For anyone thinking of owning a classic
Discussion
Dreaming of a classic Aston?? I thought this might make an interesting thread. Another lengthy blurb from Calinours for a Winter Sunday morning 
Buying and running any classic, especially rare and pricey stuff (i.e any older Aston) is always heart over head stuff, we do the man maths to convince ourselves and our other halves it will be ’an investment’ while deep down knowing full well that’s just BS. Really, we just want the damn thing!...
What is it that plants that desire to spend vast amounts of hard earned cash on some rusty old heap of yesteryear, then continue to throw thousands at it, and then consume hundreds of hours obsessively tinkering? I succumbed a couple of years back, my wife finds it mysterious and irritating, I'm already at the point where I hide what I spend, like an alcoholic hiding the bottles
Since joining PH I have noted with interest that so many of the AM enthusiasts on here run more than one car often including the Newport Pagnell classics. I wonder what it is that turns an individual into a fan or devotee of classic or historic cars of any given marque or period? - I suspect that for most it is a simple reason. Style. We just loved the way they looked. I suspect that for most, when we eventually buy something, we have probably loved the way it looks for decades. A continuing itch that, in the end, just has to be scratched…
If we go ahead, we of course discover that, compared to anything vaguely modern it will be comparatively terrible to drive, the older the worse. We knew all this, we always knew. We don't care. Classic stuff has that intangible 'character' making us love it all the more. For many, having scratched the itch, it turns into some sort of obsession. Someone I knew with a DB2/4, DB4, DB5, DB6 and a very lovely V8 described it as a 'sickness'.
I've always loved Aston Martins. I first saw an Aston in the flesh in 1985. I remember it clearly. I was 15 and it was a late 70's V8, parked in a car park. This was something different, so much more striking than any other car. To a scrawny teen on his BMX it seemed enormous and menacing. I remember staring wide eyed, thinking that this was a proper 'mans' car, it had such presence.
I finally bought that late 70's V8 two and a half years ago, helping out the gent with the 'sickness'. I've already spent a fortune and will probably spend much more. Though in its day it was considered muscular & brutal, I don't think the old V8/Vantages were ever described as beautiful, but today I find them beautiful and compelling in a way it seems no car will ever be again. I love just sitting in it, smelling over 40 years of old cigars and oil and ageing Connolly leather. It feels like a time machine, taking me back to an innocent youth spent often in a garage with a long departed dad, tinkering with and riding in cars of the same era with similar feel and smells. In reality, my old V8 is relatively slow and ponderous, the heater only demists the middle of the screen, lights don't light etc etc, but I don't care. I love both driving it, and trying to get it as good as it can be, learning how to strike the right balance between maintaining originality and improving/modernising (or 'restomodding' - what a cool term) - I know it's virtually impossible to impress AMOC so I'm not bothering to try
I personally think this is great news for the classic ‘Gaydon VH’ cars - for sure they have had the same effect on boys and men, as time slips by they are guaranteed to be remembered in the same way I remembered that old V8 - and its hard to see how they could ever disappoint anyone in 20 or 30 years, when nobody cares about how 'fast' or otherwise they might have been in period. They, or the older versions of 'we', will care only about style, and how they made us feel when we first saw one. That's the other thing about running a classic - you don't ever want to drive it like a lunatic - it's pointless, a bit dangerous and you don't want to risk blowing the engine (or anything else). While not so good for the wallet and maybe the marriage, classics are fantastic for pure happiness and keeping ones license.
I wonder if that's how it is for others. I assume for most on these forums, a love of cars starts when a hugely impressionable kid sees or feels something that remains until chance, circumstance and nostalgia combine to dictate direction
obligatory photo
Buying and running any classic, especially rare and pricey stuff (i.e any older Aston) is always heart over head stuff, we do the man maths to convince ourselves and our other halves it will be ’an investment’ while deep down knowing full well that’s just BS. Really, we just want the damn thing!...
