skin when you drive it. Or I do sell, and feel sad, but buy a manual Boxster S for summer, as that would be a good firebreak.
Edited by PHFS on Friday 24th May 15:09
Edited by PHFS on Friday 24th May 15:09
alscar said:
Keep the V12, have the Windows down , feel happy.
It is amazing with the windows down. Dare I say, it can get to loud, especially under bridges or tunnels. J77wck said:
If you like the car keep it, if you are worried about losing money sell it and dont buy another sports car.
I chose this car both for the VH Vantage peak chassis, V12 and it seemed to be the least worse option at loosing money. I think I’ve done ok, even with 4K miles a year. MMarkM said:
Looks good to me!
Yeap. I think it’s stunning and I got my fav colour and love the contrast red parts of the Interior and callipers RSTurboPaul said:
How much would it cost to take it to AM and get a gearbox swap?
I bet that would be v expensive. Maybe 10 or 20k then you are never going to get the money back compared to an original manual. Not sure if I’m reading your post correctly, but what you seem to be worried about is what other people think of the spec???
If you like the car, keep it. If you’d prefer something different, change it.
If the extra £50k for a manual is an option, and you like the current car, the obvious question is why not spend that on something else to sit alongside the current car?
Fwiw, I have SS3 in the Vanquish S. I don’t understand the negativity towards that gearbox. I also have a 7spd manual in a V12VS. That gearbox is not as intuitive or easy to drive as other manual boxes, to the extent that for a while I thought I had made a very poor choice in buying one. It gets better with more miles/familiarity, but don’t automatically assume you’ll love it just because other people say it’s better.
If you like the car, keep it. If you’d prefer something different, change it.
If the extra £50k for a manual is an option, and you like the current car, the obvious question is why not spend that on something else to sit alongside the current car?
Fwiw, I have SS3 in the Vanquish S. I don’t understand the negativity towards that gearbox. I also have a 7spd manual in a V12VS. That gearbox is not as intuitive or easy to drive as other manual boxes, to the extent that for a while I thought I had made a very poor choice in buying one. It gets better with more miles/familiarity, but don’t automatically assume you’ll love it just because other people say it’s better.
I bought my 2014 V12Vs in January and have covered just over a thousand miles so far... I love it, I'm sure there are more accomplished cars that I could have bought for the money, but for me it has the right blend of everything I want, looks, power, handling and wow factor... The newer cars are starting to grow on me, I haven't driven one, but couldn't afford one anyway.. Being the last of the naturally aspirated V12s is pretty special... and as you say that feeling of connectivity is awesome.. I'll be keeping mine for as long as I can and putting as many miles on it as possible..
I had one of the early manual cars back in 2011 - perfect spec, lightweight seats, B&O - I was so worried about putting miles on it that it became a garage queen, not this time!!
I don't have the B&O this time around, the only thing I miss about that is the tweeters rising from the dash LOL...
I had one of the early manual cars back in 2011 - perfect spec, lightweight seats, B&O - I was so worried about putting miles on it that it became a garage queen, not this time!!
I don't have the B&O this time around, the only thing I miss about that is the tweeters rising from the dash LOL...
Don’t worry what some might think of the spec of your car. There are many more including I who think that spec is great.
Interesting that you chose to ignore all the negative comments about the automated box, go in open minded, take the time to get used to it and then discover what many on here did, which is that the funky automated system, especially the later versions, works well with the car and is very enjoyable and rewarding due to the required driver interaction.
I have a SS2 and wondered about making it into a manual some time ago. It is essentially the same ‘box, all needed would be removal of the automation gubbins, sensors, control buttons, paddles and control unit (TCU), then you’d need linkages, stick and surround, the 3rd pedal, master and reservoir, and a new top waterfall minus the button holes. There would need also to be ECU update to delete all the expected TCU inputs. Also the transmission itself apparently needs opening to replace a couple of shifter mechanism components which are different between the manual and automated versions of the transmission. Since Graziano (UK) closed, there are possibly few specialists in the UK who could do this. It might even require the box being sent to Italy or Germany for the rework.
I wondered if a specialist might engage, due to there being maybe a potential market for V12 SS to manual conversions (like there is for the original Vanq) with the insane price difference between V12 SS and manual, there’s a thread on it here somewhere.
