Vantage V12 or Vantage V12S
Discussion
Appreciate this may be a little in advance but nothing wrong in doing some research.
Some time later into 2022 (awaiting probate) will be in a position to spend up to £100k on a car. I've looked at allsorts yet keep coming back to a V12 Vantage.
So, a few thoughts..
The car will never see a track so is the adjustable suspension on the S worth it for just normal roads?
Is the power difference between the two cars really going to be noticeable in the real World?
Is it worth restricting a purchase to main dealers or are there highly recommended independants to keep in mind?
Is the S worth the extra expense?
Tried doing a bit of research on the internet but thought the best place to get some advice would be from owners! I must have read every road test and watched every video there is.
Aware how some criticise the SS111 on the S however, I have a feeling I'd be fine with it as a previous car was a M3CSL with the universally derided SMG2, once it's foibles were understood it proved to be excellent.
TIA
Some time later into 2022 (awaiting probate) will be in a position to spend up to £100k on a car. I've looked at allsorts yet keep coming back to a V12 Vantage.
So, a few thoughts..
The car will never see a track so is the adjustable suspension on the S worth it for just normal roads?
Is the power difference between the two cars really going to be noticeable in the real World?
Is it worth restricting a purchase to main dealers or are there highly recommended independants to keep in mind?
Is the S worth the extra expense?
Tried doing a bit of research on the internet but thought the best place to get some advice would be from owners! I must have read every road test and watched every video there is.
Aware how some criticise the SS111 on the S however, I have a feeling I'd be fine with it as a previous car was a M3CSL with the universally derided SMG2, once it's foibles were understood it proved to be excellent.
TIA
Edited by moktabe on Tuesday 28th December 13:06
If you don't drive them back to back it's not THAT different. I did, and bought the S, and then had AMR kit added.
IMO the S is both more aggressive (engine) and more comfortable (ride). The chassis setup of the non-S to me felt more track biased than the S in comfort by default (harsher, albeit fun), but the S when put in sport or track takes that further. Thus the S is the better road car, imo. The manual gearstick on the non-S is cooler.
I'd say the choice should come down to preference once driven and likely usage, and likely manual vs sportshift which i'm sure people will argue for days. For what it's worth i dont think sportshift should be discounted - internet warriors seem to think it's worse than it is, arguably it has a lovely downshift soundtrack coming off a motorway to a junction. Although again - i bought the manual. I'd happily have either - both manual, personally.
also be sure to test both styles of seat, this is a must.
In answer to your other question - i went main dealer because of being nervous about the risks. I would recommend HWM, both sales and aftersales. I'd also happily trust from McGurk after having interactions with them in person since my purchase, though my car always goes back to HWM.
IMO the S is both more aggressive (engine) and more comfortable (ride). The chassis setup of the non-S to me felt more track biased than the S in comfort by default (harsher, albeit fun), but the S when put in sport or track takes that further. Thus the S is the better road car, imo. The manual gearstick on the non-S is cooler.
I'd say the choice should come down to preference once driven and likely usage, and likely manual vs sportshift which i'm sure people will argue for days. For what it's worth i dont think sportshift should be discounted - internet warriors seem to think it's worse than it is, arguably it has a lovely downshift soundtrack coming off a motorway to a junction. Although again - i bought the manual. I'd happily have either - both manual, personally.
also be sure to test both styles of seat, this is a must.
In answer to your other question - i went main dealer because of being nervous about the risks. I would recommend HWM, both sales and aftersales. I'd also happily trust from McGurk after having interactions with them in person since my purchase, though my car always goes back to HWM.
Edited by jimmybell on Tuesday 28th December 13:17
I was in a similar position to yourself a while back and also did extensive research pretty much like yourself, I opted for V12VS SS111 with the standard seats, as always all comes down to personal preference and their are plenty on here who prefer the earlier cars but it wasn’t for me and in todays traffic a manual car is a no no, whether it’s earlier 6 or later 7 speed, though do concede they are enormous fun.