What is it that plants that desire to spend vast amounts of hard earned cash on some rusty old heap of yesteryear, then continue to throw thousands at it, and then consume hundreds of hours obsessively tinkering? I succumbed a couple of years back, my wife finds it mysterious and irritating, I'm already at the point where I hide what I spend, like an alcoholic hiding the bottles
Since joining PH I have noted with interest that so many of the AM enthusiasts on here run more than one car often including the Newport Pagnell classics. I wonder what it is that turns an individual into a fan or devotee of classic or historic cars of any given marque or period? - I suspect that for most it is a simple reason. Style. We just loved the way they looked. I suspect that for most, when we eventually buy something, we have probably loved the way it looks for decades. A continuing itch that, in the end, just has to be scratched…
If we go ahead, we of course discover that, compared to anything vaguely modern it will be comparatively terrible to drive, the older the worse. We knew all this, we always knew. We don't care. Classic stuff has that intangible 'character' making us love it all the more. For many, having scratched the itch, it turns into some sort of obsession. Someone I knew with a DB2/4, DB4, DB5, DB6 and a very lovely V8 described it as a 'sickness'.
I've always loved Aston Martins. I first saw an Aston in the flesh in 1985. I remember it clearly. I was 15 and it was a late 70's V8, parked in a car park. This was something different, so much more striking than any other car. To a scrawny teen on his BMX it seemed enormous and menacing. I remember staring wide eyed, thinking that this was a proper 'mans' car, it had such presence.
I finally bought that late 70's V8 two and a half years ago, helping out the gent with the 'sickness'
. I've already spent a fortune and will probably spend much more. Though in its day it was considered muscular & brutal, I don't think the old V8/Vantages were ever described as beautiful, but today I find them beautiful and compelling in a way it seems no car will ever be again. I love just sitting in it, smelling over 40 years of old cigars and oil and ageing Connolly leather. It feels like a time machine, taking me back to an innocent youth spent often in a garage with a long departed dad, tinkering with and riding in cars of the same era with similar feel and smells. In reality, my old V8 is relatively slow and ponderous, the heater only demists the middle of the screen, lights don't light etc etc, but I don't care. I love both driving it, and trying to get it as good as it can be, learning how to strike the right balance between maintaining originality and improving/modernising (or 'restomodding' - what a cool term) - I know it's virtually impossible to impress AMOC so I'm not bothering to try I personally think this is great news for the classic ‘Gaydon VH’ cars - for sure they have had the same effect on boys and men, as time slips by they are guaranteed to be remembered in the same way I remembered that old V8 - and its hard to see how they could ever disappoint anyone in 20 or 30 years, when nobody cares about how 'fast' or otherwise they might have been in period. They, or the older versions of 'we', will care only about style, and how they made us feel when we first saw one. That's the other thing about running a classic - you don't ever want to drive it like a lunatic - it's pointless, a bit dangerous and you don't want to risk blowing the engine (or anything else). While not so good for the wallet and maybe the marriage
, classics are fantastic for pure happiness and keeping ones license.I wonder if that's how it is for others. I assume for most on these forums, a love of cars starts when a hugely impressionable kid sees or feels something that remains until chance, circumstance and nostalgia combine to dictate direction
obligatory photo
Edited by Calinours on Sunday 18th December 13:48
A lovely write up, as a new person in the Aston world, I knew of Aston Martin, seen all the Bond films of the cars, but never really gave it much thought, as to actually owning one, well that was a different planet altogether, but then saw the Top Gear video on You Tube of the V12 Vantage, and the comment 'Its wonderful, wonderful, wonderful' and that was it for me I was hooked.
Although I set my sight a little lower on a V8, the Vantage stuck there, until I got mine in May.
It is a strange thing as, what ever it needs, wants I will sell the wife before the car!!!
Although I set my sight a little lower on a V8, the Vantage stuck there, until I got mine in May.
It is a strange thing as, what ever it needs, wants I will sell the wife before the car!!!
