carbon ceramic brakes

[superlightr]

Noticed that the DBS and Virage have Ceramic brakes but the bible gives a caution as to their longevity and cost ie its not really known yet.

Is there an anticipated life span for the brakes, how are people finding them, is it possible to swab back to steel.

I know with the pork GT2 with Ceramic is was possible to switch back when there were issues with early discs must be 12 or so years ago. curious as to views on the AM brakes as will infulence if to go for a Virage/DBS or DB9

[DAVIDOXE]

Not an expert but Stratstone Cardiff tell me they have never changed a set.(read what you will into that)
Also did read on here that there is an aftermarket steel disc replacment option.
Mine is a 2009 V12V with CCMs they appear to be fine but it has only done 11k miles.

[Cockernee]

The issue is mainly down to cars that have been tracked or discs that have had aggressive wheel cleaner fluid on them. I am no expert on the latter, but a tracked car will have significant life removed from them Trust me....

If it has not been tracked, or very little track time, then I am sure you will be fine with them.

There are lots of posts on here as to the life expectancy, but I do know an independant that has changed several sets on cars that have seen a trackday or 3 . Read into that what you will, but thems the facts .

[AMDBSNick]

Cockernee said:

There are lots of posts on here as to the life expectancy, but I do know an independant that has changed several sets on cars that have seen a trackday or 3 . Read into that what you will, but thems the facts .

What he said

[CSK1]

I can't believe you need to replace CCM discs after 3 track days!
Maybe those that needed replacing was because the brake pads hadn't been changed on time (this is what happened to Simon George's DBS from Evo), if you do a cooling lap at the end of your session and make sure the pads are changed on time, a few track days should be fine.

[AMDBSNick]

CSK1 said:

I can't believe you need to replace CCM discs after 3 track days!
Maybe those that needed replacing was because the brake pads hadn't been changed on time (this is what happened to Simon George's DBS from Evo), if you do a cooling lap at the end of your session and make sure the pads are changed on time, a few track days should be fine.

Best you do believe it. My pads were always up to scratch as were everyone else's who I know have had them changed. DBS & V12V

[CSK1]

Did you have to change your CCM discs?

[AMDBSNick]

CSK1 said:

Did you have to change your CCM discs?

Yup

14000 miles
3 track days with plenty of pad and cooling down laps strictly enforced
2 spirited trips to Le Mans

Two of my mates, one DBS & one V12V also had it done. One V12V still needs doing but the owner is in denial

[SFO]

AMDBSNick said:

Yup

14000 miles
3 track days with plenty of pad and cooling down laps strictly enforced
2 spirited trips to Le Mans

Two of my mates, one DBS & one V12V also had it done. One V12V still needs doing but the owner is in denial

what was the cost? were all 4 replaced or just the fronts?

[AMDBSNick]

SFO said:

what was the cost? were all 4 replaced or just the fronts?

Hi Sean,

Just the fronts, the rears are as good as new. PM me if you want exact details of costs etc as its quite complex but circa two thirds of main dealer price.

Nick

[SFO]

AMDBSNick said:

SFO said:

what was the cost? were all 4 replaced or just the fronts?

Hi Sean,

Just the fronts, the rears are as good as new. PM me if you want exact details of costs etc as its quite complex but circa two thirds of main dealer price.

Nick

just curious as I am used to around £5k a disc re:Porsche ceramic discs .. not that I have had to replace mine

[Armen]

Price new for both front discs is ca. £5800

[AMDBSNick]

SFO said:

just curious as I am used to around £5k a disc re:Porsche ceramic discs .. not that I have had to replace mine

Mrs T putting the little ones to bed so here goes

Previously, Aston sold a disc separate from pad and fitting dealer bedded in discs / pads. Because the bedding in procedure had to be restricted to obey legal speed limits, it took a while to realise that the disc / pads were never properly bed in leading to excessive noise, poor performance and rapid wear. As a result the factory now only sells discs that come pre bed in to a pad set (bench / dyno bed in I believe). This leaves situation of a lot of dealer stock of un bedded discs inside a dealer network that cant comply with the bedding in process needed (I know the real one because I sat in my car as it was being conducted). This means there is short term possibility to purchase discs that have been traded out of dealer network in the hands of indies that know how to run the proper brake bed in procedure. Other than this, front discs and pads approx £6.1k, rear disc and pads £5.1k, plus fitting, plus vat