I went the main dealer route AM Newcastle and bought a late 17 V12VS in Ceramic grey with yellow accents absolutely loved it circumstances said she went after a year but I’m actively looking again now for a replacement, I think whatever you choose you’ll be happy they really are very special.
Pick up day and a few pics to wet your appetite…….
I went the main dealer route AM Newcastle and bought a late 17 V12VS in Ceramic grey with yellow accents absolutely loved it circumstances said she went after a year but I’m actively looking again now for a replacement, I think whatever you choose you’ll be happy they really are very special.
Pick up day and a few pics to wet your appetite…….
had a 2010 V12V manual and was good, did th BR tubular manifolds and almost straight through exhaust and was really nice, now have a 2015 V12S and its a different animal, the SSIII is really good, you can not change gear in a manual like it. the three settings on the suspension are ok, leave mine in the mid range. Try them both but reckon you will end up with the S
I've owned 2x V12 Vantages, total of 6 years and one V12VS for the last 5 years.
The first thing to note is that the gearboxes are very difference in all 3. The V12V has the 6speed manual from the V8, but with the upgraded clutch feels very light and much improved, and it also has the most epic gearknob ever fitted to any car.
After that for several years the only option on the V12VS was the SSIII gearbox. This is a robotic manual, NOT an automatic. Some people love it, others not so much. It is very rewarding if you take you time to get used to it, but an auto it certainly is not.
Then finally in the later years came the 7spd dogleg manual. This is the same gearbox as SSIII but with the robotic bits removed. The dogleg layout and narrow planes make it challenging to get used to, but once you do it is probably one of the most rewarding gearboxes to drive in any car I have ever owned. Ignore most of the journo drivel, you need to spend several days with the car for you brain to adapt, but once that happens...
I love mine to pieces and wouldn't change it for the world - makes the car a very very special thing indeed.
Of course with the doglegs being rare and only occuring in the last 2yrs of production they are typically priced a fair bit above other cars. Having just noticed you mention a £100k budget, then the 7spd dogleg may be out of the running, so the choice really ought to hinge on if you want a manual or SS.
If you are genuinely open to either gearbox, then you will very likely find the S really has tons of improvements all over that just turn the whole car up to 11, from a great car to an epic car. More noise from the sports exhaust, more power, adjustable suspension, newer waterfall. No one thing is transformative, but the end result really is more than the sum of the parts. Oh and if you can stretch to a 2017 car, then it comes with AMi III which is very probably the best infotainment / Nav system AM have fitted period.
Oh and of course there's the question of Roadster or Coupe. In the V12VS the Roadster is only mildly more expensive as neither were limited in production, in the V12V however there were only 100 Roadsters so they command a decent chunk more than their coupe counterparts.
All that said you really can't go wrong with either a V12V or V12VS, coupe or roadster. Set your exact budget, decide gearbox and roof, then look for the right car in the right spec.
Oh two final things - get Premium Audio or B&O both are equally brilliant, but avoid std audio it really sucks, and get the lightweight bucket seats as they really do come into their own in the V12V(S) and transform the way the car feels. The buckets are so much more comfortable on long journeys too, despite on paper having less adjustment.
Good luck
The first thing to note is that the gearboxes are very difference in all 3. The V12V has the 6speed manual from the V8, but with the upgraded clutch feels very light and much improved, and it also has the most epic gearknob ever fitted to any car.
After that for several years the only option on the V12VS was the SSIII gearbox. This is a robotic manual, NOT an automatic. Some people love it, others not so much. It is very rewarding if you take you time to get used to it, but an auto it certainly is not.
Then finally in the later years came the 7spd dogleg manual. This is the same gearbox as SSIII but with the robotic bits removed. The dogleg layout and narrow planes make it challenging to get used to, but once you do it is probably one of the most rewarding gearboxes to drive in any car I have ever owned. Ignore most of the journo drivel, you need to spend several days with the car for you brain to adapt, but once that happens...
