AMHT Generation 1 Vanquish Video
Discussion
Finally everyone can see the truth about the gearbox and how it is great if you know how to drive it correctly. It is of its time, but it is great to use.
https://youtu.be/ddBo1_gVuc4
https://youtu.be/ddBo1_gVuc4
VanquishRider said:
Finally everyone can see the truth about the gearbox and how it is great if you know how to drive it correctly. It is of its time, but it is great to use.
https://youtu.be/ddBo1_gVuc4
That was genuinely very interesting, particularly the differences in operation between the earliest incarnation (I believe) of the ASM in an Aston and the SSII in my V8V.https://youtu.be/ddBo1_gVuc4
In particular, the SSII won't slip the clutch when in too high a gear, as it will change down even when in manual mode (this can lead to excitement if it does it at the same time you do, or when you give the car some throttle to go for a gap). Changing between 1st and reverse seems to be a lot more faff in the Vanquish too.
Finally (and I'm willing to have the more knowledgable correct me here) I don't think the SSII will close the clutch if you put the car into neutral, which Les implies the Vanquish will do. So there's no real benefit bothering on an SSII. However all of the points about gear selection and mechanical sympathy apply equally.
Here's (a much younger) Les demonstrating the SSI (6-speed) in a Vantage when he was at Aston. I think he oversells the merits of that particular version a tad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqpSdgs5Fxs
LTP said:
That was genuinely very interesting, particularly the differences in operation between the earliest incarnation (I believe) of the ASM in an Aston and the SSII in my V8V.
In particular, the SSII won't slip the clutch when in too high a gear, as it will change down even when in manual mode (this can lead to excitement if it does it at the same time you do, or when you give the car some throttle to go for a gap). Changing between 1st and reverse seems to be a lot more faff in the Vanquish too.
Finally (and I'm willing to have the more knowledgable correct me here) I don't think the SSII will close the clutch if you put the car into neutral, which Les implies the Vanquish will do. So there's no real benefit bothering on an SSII. However all of the points about gear selection and mechanical sympathy apply equally.
Here's (a much younger) Les demonstrating the SSI (6-speed) in a Vantage when he was at Aston. I think he oversells the merits of that particular version a tad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqpSdgs5Fxs
The Vanquish will auto downshift in manual mode if the driver fails to. Imperceptibly so if you are just coasting down to a slower speed. It is very smooth when driven with a tiny bit of sympathy. In particular, the SSII won't slip the clutch when in too high a gear, as it will change down even when in manual mode (this can lead to excitement if it does it at the same time you do, or when you give the car some throttle to go for a gap). Changing between 1st and reverse seems to be a lot more faff in the Vanquish too.
Finally (and I'm willing to have the more knowledgable correct me here) I don't think the SSII will close the clutch if you put the car into neutral, which Les implies the Vanquish will do. So there's no real benefit bothering on an SSII. However all of the points about gear selection and mechanical sympathy apply equally.
Here's (a much younger) Les demonstrating the SSI (6-speed) in a Vantage when he was at Aston. I think he oversells the merits of that particular version a tad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqpSdgs5Fxs
Reverse to 1st, is simply 2 rapid pulls of the paddle.
1st to reverse, simply 2 quick dabs of the reverse button.
The mistake road testers make is they forget you must do this with your foot on the brake. Something owners get very used to quickly.
You do find yourself a bit fingers and thumbs on the first weekend out of the year, but you soon get back into the rhythm of it all. If you spend the weekend away in the car it is absolutely 2nd nature by end of day 1. It is one of those things that makes the car charming and endearing, full of character.
LTP said:
VanquishRider said:
Finally everyone can see the truth about the gearbox and how it is great if you know how to drive it correctly. It is of its time, but it is great to use.
https://youtu.be/ddBo1_gVuc4
That was genuinely very interesting, particularly the differences in operation between the earliest incarnation (I believe) of the ASM in an Aston and the SSII in my V8V.https://youtu.be/ddBo1_gVuc4
In particular, the SSII won't slip the clutch when in too high a gear, as it will change down even when in manual mode (this can lead to excitement if it does it at the same time you do, or when you give the car some throttle to go for a gap). Changing between 1st and reverse seems to be a lot more faff in the Vanquish too.
Finally (and I'm willing to have the more knowledgable correct me here) I don't think the SSII will close the clutch if you put the car into neutral, which Les implies the Vanquish will do. So there's no real benefit bothering on an SSII. However all of the points about gear selection and mechanical sympathy apply equally.