The conclusion was that the costs would probably end up pushing £20k and it wouldn’t be guaranteed that a defenestrated automated manual car would approach the value of a ‘genuine manual’, same as your own conclusion.
I dont understand the price difference. The V12 Vantage is of course a brilliant car, and the SS3 suits it well, works well, and does offer an involving drive with its own unique character, especially, as you correctly say, when you learn how to use it and interact with it properly. Fewer manuals exist because original customers just didn’t want them, but now everyone seems to. Go figure.
If the itch for the V12 S manual remains maybe try to get a drive. There were lots of reports of the dog leg being a bit tricky with significant potential for a ‘money shift’, but again, that is just as likely to be down to journalists and youtubers not taking the time to learn to use it properly.
The 6 speed manual box in the earlier V12V (and the V8s) is well regarded, being generally considered easier to use and robust. However, having become accustomed to the multiple dynamic and other improvements made to the later V12S, automated or not, you might not be able to get comfortable with an earlier car.
Interesting that you chose to ignore all the negative comments about the automated box, go in open minded, take the time to get used to it and then discover what many on here did, which is that the funky automated system, especially the later versions, works well with the car and is very enjoyable and rewarding due to the required driver interaction.
I have a SS2 and wondered about making it into a manual some time ago. It is essentially the same ‘box, all needed would be removal of the automation gubbins, sensors, control buttons, paddles and control unit (TCU), then you’d need linkages, stick and surround, the 3rd pedal, master and reservoir, and a new top waterfall minus the button holes. There would need also to be ECU update to delete all the expected TCU inputs. Also the transmission itself apparently needs opening to replace a couple of shifter mechanism components which are different between the manual and automated versions of the transmission. Since Graziano (UK) closed, there are possibly few specialists in the UK who could do this. It might even require the box being sent to Italy or Germany for the rework.
I wondered if a specialist might engage, due to there being maybe a potential market for V12 SS to manual conversions (like there is for the original Vanq) with the insane price difference between V12 SS and manual, there’s a thread on it here somewhere.
The conclusion was that the costs would probably end up pushing £20k and it wouldn’t be guaranteed that a defenestrated automated manual car would approach the value of a ‘genuine manual’, same as your own conclusion.
I dont understand the price difference. The V12 Vantage is of course a brilliant car, and the SS3 suits it well, works well, and does offer an involving drive with its own unique character, especially, as you correctly say, when you learn how to use it and interact with it properly. Fewer manuals exist because original customers just didn’t want them, but now everyone seems to. Go figure.
If the itch for the V12 S manual remains maybe try to get a drive. There were lots of reports of the dog leg being a bit tricky with significant potential for a ‘money shift’, but again, that is just as likely to be down to journalists and youtubers not taking the time to learn to use it properly.
The 6 speed manual box in the earlier V12V (and the V8s) is well regarded, being generally considered easier to use and robust. However, having become accustomed to the multiple dynamic and other improvements made to the later V12S, automated or not, you might not be able to get comfortable with an earlier car.
Edited by Calinours on Saturday 25th May 09:33
LooneyTunes said:
Fwiw, I have SS3 in the Vanquish S. I don’t understand the negativity towards that gearbox. I also have a 7spd manual in a V12VS.
Gaydon Vanquish isn’t SS3, it’s a ZF torque converter automatic gearbox as opposed to the automated manual clutch of the SS3. I’ve owned my SS3 V12VSR for almost 9 years now, considered changing for the stick shift manual when they came out but decided to keep mine as I love the gearbox, it needs some input to get the gearshift right and I personally think it’s the best of both worlds once mastered.
To the OP: I love the spec of your car, it’s a Vantage with a V12 engine, it’s wonderful, wonderful, wonderful in any spec! Just keep it forever!
I'd also say keep it... You will not only be sorry you sold the Aston, but sorry you bought a Boxster seeking something the V12VS didnt offer you.... I sold my 2nd V12V 6spd for a Cayman GT4 and found it a huge step down from the Aston in day to day driving smiles. Sure it was an amazing car driven at very high speeds on twisty lanes, but for 99% of the time and as a daily for me, the V12V was just a lot more fun. I think with a regular boxster you'd be even more disappointed after coming from a V12VS too! That's a better Aston to a worse Porsche than the jump I made so a much bigger gap I suspect.
