2013 V8 Vantage Won't Start. Does this sound like battery?

[AlexNJ89]

Went to start a 2013 V8 Vantage S which has been standing at a dealership for 4 weeks. It hasn't had any long runs and been moved around a lot.

2 weeks ago I started it and stopped it perfectly fine, no hesitation on startup or indication the battery may be low.

I went to start the car today and everything worked, car unlocked, folding mirrors, radio etc.

I didn't hear the ASM come to life when I opened the driver door.

When I pushed the ECU I could hear some noise from the front, almost a hydraulic noise plus some clicking then it gave up.

It showed the following messages:
FAULT GEAR SHIFT NOT POSSIBLE
ENGINE SERVICE REQUIRED
EMISSION SYSTEM SERVICE REQUIRED

We plugged in a high powered jump pack but nothing, we first tried under the bonnet then directly to the battery.

Does this sound like it's going to be a battery?

Should my next move be charging the battery or should I just go buy a new battery?

I've googled the issue and seen people say that it could be battery, fuse or broken ASM pump. But no one seems to have had the same messages that I have.

Thanks

[Simpo Two]

If my experiences are anything to go by Astons don't like being left for more than a week.

I suspect the last dregs of your battery were used up when you unlocked the car. In fact the handbook for a DB9, and I presume others, say something to the effect that every time you start the car you have to drive 35 miles to replace the charge.

When my car developed symptoms like yours I got one of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09FKXHW2R/ and it brought the battery back to life. Now if I'm not going to use the car for a few days I keep it plugged into a conditioner, and everything is fine.

[AlexNJ89]

Simpo Two said:

If my experiences are anything to go by Astons don't like being left for more than a week.

I suspect the last dregs of your battery were used up when you unlocked the car. In fact the handbook for a DB9, and I presume others, say something to the effect that every time you start the car you have to drive 35 miles to replace the charge.

When my car developed symptoms like yours I got one of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09FKXHW2R/ and it brought the battery back to life. Now if I'm not going to use the car for a few days I keep it plugged into a conditioner, and everything is fine.

Thanks!

How long did you have to leave the battery on charge?

[Calinours]

From description, it appears highly likely to be a dying battery. Apply all effort to persuading the owner/custodian to replace the battery.

[AlexNJ89]

Calinours said:

From description, it appears highly likely to be a dying battery. Apply all effort to persuading the owner/custodian to replace the battery.

Thanks.

Do you think a few hours charge would at least get me started?

[Simpo Two]

AlexNJ89 said:

Thanks!

How long did you have to leave the battery on charge?

I can't remember exactly but it was 12-24 hours to do it properly. Follow the instructions; the unit doesn't just pump electricity in, it goes through various stages. It takes as long as it takes; you want the battery charged correctly not quickly so I wouldn't take it off halfway.

[Calinours]

AlexNJ89 said:

Calinours said:

From description, it appears highly likely to be a dying battery. Apply all effort to persuading the owner/custodian to replace the battery.

Thanks.

Do you think a few hours charge would at least get me started?

You can try to charge - Depends on the condition of the battery. Depending on the charger, 12-24h should be sufficient for you to start the car. You don’t say if it’s your car?

I am surprised the dealer isn’t already recommending a new battery if it’s a specialist.

Be very careful with jump starting and with very high power charging. The ECU and various control modules in these cars are not robust. It is very possible to fry the body control module. As Simpo suggests, the safest way to charge your battery in the car is with a high quality 5A conditioner, eg CTek.

If the electrical problems don’t vanish once the battery is charged, or the later come back, then immediately try a new battery.

These cars can really eat batteries and in a short space of time - especially where a tracker has not been disabled or where there are lots of ignition on, power up, pump run but no proper run situations (ie moving around at a dealer). The more a lead acid battery has been discharged, and the greater the depth of discharge, the shorter it’s life. A new lead acid battery that is regularly allowed to fully discharge will not last a year. They are capable of approx 250-300 charge-discharge cycles where maximum discharge is 50%. The number of charge discharge cycles increases dramatically when discharge is limited. You can get 2000-3000 cycles if a lead acid battery is never discharged by more than 10%. Around 8-9 years max.

Batteries are consumables and sadly they do degrade quick in these cars due to the high parasitic loss of their gen of the various systems, alarms etc. The lead plates sulphate and they lose both charge (Ah) and cranking (CCA) capacity over time. So it’s quite likely that one which has reached a point where the remaining charge capacity it has is fully discharged by parasitics in a few weeks may be at least partially degraded. Even partial battery
degredation can lead to spurious electrical messages in these cars - as well as rapidly discharging batteries, they are sensitive to battery voltage.

As so many of us eventually learn with these cars - the best course of action is to fit a new battery and if possible keep it on a conditioner to prolong its life. It also makes so many of those random electrical gremlins and error messages disappear. Batteries are cheap if a little bit of a PITA to fit behind the drivers seat. Make sure the battery earth strap is tight at both ends.