Edited by kevin_cambs_uk on Sunday 18th December 10:30
Good post. I was reflecting on the 'Gaydon Era' only yesterday, and again a parallel with TVR came to mind. The Gaydon cars were to Aston Martin what the Griffith and Chimaera were to TVR, where the act came together for long enough to produce a generation of desirable cars that made headlines, were made in decent quantity,and would one day become affordable if you wanted one badly enough. Then management changed, they tried to get too clever, lived on the brand, models changed with alarming rapidity and got too expensive for much of its fanbase.
Apart from the James Bond connection, the first Aston I really took notice of was the DB7 because, starting at about £70K, it seemed like the kind of thing that might be affordable one day. However it would have replaced my Griffith, and it wouldn't have fitted that bill. In the end, by the time I was ready to take the plunge, and running only one car, the DB9 was extant and that seemed better in every respect. It's the only car that the neighbours brought their children round to see and sit in. I was ready for it to be the most expensive car to run, but not for it also to be the most unreliable and difficult to fix. The flipside of 'thoroughbred' is 'prima donna', and it's been off the road for almost 1/4 of the time I've had it - simply not good enough for an only car. The nearest so-called Aston specialist has proved themselves incompetent in ability and breathtakingly arrogant in customer service. Local garages of course can't even check the gearbox oil. Will I have another Aston? How lucky do I feel? Sometimes my former enthusiasm returns, sometimes I think they're an expensive liability. You reach what should have been a pinnacle to find it was a mirage. The jury's out. But I can say I had one.
Apart from the James Bond connection, the first Aston I really took notice of was the DB7 because, starting at about £70K, it seemed like the kind of thing that might be affordable one day. However it would have replaced my Griffith, and it wouldn't have fitted that bill. In the end, by the time I was ready to take the plunge, and running only one car, the DB9 was extant and that seemed better in every respect. It's the only car that the neighbours brought their children round to see and sit in. I was ready for it to be the most expensive car to run, but not for it also to be the most unreliable and difficult to fix. The flipside of 'thoroughbred' is 'prima donna', and it's been off the road for almost 1/4 of the time I've had it - simply not good enough for an only car. The nearest so-called Aston specialist has proved themselves incompetent in ability and breathtakingly arrogant in customer service. Local garages of course can't even check the gearbox oil. Will I have another Aston? How lucky do I feel? Sometimes my former enthusiasm returns, sometimes I think they're an expensive liability. You reach what should have been a pinnacle to find it was a mirage. The jury's out. But I can say I had one.
Edited by Simpo Two on Sunday 18th December 10:35
Thank you for posting.
You touch on the driving characteristics of a 1970s V8, and I would be interested to learn more about the actual driving feel.
A VH Vantage, as you know, gives a wonderfully balanced feel which is felt when the steering wheel is turned (front mid-mounted engine and rear transaxle).
I presume the cornering feel in your V8 must be quite a different experience. Rikki Cann races a very modified 1970s V8 and whilst he can gain places along straights, he visibly has to be patient through corners compared to some other competitors.
One of my long owned cars is a Hillman Imp. It is actually the 'luxury' Singer badged version.
It used to feel fine to drive, but now in modern times does not feel at all safe. No head restraints, very weak drum brakes, fuel tank close to the front bumper. The fuel filler is literally mounted under the bonnet on the front panel!
A fun small car with a responsive Coventry Climax rear engine, as long as there is never a collision.
Simpo Two said:
Good post. I was reflecting on the 'Gaydon Era' only yesterday, and again a parallel with TVR came to mind. The Gaydon cars were to Aston Martin what the Griffith and Chimaera were to TVR, where the act came together for long enough to produce a generation of desirable cars that made headlines, were made in decent quantity,and would one day become affordable if you wanted one badly enough. Then management changed, they tried to get too clever, lived on the brand, models changed with alarming rapidity and got too expensive for much of its fanbase. ....
I am slightly puzzed by your reference to 'Gaydon Era', John.
Did you mean Newport Pagnell era perhaps? Big changes for the cars since then.