I love mine to pieces and wouldn't change it for the world - makes the car a very very special thing indeed. Of course with the doglegs being rare and only occuring in the last 2yrs of production they are typically priced a fair bit above other cars. Having just noticed you mention a £100k budget, then the 7spd dogleg may be out of the running, so the choice really ought to hinge on if you want a manual or SS.
If you are genuinely open to either gearbox, then you will very likely find the S really has tons of improvements all over that just turn the whole car up to 11, from a great car to an epic car. More noise from the sports exhaust, more power, adjustable suspension, newer waterfall. No one thing is transformative, but the end result really is more than the sum of the parts. Oh and if you can stretch to a 2017 car, then it comes with AMi III which is very probably the best infotainment / Nav system AM have fitted period.
Oh and of course there's the question of Roadster or Coupe. In the V12VS the Roadster is only mildly more expensive as neither were limited in production, in the V12V however there were only 100 Roadsters so they command a decent chunk more than their coupe counterparts.
All that said you really can't go wrong with either a V12V or V12VS, coupe or roadster. Set your exact budget, decide gearbox and roof, then look for the right car in the right spec.
Oh two final things - get Premium Audio or B&O both are equally brilliant, but avoid std audio it really sucks, and get the lightweight bucket seats as they really do come into their own in the V12V(S) and transform the way the car feels. The buckets are so much more comfortable on long journeys too, despite on paper having less adjustment.
Good luck
Edited by AdamV12V on Tuesday 28th December 17:18
Thanks for the replies guys, informative.
I feel, that after liking the SMG2,in the CSL I'd have no issues with the SS111 as it'd never be used in the 'auto' setting.
it's good to get an owners perspective, especially where someone has owned both.
Regarding usage of the car. I have a Smart for town use so that gets used for just knocking around. Also have a quite highly modified Ph1 Clio V6 that will likely end up going into storage. Retired here so have all the time in the World so the Vantage would be used for regular UK road trips and would definitely not live its life under cover in my garage. Should Europe start opening up properly then Euro trips will also be in the plan.
In theory it's planned to be kept long term and not replaced with something else.
I'd prefer the S however, as said in my OP no harm ever gets done by asking questions!
It would definitely be a coupe.
I feel, that after liking the SMG2,in the CSL I'd have no issues with the SS111 as it'd never be used in the 'auto' setting.
it's good to get an owners perspective, especially where someone has owned both.
Regarding usage of the car. I have a Smart for town use so that gets used for just knocking around. Also have a quite highly modified Ph1 Clio V6 that will likely end up going into storage. Retired here so have all the time in the World so the Vantage would be used for regular UK road trips and would definitely not live its life under cover in my garage. Should Europe start opening up properly then Euro trips will also be in the plan.
In theory it's planned to be kept long term and not replaced with something else.
I'd prefer the S however, as said in my OP no harm ever gets done by asking questions!
It would definitely be a coupe.
Edited by moktabe on Tuesday 28th December 17:48
moktabe said:
I feel, that after liking the SMG2,in the CSL I'd have no issues with the SS111 as it'd never be used in the 'auto' setting.
Yes I had 2 E46 M3's with SMG2. It is for sure the closest thing to SSIII. If you loved SMG then I think SS is probably something you will also love, in which case the S is the way to go for you. £100k should get you a very nice example of a V12VS SS coupe for sure.AdamV12V said:
Yes I had 2 E46 M3's with SMG2. It is for sure the closest thing to SSIII. If you loved SMG then I think SS is probably something you will also love, in which case the S is the way to go for you. £100k should get you a very nice example of a V12VS SS coupe for sure.
That's my way of thinking Until the time gets nearer I'm not going bother dealers for any test drives. Might start visiting just to have a look at a few though and, if I get offered a drive it won't be turned down.
AdamV12V said:
Oh two final things - get Premium Audio or B&O both are equally brilliant, but avoid std audio it really sucks, and get the lightweight bucket seats as they really do come into their own in the V12V(S) and transform the way the car feels. The buckets are so much more comfortable on long journeys too, despite on paper having less adjustment.