[AlexNJ89]

Calinours said:

You can try to charge - Depends on the condition of the battery. Depending on the charger, 12-24h should be sufficient for you to start the car. You don’t say if it’s your car?

I am surprised the dealer isn’t already recommending a new battery if it’s a specialist.

Be very careful with jump starting and with very high power charging. The ECU and various control modules in these cars are not robust. It is very possible to fry the body control module. As Simpo suggests, the safest way to charge your battery in the car is with a high quality 5A conditioner, eg CTek.

If the electrical problems don’t vanish once the battery is charged, or the later come back, then immediately try a new battery.

These cars can really eat batteries and in a short space of time - especially where a tracker has not been disabled or where there are lots of ignition on, power up, pump run but no proper run situations (ie moving around at a dealer). The more a lead acid battery has been discharged, and the greater the depth of discharge, the shorter it’s life. A new lead acid battery that is regularly allowed to fully discharge will not last a year. They are capable of approx 250-300 charge-discharge cycles where maximum discharge is 50%. The number of charge discharge cycles increases dramatically when discharge is limited. You can get 2000-3000 cycles if a lead acid battery is never discharged by more than 10%. Around 8-9 years max.

Batteries are consumables and sadly they do degrade quick in these cars due to the high parasitic loss of their gen of the various systems, alarms etc. The lead plates sulphate and they lose both charge (Ah) and cranking (CCA) capacity over time. So it’s quite likely that one which has reached a point where the remaining charge capacity it has is fully discharged by parasitics in a few weeks may be at least partially degraded. Even partial battery
degredation can lead to spurious electrical messages in these cars - as well as rapidly discharging batteries, they are sensitive to battery voltage.

As so many of us eventually learn with these cars - the best course of action is to fit a new battery and if possible keep it on a conditioner to prolong its life. It also makes so many of those random electrical gremlins and error messages disappear. Batteries are cheap if a little bit of a PITA to fit behind the drivers seat. Make sure the battery earth strap is tight at both ends.

Thank you, I really appreciate you taking the time to write that out as it's exactly the info I was looking for. Especially in regards to the safety of jump starting.

The car was on Sale or Return at a dealership, then the guy took it back after no sale and left it.

So I got a deal on the car, made the payment and came to pick it up but the battery is dead. So it's kind of my car kind of not.

[Calinours]

No problem. Absolutely don’t let a dying or discharged battery put you off the car if it’s otherwise good. They are only £150 - it’s probably the smallest bill the car will throw up. Assuming care is taken to recharge as above, and a good period on charge does not completely resolve the situation - I’d push the dealer to fit a new battery - they should have known enough to keep it on conditioner/regularly charged.

Again - if you are assuming ownership, be very mindful of what the dealer does to recharge the battery lest they do much more expensive damage to the control modules with sparking terminals etc. It’s one reason why most of us use only specialists to buy/prep/repair and service these cars.

Other than the ‘annual service required’ (self explanatory) - If the fault messages remain or post read/acknowledge and the inevitable dealer OBD interrogation, return even with a new battery - walk away or renegotiate.

Good luck

[AlexNJ89]

Calinours said:

No problem. Absolutely don’t let a dying or discharged battery put you off the car if it’s otherwise good. They are only £150 - it’s probably the smallest bill the car will throw up. Assuming care is taken to recharge as above, and a good period on charge does not completely resolve the situation - I’d push the dealer to fit a new battery - they should have known enough to keep it on conditioner/regularly charged.

Again - if you are assuming ownership, be very mindful of what the dealer does to recharge the battery lest they do much more expensive damage to the control modules with sparking terminals etc. It’s one reason why most of us use only specialists to buy/prep/repair and service these cars.

Other than the ‘annual service required’ (self explanatory) - If the fault messages remain or post read/acknowledge and the inevitable dealer OBD interrogation, return even with a new battery - walk away or renegotiate.

Good luck

Thanks

[rev-erend]

Forget all the past history..

Starting is all about battery condition and its voltage.

A good fit battery will be showing 12.6 ~ 12.8 volts before you start.

They will often start with less.. say 11.8 but as soon as its in the 10's it's a wing and a prayer.

As others have said, a battery trickle charger like a ctek can help to keep it in top condition but cannot fix a knackered battery. They usually have a year of manufacture on them..

[AlexNJ89]

Thanks guys.

So we identified that Fuse 8 had blown. We put in a new fuse and also a new relay.

It got the car going and driving.

But I managed about 5 miles before the car got stuck in 3rd gear.

The fuse had blown again.

I had a box of fuses with me and every time I put a new one in and started the car it blew.

I got the car transported to Bamford Rose for diagnosis.