[SFO]

AMDBSNick said:

SFO said:

just curious as I am used to around £5k a disc re:Porsche ceramic discs .. not that I have had to replace mine

Mrs T putting the little ones to bed so here goes

Previously, Aston sold a disc separate from pad and fitting dealer bedded in discs / pads. Because the bedding in procedure had to be restricted to obey legal speed limits, it took a while to realise that the disc / pads were never properly bed in leading to excessive noise, poor performance and rapid wear. As a result the factory now only sells discs that come pre bed in to a pad set (bench / dyno bed in I believe). This leaves situation of a lot of dealer stock of un bedded discs inside a dealer network that cant comply with the bedding in process needed (I know the real one because I sat in my car as it was being conducted). This means there is short term possibility to purchase discs that have been traded out of dealer network in the hands of indies that know how to run the proper brake bed in procedure. Other than this, front discs and pads approx £6.1k, rear disc and pads £5.1k, plus fitting, plus vat

thanks, very interesting

time to stock up on spare CCMs

[L0TT0]

AMDBSNick said:

CSK1 said:

Did you have to change your CCM discs?

Yup

14000 miles
3 track days with plenty of pad and cooling down laps strictly enforced
2 spirited trips to Le Mans

Two of my mates, one DBS & one V12V also had it done. One V12V still needs doing but the owner is in denial

[Impasse]

The steelies on my sheddy V8V were reported as being just below spec at the last service having covered 41k miles. A pair will cost me £300 + pads of my choice.

No point to this post, I'm just gloating.

[tonyhall38]

Carbon ceramics......a whole can of worms there.....funny how no main dealer has changed a set as far as I know.....through wear and tear......

[V8V Pete]

Impasse said:

The steelies on my sheddy V8V were reported as being just below spec at the last service having covered 41k miles. A pair will cost me £300 + pads of my choice.

No point to this post, I'm just gloating.

No Impasse, I think there is a point to your post and that is that CCMs just aren't worth it. They are ridiculously expensive and for what performance gain? The newer 6 pot steel brakes are very strong (the 4 pot ones are fine too) and the costs are tiny in comparison.

Then there's the whole issue of damage from acidic wheel cleaner if you're buying a used car. Through ignorance, I found this a little far fetched when I first heard about it but then the thread last year began to convince me. Then last month I a saw a set (all 4 CCMs) at my local dealer that had been taken off a car and were completely fked and I'm now totally convinced that it happens. I think there are clues that acidic wheel cleaner has been used - the bolts corrode and the centre of the disc discolours a bit and goes milky - but is it too late by then and the damage is done?

So for me, if you want a car with CCMs then buy new, don't use acidic wheel cleaner, never let anyone else clean your car and don't track it unless you factor in a £7K bill every 20,000 odd miles. Personally, this wasn't really an option which is one of the reasons I ended up in an SP10 rather than a V12V. The car is superb (manual, lightweight seats), really quite similar in character to a V12V and if I ever find myself needing more power I know exactly where to go to get it

Each to his own, I'm very happy as are many with CCM equipped Astons but do go into ownership with your eyes open especially when the liabilities are that great.

[CSK1]

That is very worrying. Just bought a V12VSR and intended attending a few club meetings, not racing in any way but having some fun on track, also wanted to do the Nurburgring Hanseat driving course where they teach you the circuit portion by portion so not very intensive on mechanicals.
I'm kind of changing my mind as it could be potentially very expensive!
There's also a company refurbishing CCM's, anyone tried them?
http://www.carbonceramicbrake.com/refurbishment-se...

[V8V Pete]

Of course non of this is unique to AM. There are only a few manufacturers of CCMs out there and I imagine it's more or less the same product going on all makes of sports cars with CCMs.

In answer to Tony - If the customer has no prospect of a "warranty" claim then I guess they would take their car with worn out CCMs to the best value place to have them replaced and I can't see that being a main dealer, can you?