I see the present Gaydon range, as just an extension of the VH cars. For example, DB9 and DB11, very similar silhouettes, construction and mechanicals.
Always sorry to read about the bad luck you are experiencing with your car. So disheartening.
Obviously quite a distance for you, but it might be worth having your next service at Bamford Rose. They have looked after my Vantage for many years and their knowledge and attention to detail does seem to stand out. Often a game to make phone contact and some don't like their videos, but possibly they might spot things on your car, prior to troubles arising.
Dewi 2 said:
Thank you for posting.
You touch on the driving characteristics of a 1970s V8, and I would be interested to learn more about the actual driving feel.
A VH Vantage, as you know, gives a wonderfully balanced feel which is felt when the steering wheel is turned (front mid-mounted engine and rear transaxle).
I presume the cornering feel in your V8 must be quite a different experience. Rikki Cann races a very modified 1970s V8 and whilst he can gain places along straights, he visibly has to be patient through corners compared to some other competitors.
One of my long owned cars is a Hillman Imp. It is actually the 'luxury' Singer badged version.
It used to feel fine to drive, but now in modern times does not feel at all safe. No head restraints, very weak drum brakes, fuel tank close to the front bumper. The fuel filler is literally mounted under the bonnet on the front panel!
A fun small car with a responsive Coventry Climax rear engine, as long as there is never a collision.
Attitudes to safety and risk have changed beyond recognition. I remember 5 of us as teens in a mates mini 1000 with no brakes and bald tyres trying to get it to 100 downhill on motorway. We were oblivious.
In the original post I neglected to mention that - it is inevitable that you will feel a bit vulnerable in anything old when amongst modern traffic. With far more traffic on the road and higher speeds all made possible by much better acceleration, tyres, suspension, brakes and much better insulation from the road. Every generation will notice the difference - but if one drives a car from 2 or 3 generations before, you are aware that you are the only one with no safety cage, no airbags, no ABS or stability control (the things that make some drivers wayyy too confident). You know that you will take longer to stop than anyone else and are less likely to be seen at night. Worst of all, you witness anew some of the more dangerous driving and know that you will almost certainly come off worst in a collision if you are unlucky enough to encounter a reckless individual.
The solution ? - enjoy where and when there is far less traffic, as classic enthusiasts have naturally always done.
And to answer the question about the feel of the old V8 in comparison to my V8VS, or indeed anything modern, including stuff like Range Rovers. There is just no comparison. If we insist, I’d say my 1979 V8 handles more like my 20yr old motorhome than my 2011 Vantage!
Edited by Calinours on Sunday 18th December 12:16
A lovely post, Calinours. Thank you.
I've probed my own love affair with Aston Martin and concluded that it's the almost universal search for an anchor that brought me to where I am today. Many of us spend our lives looking for sports teams, political parties, music, and other artifices that stake out our positions, hold us in place against a constant barrage of storms, and help us understand who we are or who we would like to be.
And we're willing to bear the costs...sometimes up to a point; sometimes past the point where those costs conflict with our other values.
At a much earlier time in my life, I had a Lotus Europa, and it most definitely was more than a tool for getting from A to B. And, to be honest, while there was true joy in the feeling that my brain stem was directly connected to the chassis, there was also satisfaction in the way it reinforced my self-image as someone who was just a little different...perhaps just a little unknowable.
At another time - after a period in a few African countries - I owned a Toyota Land Cruiser, even though I took it off the beaten path only a few times. Still, I knew that I could, and that I, its driver, was, by extension, capable and trustworthy.
Now, my early DB9 causes me to think of my father, who worked as a 16-year old mechanic before joining the RNVR during WWII, who became an officer, who went to the London Polytechnic after the war, and then became an engineer who designed and shaped engines and vehicles for Napier and eventually Mack Trucks. He and I changed the clutch and just about everything else in my Triumph GT6+, re-engineered the gearbox linkage in my Lotus, and understood that while engineers usually had a number of very good ideas at the beginning of a vehicle's life, they were never fully-realized and modifications, corrections, and evolution should be expected and welcomed.