Sold the GT4 within a few months and ordered my current V12VSM, which 7 and a half years later I am still over the moon with and its deffo a keeper.
If you like the seats and the gearbox, as you do, then dont worry what journos say or misinformed mates down the boozer say, if you like them both thats all that counts. Whilst on balance there are more people that seem to like the lightweight seats, myself included, they arn't universally for everyone. Likewise both SSIII and the 7spd are both somewhat misunderstood by journos and pub aficionados too, both take time to get used to. As a weekend car, SSIII is probably a better choice as its much less of a learning curve if you keep swapping to it from a normal daily driver.
Finally if you're looking at £50k to swap then I assume you've spotted the V12VSM for £110k, which is undoubtably a bargain, so I assume you've been offered around £60k for the V12VS. Its a big step up to double the investment, but it would be a much later car too and that brings a lot of improvements too as AM constantly tinkered and improved things year on year. The infotainment in AMi III and revised waterfall is the most obvious improvement, so you may derive some value from those too. That said, that Flugplatz car seems to have stuck around for a long time despite being a manual and having lightweight seats, so I suspect the condition may be something to inspect carefully. Mileage is slightly high for what it is, but nothing to be worried about really as long as the condition is good. There's an Alloro Green car for £5k more too to consider, but even higher mileage on that one, but same applies.
WIth £50k spare budget, Id say keep the V12VS, buy a boxster as well, likely realise it isn't what you hoped for, sell it and feel reassured you made the right choice keeping the V12VS after all!
Sold the GT4 within a few months and ordered my current V12VSM, which 7 and a half years later I am still over the moon with and its deffo a keeper.
If you like the seats and the gearbox, as you do, then dont worry what journos say or misinformed mates down the boozer say, if you like them both thats all that counts. Whilst on balance there are more people that seem to like the lightweight seats, myself included, they arn't universally for everyone. Likewise both SSIII and the 7spd are both somewhat misunderstood by journos and pub aficionados too, both take time to get used to. As a weekend car, SSIII is probably a better choice as its much less of a learning curve if you keep swapping to it from a normal daily driver.
Finally if you're looking at £50k to swap then I assume you've spotted the V12VSM for £110k, which is undoubtably a bargain, so I assume you've been offered around £60k for the V12VS. Its a big step up to double the investment, but it would be a much later car too and that brings a lot of improvements too as AM constantly tinkered and improved things year on year. The infotainment in AMi III and revised waterfall is the most obvious improvement, so you may derive some value from those too. That said, that Flugplatz car seems to have stuck around for a long time despite being a manual and having lightweight seats, so I suspect the condition may be something to inspect carefully. Mileage is slightly high for what it is, but nothing to be worried about really as long as the condition is good. There's an Alloro Green car for £5k more too to consider, but even higher mileage on that one, but same applies.
WIth £50k spare budget, Id say keep the V12VS, buy a boxster as well, likely realise it isn't what you hoped for, sell it and feel reassured you made the right choice keeping the V12VS after all!
Calinours said:
Don’t worry what some might think of the spec of your car. There are many more including I who think that spec is great.
Interesting that you chose to ignore all the negative comments about the automated box, go in open minded, take the time to get used to it and then discover what many on here did, which is that the funky automated system, especially the later versions, works well with the car and is very enjoyable and rewarding due to the required driver interaction.
I have a SS2 and wondered about making it into a manual some time ago. It is essentially the same ‘box, all needed would be removal of the automation gubbins, sensors, control buttons, paddles and control unit (TCU), then you’d need linkages, stick and surround, the 3rd pedal, master and reservoir, and a new top waterfall minus the button holes. There would need also to be ECU update to delete all the expected TCU inputs. Also the transmission itself apparently needs opening to replace a couple of shifter mechanism components which are different between the manual and automated versions of the transmission. Since Graziano (UK) closed, there are possibly few specialists in the UK who could do this. It might even require the box being sent to Italy or Germany for the rework.
I wondered if a specialist might engage, due to there being maybe a potential market for V12 SS to manual conversions (like there is for the original Vanq) with the insane price difference between V12 SS and manual, there’s a thread on it here somewhere.
The conclusion was that the costs would probably end up pushing £20k and it wouldn’t be guaranteed that a defenestrated automated manual car would approach the value of a ‘genuine manual’, same as your own conclusion.