[Go60 Jay]

Not the best start to your ownership, but I hope B&R with all their experience can quickly find and fix the fault. I should also hope the garage will pay for it.

Good luck,
John

[Calinours]

AlexNJ89 said:

Thanks guys.

So we identified that Fuse 8 had blown. We put in a new fuse and also a new relay.

It got the car going and driving.

But I managed about 5 miles before the car got stuck in 3rd gear.

The fuse had blown again.

I had a box of fuses with me and every time I put a new one in and started the car it blew.

I got the car transported to Bamford Rose for diagnosis.

It’s in the most capable hands. Assuming nobody has been buggering around with the loom, Blowing fuses is most often a failing/failed component. A pump or sensor. The most common components that fail and blow fuses are the washer pumps (both).

[AlexNJ89]

Calinours said:

It’s in the most capable hands. Assuming nobody has been buggering around with the loom, Blowing fuses is most often a failing/failed component. A pump or sensor. The most common components that fail and blow fuses are the washer pumps (both).

It's with Bamford Rose at the moment. Clutch is at 1710 at the moment which is about 85% worn, so will probably have to get that done while it's in there.

They haven't done a deep dive inspection yet.

Mike said the ASM pump looks new. He said he's plugged the computer in and the car can shift through the gears without a hitch. He's done a couple of road tests and the car has ran faultlessly on those road tests. If it were to blow again he'd advise changing the pump again. But again, he said don't take that as gospel until he's done the proper inspection.

Most annoyingly, he said that my headlight LEDs are broken which needs both units replacing. But that is one thing I triple checked before buying the car so I'm wondering if something has blown from the jump starts or something...

I've done some reading and there doesn't seem to be a control unit for them, it is embedded within the housing of the headlight which really sucks.

[anyoldcardave]

AlexNJ89 said:

Thanks guys.

So we identified that Fuse 8 had blown. We put in a new fuse and also a new relay.

It got the car going and driving.

But I managed about 5 miles before the car got stuck in 3rd gear.

The fuse had blown again.

I had a box of fuses with me and every time I put a new one in and started the car it blew.

I got the car transported to Bamford Rose for diagnosis.

This happens a lot on Ford cars, or Ford built cars, even if the battery is seemingly good, fuses blow, they often throw up gearbox faults on auto cars.

Did Ford not have a go with Astons. ?

Change the battery for a new quality one before going further.

[AlexNJ89]

anyoldcardave said:

This happens a lot on Ford cars, or Ford built cars, even if the battery is seemingly good, fuses blow, they often throw up gearbox faults on auto cars.

Did Ford not have a go with Astons. ?

Change the battery for a new quality one before going further.

Thanks, I will do.

I wonder if Bamford Rose have left the battery on charge which is why it's operating fine now

[anyoldcardave]

AlexNJ89 said:

Thanks, I will do.

I wonder if Bamford Rose have left the battery on charge which is why it's operating fine now

I charged the battery from an X-type jag that is problematic today, it was starting the car before I charged it, but would not once charged, threw a used one on it, started and did not throw up the gearbox fault it was on the drive home. previously it was within 10 miles and going limp.

A local guy I don,t like spent 3 days turning over his car, called the RAC, who said it was an immobiliser fault lol, eventually he got someone to ask me, my reply was replace the battery, they said its not that lol, as it turns over no problem, another day, they went to Halfords, guess what happened?

Another Ford from around 2013,auto, was taken to main agent, they said it needs a new gearbox, it sat in the car park for 6 weeks, I bought it.

Battery was completely flat, started with a jump, sure enough, gearbox was all over the place wonky, put a known good battery on it back at the yard, and guess what........?

Before you spend money on diagnostics, put a new battery on it, they probably won,t check it, and plugging it in will only tell them if it is not charging.

Worst ways, your battery that has been a battery too long, will have years ahead of it.

[AlexNJ89]

anyoldcardave said:

I charged the battery from an X-type jag that is problematic today, it was starting the car before I charged it, but would not once charged, threw a used one on it, started and did not throw up the gearbox fault it was on the drive home. previously it was within 10 miles and going limp.

A local guy I don,t like spent 3 days turning over his car, called the RAC, who said it was an immobiliser fault lol, eventually he got someone to ask me, my reply was replace the battery, they said its not that lol, as it turns over no problem, another day, they went to Halfords, guess what happened?

Another Ford from around 2013,auto, was taken to main agent, they said it needs a new gearbox, it sat in the car park for 6 weeks, I bought it.

Battery was completely flat, started with a jump, sure enough, gearbox was all over the place wonky, put a known good battery on it back at the yard, and guess what........?

Before you spend money on diagnostics, put a new battery on it, they probably won,t check it, and plugging it in will only tell them if it is not charging.

Worst ways, your battery that has been a battery too long, will have years ahead of it.

Yep, I'll get one fitted.