My DB9 is something my father would have been proud of. It is undeniably and timelessly beautiful, and it has, at its core, some truly great ideas. The fact that more than a few of them were probably cooked-up by a handful of tired and tipsy people like me late at night in a pub or a silly building in an English village rather than a gleaming laboratory actually adds to my Aston's appeal. It helps me know, deep in my bones, that human beings, not just computers and corporations, are capable of creating things that are glorious, and that sometimes it's enough that they give us a good start, then leave it up to us to continue the "project."
I often think of selling my DB9. I'm now 70, and I don't always welcome the process of changing the oil, deciphering the mysteries of the Spanish Oak engine management system, or simply trying to hold back the effects of time on its wood, leather, and rubber. I think of how selling it would help me buy a new Genesis SUV, which would be comfortable, safe, and a lovely way to pass the time during the thousand-mile drives that are not uncommon in my adopted home in the U.S. But then I open the door to my garage, gaze at the Titanium Silver soul waiting there for me, and know that cutting loose my anchor is not for someone at my stage of life. And I know that she will still be in my garage when I die.
I've probed my own love affair with Aston Martin and concluded that it's the almost universal search for an anchor that brought me to where I am today. Many of us spend our lives looking for sports teams, political parties, music, and other artifices that stake out our positions, hold us in place against a constant barrage of storms, and help us understand who we are or who we would like to be.
And we're willing to bear the costs...sometimes up to a point; sometimes past the point where those costs conflict with our other values.
At a much earlier time in my life, I had a Lotus Europa, and it most definitely was more than a tool for getting from A to B. And, to be honest, while there was true joy in the feeling that my brain stem was directly connected to the chassis, there was also satisfaction in the way it reinforced my self-image as someone who was just a little different...perhaps just a little unknowable.
At another time - after a period in a few African countries - I owned a Toyota Land Cruiser, even though I took it off the beaten path only a few times. Still, I knew that I could, and that I, its driver, was, by extension, capable and trustworthy.
Now, my early DB9 causes me to think of my father, who worked as a 16-year old mechanic before joining the RNVR during WWII, who became an officer, who went to the London Polytechnic after the war, and then became an engineer who designed and shaped engines and vehicles for Napier and eventually Mack Trucks. He and I changed the clutch and just about everything else in my Triumph GT6+, re-engineered the gearbox linkage in my Lotus, and understood that while engineers usually had a number of very good ideas at the beginning of a vehicle's life, they were never fully-realized and modifications, corrections, and evolution should be expected and welcomed.
My DB9 is something my father would have been proud of. It is undeniably and timelessly beautiful, and it has, at its core, some truly great ideas. The fact that more than a few of them were probably cooked-up by a handful of tired and tipsy people like me late at night in a pub or a silly building in an English village rather than a gleaming laboratory actually adds to my Aston's appeal. It helps me know, deep in my bones, that human beings, not just computers and corporations, are capable of creating things that are glorious, and that sometimes it's enough that they give us a good start, then leave it up to us to continue the "project."
I often think of selling my DB9. I'm now 70, and I don't always welcome the process of changing the oil, deciphering the mysteries of the Spanish Oak engine management system, or simply trying to hold back the effects of time on its wood, leather, and rubber. I think of how selling it would help me buy a new Genesis SUV, which would be comfortable, safe, and a lovely way to pass the time during the thousand-mile drives that are not uncommon in my adopted home in the U.S. But then I open the door to my garage, gaze at the Titanium Silver soul waiting there for me, and know that cutting loose my anchor is not for someone at my stage of life. And I know that she will still be in my garage when I die.
I get it.
I love Aston Martins but my affair starts with the DBS V8.
This is the oldest AM I lust after.
Having been very lucky to have driven a DBS V8, AMV8, Virage, DB7 & DB9 my thoughts are:
The V8 cars have a feel about them that is unique.
As much as I adore the styling of the DBS I really like the Virage to drive, maybe it’s my age & my car references being rooted in 1980’s & 1990’s cars, but fortunately for me the Virage would be the one I would have of the Tadek Marek engined cars.