Here's (a much younger) Les demonstrating the SSI (6-speed) in a Vantage when he was at Aston. I think he oversells the merits of that particular version a tad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqpSdgs5Fxs
Also putting the trans in neutral at a stop does not close the clutch; it remains open just as it does for SSII. The difference between in gear and in neutral is the open distance of the clutch. In neutral, the clutch is at max distance to engagement, while in gear, it’s roughly at 1/2 distance to engagement; the purpose being to reduce engagement time when moving off.
Les is either wrong, or is being misunderstood, or being incomplete in his explanation.
DB9VolanteDriver said:
The Vanq does not slip the clutch if in too high a gear; it downshifts. The only time it ‘slips’ the clutch is when moving off from a stop until engine rpm exceeds 1000 rpm or so, when it fully closes. The less time you spend above idle but below full closure rpm the better.
So basically the same as the SSII, the only small difference appearing to be the number of button presses/paddle pulls you need to move between 1st and reverse - the SSII only required one either wayDB9VolanteDriver said:
Also putting the trans in neutral at a stop does not close the clutch; it remains open just as it does for SSII. The difference between in gear and in neutral is the open distance of the clutch. In neutral, the clutch is at max distance to engagement, while in gear, it’s roughly at 1/2 distance to engagement; the purpose being to reduce engagement time when moving off.
Interesting. That is roughly in line with my understanding, but I didn't appreciate the half-distance in gear. ThanksEvery day is a school day
Another day, another excellent Vanquish Podcast.
https://amht.org.uk/podcast/episode-16-from-one-er...
https://amht.org.uk/podcast/episode-16-from-one-er...
DB9VolanteDriver said:
Also putting the trans in neutral at a stop does not close the clutch; it remains open just as it does for SSII. The difference between in gear and in neutral is the open distance of the clutch. In neutral, the clutch is at max distance to engagement, while in gear, it’s roughly at 1/2 distance to engagement; the purpose being to reduce engagement time when moving off.
This is also my understanding from past forum posts/discussions. I believe this applies to SSIII also.So this begs the question, is there any point in putting the car in neutral at a prolonged stop, say a long traffic light? Is there going to be any difference in wear while the clutch is at max distance versus 1/2 distance from being closed? Intuitively for me the answer is no, since it's still open no matter the distance, but my mechanical knowledge is limited.
Also of note, he mentions about 2/3 through the video that the 'Sport' button changes only shift speeds, not engine mapping. Is this true for later cars (SSIII)? My seat of the pants with SSIII on a V12VS tells me the sport button clearly makes the accelerator pedal more sensitive to a given input.
ridds said:
Press Neutral twice or pull the paddles twice.
You'll get the "Apply Handbrake" message.
That gives a true Neutral and closes the clutch.
I don’t think so. The double pull puts the car in neutral at “key off” so you can push it - that’s why you get the handbrake warning so the car doesn’t roll. Otherwise at “key off” the Sportshift engages a gear, either first or reverse.You'll get the "Apply Handbrake" message.
That gives a true Neutral and closes the clutch.
On the Vanquish, double pull stops the gearbox selecting 1st gear when the ignition is turned off. This has been known to be the source of some nasty crashes/incidents where a car has a low voltage for some reason, the gearbox (write off of one; 360s down a pit lane in another) deciding the ignition has been turned off, and selecting 1st gear.
quench said:
This is also my understanding from past forum posts/discussions. I believe this applies to SSIII also.
So this begs the question, is there any point in putting the car in neutral at a prolonged stop, say a long traffic light? Is there going to be any difference in wear while the clutch is at max distance versus 1/2 distance from being closed? Intuitively for me the answer is no, since it's still open no matter the distance, but my mechanical knowledge is limited.
Also of note, he mentions about 2/3 through the video that the 'Sport' button changes only shift speeds, not engine mapping. Is this true for later cars (SSIII)? My seat of the pants with SSIII on a V12VS tells me the sport button clearly makes the accelerator pedal more sensitive to a given input.
Yes, the advantage is that you are in neutral and can't suddenly accelerate if the throttle is pressed for any reason. However improbable it is still possible. In neutral it isn't. So this begs the question, is there any point in putting the car in neutral at a prolonged stop, say a long traffic light? Is there going to be any difference in wear while the clutch is at max distance versus 1/2 distance from being closed? Intuitively for me the answer is no, since it's still open no matter the distance, but my mechanical knowledge is limited.