By all means pay extra for upgraded audio, but think about how you’re going to use the car and how important a higher spec system is to you. If you decat/run in sport then there’s a lot of background noise to overcome whichever system you have. I’ve genuinely not used it as anything other than as a car kit for the phone and wouldn’t reject a car in an otherwise good spec simply because it didn’t have upgraded stereo.(I have the B&O in my other one and, tbh, I think the operating environment is such that I wouldn’t miss it if it wasn’t there.)
I don’t think the standard seats are bad… but have not tried the lightweights.
Both great cars and I’m sure you’ll be happy with whichever you decide to own. Regarding where to buy, don’t discount reputable AM independents or specialist high performance dealers. I would always recommend getting a pre purchase inspection for complete peace of mind. Don’t assume buying from an official AM dealer that you will get the perfect service; my experience was far from this and I’ve known others with a similar experience. There are a few good FB pages which I recommend you join as well. Overall Aston owners are a friendly bunch, so ask away with questions or advice.
I have a 2014 V12VS SS III, Lightweight seats, premium audio. Owned since late 2014. Only mod is secondary decat. I’ve driven all the options mentioned here and I wouldn’t swap mine for any of them.
S has better steering/suspension/engine/brakes over the non S - as you would expect from a later car.
Lightweight seats are a massive improvement over the sports. Easily the best seats I’ve used in any car.
Drive the various options and you’ll know. None will disappoint.
S has better steering/suspension/engine/brakes over the non S - as you would expect from a later car.
Lightweight seats are a massive improvement over the sports. Easily the best seats I’ve used in any car.
Drive the various options and you’ll know. None will disappoint.
In my mind if the S had a manual 6 speed box then it's a no brainer. It hasn't so there is some thinking to do.
If manual is not so important then the S looks like better value. The premium you may well be paying for manual may well be evident forever and even increase. However the S badge could gain traction regarding value.
All iterations are great cars and AM slowly improved there cars over time.
The AM warranty on the age of car at which you are looking is good value in my mind despite them being pretty reliable cars.
I thought all V12V's had premium audio as standard with B&O optional. Both these are brilliant but quite different.
You will love any variant for sure.
If manual is not so important then the S looks like better value. The premium you may well be paying for manual may well be evident forever and even increase. However the S badge could gain traction regarding value.
All iterations are great cars and AM slowly improved there cars over time.
The AM warranty on the age of car at which you are looking is good value in my mind despite them being pretty reliable cars.
I thought all V12V's had premium audio as standard with B&O optional. Both these are brilliant but quite different.
You will love any variant for sure.
I know it’s not the core question (I’ve never driven an original 6 speed V12, so can’t compare to my AMR V12), but regarding the audio, I would now prioritise the B+O higher.
My first Vantage (2014 non-S V8) has standard audio. It was OK. Not brilliant, but not bad.
My second V8S (2016) had the Premium 700W audio. That one disappointed me the most. I expected much more but found it just a little better.
I’d already read that the B+O wasn’t much of a difference from the Premium. The AMR I found has the B+O, so when I first experienced it, I was neutral on expectations. But it’s blown me away! The clarity is brilliant and I hear things on my favourite tracks that I’d not heard before.
On each car, I connected via a USB cable.
I understand there can be subtle differences to how each car is set up that can make a big difference to audio. Perhaps I was just unlucky with the Premium one I had. Or my hearing isn’t up to scratch to truly discern.
Either way, all IMHO.
My first Vantage (2014 non-S V8) has standard audio. It was OK. Not brilliant, but not bad.
My second V8S (2016) had the Premium 700W audio. That one disappointed me the most. I expected much more but found it just a little better.
I’d already read that the B+O wasn’t much of a difference from the Premium. The AMR I found has the B+O, so when I first experienced it, I was neutral on expectations. But it’s blown me away! The clarity is brilliant and I hear things on my favourite tracks that I’d not heard before.
On each car, I connected via a USB cable.
I understand there can be subtle differences to how each car is set up that can make a big difference to audio. Perhaps I was just unlucky with the Premium one I had. Or my hearing isn’t up to scratch to truly discern.