The DB7 is pretty, but doesn’t feel like an Aston to me, more like a Jaguar which is unsurprising, I’d prefer a well sorted XJR-S to a DB7, not least because as a 6’2” tall chap the packaging works in the XJ-S better.
The DB9 is lovely, and is probably what I will end up with.
Lets see how Virage & DB9 prices pan out over the next couple of years.
I love Aston Martins but my affair starts with the DBS V8.
This is the oldest AM I lust after.
Having been very lucky to have driven a DBS V8, AMV8, Virage, DB7 & DB9 my thoughts are:
The V8 cars have a feel about them that is unique.
As much as I adore the styling of the DBS I really like the Virage to drive, maybe it’s my age & my car references being rooted in 1980’s & 1990’s cars, but fortunately for me the Virage would be the one I would have of the Tadek Marek engined cars.
The DB7 is pretty, but doesn’t feel like an Aston to me, more like a Jaguar which is unsurprising, I’d prefer a well sorted XJR-S to a DB7, not least because as a 6’2” tall chap the packaging works in the XJ-S better.
The DB9 is lovely, and is probably what I will end up with.
Lets see how Virage & DB9 prices pan out over the next couple of years.
RichB said:
Where are you Calinours?
Currently? - in France right now enjoying the look on my French wife’s face as her national team loses the World Cup Final When I had an address in UK it was Kent. Maybe you recognise Vantage Engineering in West Sussex?
Edited by Calinours on Sunday 18th December 18:36
Stick Legs said:
I get it.
I love Aston Martins but my affair starts with the DBS V8.
This is the oldest AM I lust after.
The DB9 is lovely, and is probably what I will end up with.
Lets see how Virage & DB9 prices pan out over the next couple of years.
I’d venture that the time to buy a DB9 is now. Unbelievable amount of car for the money. Values have been rock bottom for years. Only one way to go from here. I love Aston Martins but my affair starts with the DBS V8.
This is the oldest AM I lust after.
The DB9 is lovely, and is probably what I will end up with.
Lets see how Virage & DB9 prices pan out over the next couple of years.
As ever, buy the best you can, not the cheapest. I learned the hard way about the consequences of buying an abused Aston.
My classic ownership has so far been limited to an MGB I had restored and heavily modified (220 bhp V8 conversion with uprated everything) that took us to the Dolomites and Tuscany on our honeymoon. Great, individual car but there was always a niggle or something that needed attention. I suppose it is always this way with Classics and, if you have the time, can be part of the fun.
Not sure my pockets are deep enough for a classic Aston but I don't completely rule out owning some other classic sometime in the future when I have a bit more time and space in my life.
Not sure my pockets are deep enough for a classic Aston but I don't completely rule out owning some other classic sometime in the future when I have a bit more time and space in my life.
Calinours said:
I’d venture that the time to buy a DB9 is now. Unbelievable amount of car for the money. Values have been rock bottom for years. Only one way to go from here.
As ever, buy the best you can, not the cheapest. I learned the hard way about the consequences of buying an abused Aston.
I think you are absolutely right.As ever, buy the best you can, not the cheapest. I learned the hard way about the consequences of buying an abused Aston.
I’m nearly there, but have a few things I want to get sorted first.
Not least of which is build a garage for it to live in!
I've owned V8 Vantages for over 30 years, properly setup and tuned they are fantastic beasts to drive. I've shipped mine all over the world and driven thousands of miles in many countries with them and they have never let me down. I raced them, rallied them, restored them and written books on them...nothing else compares. They beg to be driven hard and reward you when you do, ask @NDA about their ability to be driven sideways around roundabouts and thrashed along the straights! Aston saved the best for the 1977-1990 V8 Vantage, they are the pinnacle of the range and drive totally differently to the lesser V8s. They sprinkled the magic dust on them when built, the "V" in the engine and chassis number really is worth the extra cost.
Roo
Roo
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