Also of note, he mentions about 2/3 through the video that the 'Sport' button changes only shift speeds, not engine mapping. Is this true for later cars (SSIII)? My seat of the pants with SSIII on a V12VS tells me the sport button clearly makes the accelerator pedal more sensitive to a given input.
quench said:
This is also my understanding from past forum posts/discussions. I believe this applies to SSIII also.
So this begs the question, is there any point in putting the car in neutral at a prolonged stop, say a long traffic light? Is there going to be any difference in wear while the clutch is at max distance versus 1/2 distance from being closed? Intuitively for me the answer is no, since it's still open no matter the distance, but my mechanical knowledge is limited.
Also of note, he mentions about 2/3 through the video that the 'Sport' button changes only shift speeds, not engine mapping. Is this true for later cars (SSIII)? My seat of the pants with SSIII on a V12VS tells me the sport button clearly makes the accelerator pedal more sensitive to a given input.
For clarity:So this begs the question, is there any point in putting the car in neutral at a prolonged stop, say a long traffic light? Is there going to be any difference in wear while the clutch is at max distance versus 1/2 distance from being closed? Intuitively for me the answer is no, since it's still open no matter the distance, but my mechanical knowledge is limited.
Also of note, he mentions about 2/3 through the video that the 'Sport' button changes only shift speeds, not engine mapping. Is this true for later cars (SSIII)? My seat of the pants with SSIII on a V12VS tells me the sport button clearly makes the accelerator pedal more sensitive to a given input.
From the driving manual that Les wrote.
In neutral, clutch is open 30%
Gear selected, engine idling, clutch open 15%
Whilst driving, the vehicle systems will calculate the throttle opening, rpm and speed, and from this
determine how quickly each gearshift is made when pulling the ‘plus’ paddle. Imagine you are
driving a manual vehicle. If you are driving at a relaxed speed, your gearshifts will match that pace.
However, if you are driving faster, you will tend to make quicker gearshifts. The vehicle systems
operate the gearshift in the same way.
In SSM, if you do not make any gearshifts whilst accelerating, the vehicle systems will upshift at
7,000 rpm. If the rpm starts to fall too low when slowing down, the vehicle systems will downshift
to the next lower gear. As the vehicle comes to rest, the clutch will open preventing the vehicle
from stalling.
SSM Sport
In SSM the Sport button can be selected or deselected, either when the vehicle is stationary or on
the move. The Sport mode enables the vehicle to make quicker gearshifts but the relevant throttle
control will still need to be achieved. Sport mode only alters gearshift speed; it does not alter the
suspension or traction control settings.
In SSM Sport, the vehicle systems will not upshift at 7,000 rpm, instead the engine will go up to,
and hold, on the rev limiter at 7,200 rpm. However, the vehicles systems will downshift if the revs
are too low – exactly the same as SSM. In addition, in both SSM and SSM Sport, the vehicle
systems will only let you downshift if you are within a safe target rpm.
VanquishRider said:
For clarity:
From the driving manual that Les wrote.
In neutral, clutch is open 30%
Gear selected, engine idling, clutch open 15%
Whilst driving, the vehicle systems will calculate the throttle opening, rpm and speed, and from this
determine how quickly each gearshift is made when pulling the ‘plus’ paddle. Imagine you are
driving a manual vehicle. If you are driving at a relaxed speed, your gearshifts will match that pace.
However, if you are driving faster, you will tend to make quicker gearshifts. The vehicle systems
operate the gearshift in the same way.
In SSM, if you do not make any gearshifts whilst accelerating, the vehicle systems will upshift at
7,000 rpm. If the rpm starts to fall too low when slowing down, the vehicle systems will downshift
to the next lower gear. As the vehicle comes to rest, the clutch will open preventing the vehicle
from stalling.
SSM Sport
In SSM the Sport button can be selected or deselected, either when the vehicle is stationary or on
the move. The Sport mode enables the vehicle to make quicker gearshifts but the relevant throttle
control will still need to be achieved. Sport mode only alters gearshift speed; it does not alter the
suspension or traction control settings.
In SSM Sport, the vehicle systems will not upshift at 7,000 rpm, instead the engine will go up to,
and hold, on the rev limiter at 7,200 rpm. However, the vehicles systems will downshift if the revs
are too low – exactly the same as SSM. In addition, in both SSM and SSM Sport, the vehicle
systems will only let you downshift if you are within a safe target rpm.