Either way, all IMHO.
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leman600 said:
I thought all V12V's had premium audio as standard with B&O optional.
No they don't. Virtually all have either Premium or B&O but Premium wasn't standard. When I was looking at V12V there was one car I saw advertised with Standard audio. It was a rare, great colour but the audio (and seats IMHO) rather let it down. 
I've never heard the B&O system however, the difference to me in the stock 160W system to the (so called) Premium 700W system was negligible.
I do like Hi-Fi and have a home system worth a tidy amount so can hear subtle differences.
In a car environment with road, tyre and wind noise .... My feeling is the premium system isn't worth paying extra for, perhaps the B&O system is.
I do like Hi-Fi and have a home system worth a tidy amount so can hear subtle differences.
In a car environment with road, tyre and wind noise .... My feeling is the premium system isn't worth paying extra for, perhaps the B&O system is.
BiggaJ said:
I've never heard the B&O system however, the difference to me in the stock 160W system to the (so called) Premium 700W system was negligible.
I do like Hi-Fi and have a home system worth a tidy amount so can hear subtle differences.
In a car environment with road, tyre and wind noise .... My feeling is the premium system isn't worth paying extra for, perhaps the B&O system is.
My only conclusion from this is that the standard system must have improved since the 2009 one I heard which was so much worse than Premium that Premium went onto my must-have list and has stayed there since. Or perhaps you heard a broken or very badly set-up Premium system.I do like Hi-Fi and have a home system worth a tidy amount so can hear subtle differences.
In a car environment with road, tyre and wind noise .... My feeling is the premium system isn't worth paying extra for, perhaps the B&O system is.
I also have quality home HiFi and care what I'm listening to. It is also possible to listen to your car system with the engine off and not moving and, especially when the kids were young, I spent a considerable amount of time doing this, so the argument of engine/road noise only goes so far.
V8V Pete said:
My only conclusion from this is that the standard system must have improved since the 2009 one I heard which was so much worse than Premium that Premium went onto my must-have list and has stayed there since. Or perhaps you heard a broken or very badly set-up Premium system.
I also have quality home HiFi and care what I'm listening to. It is also possible to listen to your car system with the engine off and not moving and, especially when the kids were young, I spent a considerable amount of time doing this, so the argument of engine/road noise only goes so far.
Mine is a 2009 car with standard 160W and I find it perfectly acceptable. Whether driving or sitting with engine off or in traffic, though I must admit it's not often I'm in the car and the car isn't moving!I also have quality home HiFi and care what I'm listening to. It is also possible to listen to your car system with the engine off and not moving and, especially when the kids were young, I spent a considerable amount of time doing this, so the argument of engine/road noise only goes so far.
The Premium systems I've heard were both on 2007 cars and both sat stationary. Neither blew me away leaving me thinking I've been short changed with the base system.
Each to their own I guess.
Phil74891 said:
I have a 2014 V12VS SS III, Lightweight seats, premium audio. Owned since late 2014. Only mod is secondary decat. I’ve driven all the options mentioned here and I wouldn’t swap mine for any of them.
S has better steering/suspension/engine/brakes over the non S - as you would expect from a later car.
Lightweight seats are a massive improvement over the sports. Easily the best seats I’ve used in any car.
Drive the various options and you’ll know. None will disappoint.
wow, nice one S has better steering/suspension/engine/brakes over the non S - as you would expect from a later car.
Lightweight seats are a massive improvement over the sports. Easily the best seats I’ve used in any car.
Drive the various options and you’ll know. None will disappoint.
Normally the S version with manual would be lovely, but in a RHD car it seems not so handy...
in a LHD car its way better, more 'natural' although a six speed would be easier, never liked the 'sport' gearbox idea for street cars, with the first gear left under, although I've owned 5 times a e30 M3 and it was 'cool' at the time, because race style, but to be honest, give me a great normal 6-speed anytime.
In Europa mainland there are not many manual 7 speed S versions for sale, very rare on this side.
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