I dont understand the price difference. The V12 Vantage is of course a brilliant car, and the SS3 suits it well, works well, and does offer an involving drive with its own unique character, especially, as you correctly say, when you learn how to use it and interact with it properly. Fewer manuals exist because original customers just didn’t want them, but now everyone seems to. Go figure.
If the itch for the V12 S manual remains maybe try to get a drive. There were lots of reports of the dog leg being a bit tricky with significant potential for a ‘money shift’, but again, that is just as likely to be down to journalists and youtubers not taking the time to learn to use it properly.
The 6 speed manual box in the earlier V12V (and the V8s) is well regarded, being generally considered easier to use and robust. However, having become accustomed to the multiple dynamic and other improvements made to the later V12S, automated or not, you might not be able to get comfortable with an earlier car.
Fewer manuals exist because the box was only offered in limited numbers in the final two years of the production run. SS3 only from launch, with the manual coming later during MY16. Interesting that you chose to ignore all the negative comments about the automated box, go in open minded, take the time to get used to it and then discover what many on here did, which is that the funky automated system, especially the later versions, works well with the car and is very enjoyable and rewarding due to the required driver interaction.
I have a SS2 and wondered about making it into a manual some time ago. It is essentially the same ‘box, all needed would be removal of the automation gubbins, sensors, control buttons, paddles and control unit (TCU), then you’d need linkages, stick and surround, the 3rd pedal, master and reservoir, and a new top waterfall minus the button holes. There would need also to be ECU update to delete all the expected TCU inputs. Also the transmission itself apparently needs opening to replace a couple of shifter mechanism components which are different between the manual and automated versions of the transmission. Since Graziano (UK) closed, there are possibly few specialists in the UK who could do this. It might even require the box being sent to Italy or Germany for the rework.
I wondered if a specialist might engage, due to there being maybe a potential market for V12 SS to manual conversions (like there is for the original Vanq) with the insane price difference between V12 SS and manual, there’s a thread on it here somewhere.
The conclusion was that the costs would probably end up pushing £20k and it wouldn’t be guaranteed that a defenestrated automated manual car would approach the value of a ‘genuine manual’, same as your own conclusion.
I dont understand the price difference. The V12 Vantage is of course a brilliant car, and the SS3 suits it well, works well, and does offer an involving drive with its own unique character, especially, as you correctly say, when you learn how to use it and interact with it properly. Fewer manuals exist because original customers just didn’t want them, but now everyone seems to. Go figure.
If the itch for the V12 S manual remains maybe try to get a drive. There were lots of reports of the dog leg being a bit tricky with significant potential for a ‘money shift’, but again, that is just as likely to be down to journalists and youtubers not taking the time to learn to use it properly.
The 6 speed manual box in the earlier V12V (and the V8s) is well regarded, being generally considered easier to use and robust. However, having become accustomed to the multiple dynamic and other improvements made to the later V12S, automated or not, you might not be able to get comfortable with an earlier car.
Edited by Calinours on Saturday 25th May 09:33
For the years they were produced MY16 & 17 - more customers specced the manual than SS3.
AMRicardo said:
Fewer manuals exist because the box was only offered in limited numbers in the final two years of the production run. SS3 only from launch, with the manual coming later during MY16.
For the years they were produced MY16 & 17 - more customers specced the manual than SS3.
Indeed, thats a key reason why they are much rarer. For the years they were produced MY16 & 17 - more customers specced the manual than SS3.
In fact production started late 2016 and were all MY17 or the final few early MY18 cars. The very first MY17 cars were delivered around October 2016, so its less than 2years production in total, more like 18mths including the AMR V12VSM's. MY16 cars had the waterfall but with AMi II not AMi III and the dogleg manual was not available.
The jump in value is in part because of the gearbox, but also because they are almost certainly newer cars with less mileage associated due to age also.
Edited by AdamV12V on Saturday 25th May 10:36
For me you have the perfect spec car, both with the SS3 and comfort seats. I flirt with the idea of returning to AM ownership sometimes and yours is a car I'd want if I did. For me the lightweight seats look a bit aftermarket and don't flow with the rest of the interior (personal taste, not looking for argument). You have got used to the car, you know the car so I'd keep. Forking out an additional 50k for a similar car with a stick seems madness to me.
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