Thanks, lots of interesting info but doesn't really address my question, which was basically: is there any reduction in clutch wear by putting the car in neutral at a prolonged stop, as you would in a clutch pedal manual? I'm assuming the answer would apply to later versions of SS including SSIII but I suppose that is a big assumption.From the driving manual that Les wrote.
In neutral, clutch is open 30%
Gear selected, engine idling, clutch open 15%
Whilst driving, the vehicle systems will calculate the throttle opening, rpm and speed, and from this
determine how quickly each gearshift is made when pulling the ‘plus’ paddle. Imagine you are
driving a manual vehicle. If you are driving at a relaxed speed, your gearshifts will match that pace.
However, if you are driving faster, you will tend to make quicker gearshifts. The vehicle systems
operate the gearshift in the same way.
In SSM, if you do not make any gearshifts whilst accelerating, the vehicle systems will upshift at
7,000 rpm. If the rpm starts to fall too low when slowing down, the vehicle systems will downshift
to the next lower gear. As the vehicle comes to rest, the clutch will open preventing the vehicle
from stalling.
SSM Sport
In SSM the Sport button can be selected or deselected, either when the vehicle is stationary or on
the move. The Sport mode enables the vehicle to make quicker gearshifts but the relevant throttle
control will still need to be achieved. Sport mode only alters gearshift speed; it does not alter the
suspension or traction control settings.
In SSM Sport, the vehicle systems will not upshift at 7,000 rpm, instead the engine will go up to,
and hold, on the rev limiter at 7,200 rpm. However, the vehicles systems will downshift if the revs
are too low – exactly the same as SSM. In addition, in both SSM and SSM Sport, the vehicle
systems will only let you downshift if you are within a safe target rpm.
The video and your posts appear to describe characteristics of a 1st gen Vanquish. Fair enough, but based on my seat of the pants impression, I do not believe that Sport mode alters only shift speeds on a V12VS with SSIII, I think it also alters throttle sensitivity. For example, if I am accelerating at a steady rate in 'normal' mode, and press the 'Sport' button in my car, the rate of acceleration increases slightly but noticeably with no change in foot pressure on the accelerator.
quench said:
Thanks, lots of interesting info but doesn't really address my question, which was basically: is there any reduction in clutch wear by putting the car in neutral at a prolonged stop, as you would in a clutch pedal manual? I'm assuming the answer would apply to later versions of SS including SSIII but I suppose that is a big assumption.
For SSI, SSII & SSIII I'd say "No" from all I've read. I'm not going to comment on Vanquish ASM as I have no knowledgequench said:
The video and your posts appear to describe characteristics of a 1st gen Vanquish. Fair enough, but based on my seat of the pants impression, I do not believe that Sport mode alters only shift speeds on a V12VS with SSIII, I think it also alters throttle sensitivity. For example, if I am accelerating at a steady rate in 'normal' mode, and press the 'Sport' button in my car, the rate of acceleration increases slightly but noticeably with no change in foot pressure on the accelerator.
For SSII and SSIII the "Sport" button does re-map the throttle as well as change the shift speed. It also changes the point in the rev range at which the exhaust valves open. I think it does the same on SSI, and I believe it also changes whether the SSI does an automatic "safety" shift at max RPM^^ Thanks both for confirming. When I first got the car I used to put it in neutral at every traffic light, as I just assumed this was good practice, to reduce wear. Since learning on this forum that neutral does not completely disengage the clutch, I have left it in gear. This is the safest option and it is good to know that there is no excess wear being caused as a result.
quench said:
^^ Thanks both for confirming. When I first got the car I used to put it in neutral at every traffic light, as I just assumed this was good practice, to reduce wear. Since learning on this forum that neutral does not completely disengage the clutch, I have left it in gear. This is the safest option and it is good to know that there is no excess wear being caused as a result.
And, of course, if you're sitting idling for a long time and a gap or opportunity suddenly presents itself, you're not accidentally left with an engine on the rev limiter and no drive because in the excitement you forgot to put your foot on the brake and pull a paddle. Win Win 
LTP said:
And, of course, if you're sitting idling for a long time and a gap or opportunity suddenly presents itself, you're not accidentally left with an engine on the rev limiter and no drive because in the excitement you forgot to put your foot on the brake and pull a paddle. Win Win
Been there, done that... 
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