Carbon Ceramic brake life
Discussion
OK, so further to Bamford Mike's post yesterday re CCM brakes
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Can owners of relevant Aston Martins let us know their experience of CCM brake disc and pad wear/life before my future plan of V12V ownership comes crashing down. Also what is the best price people have achieved for replacement discs/pads. There must be someone out there that drives their car enough to have had to replace them if Mike's estimates of disc life are accurate. Before I get all the advice that running a V12 will be more expensive than my V8, I do realise that but some of the prices quoted for CCM discs are rather eye watering.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Can owners of relevant Aston Martins let us know their experience of CCM brake disc and pad wear/life before my future plan of V12V ownership comes crashing down. Also what is the best price people have achieved for replacement discs/pads. There must be someone out there that drives their car enough to have had to replace them if Mike's estimates of disc life are accurate. Before I get all the advice that running a V12 will be more expensive than my V8, I do realise that but some of the prices quoted for CCM discs are rather eye watering.
Hi Pete,
I posted the below on the BR thread.
"I bought my DBS outside of the Aston dealership network so was particularly careful about the state of the CCM's. Jaguar at the time didnt do a car with CCM's so I got the salesman to call Aston up. I did my own research as well and the phrases "should last the lifetime of the car" and "80,000+ miles" came up regularly. Slightly disconcerting that Aston think my car will only last 80K, maybe they know ill stick it in a hedge before I do! My car is on 32K and the discs look fine, Im unaware how many sets of pads its been through. The 8K Ive put on her has included a couple of trackdays. When I wash her I drench the brakes in water but Im very careful not to use any chemical wheel cleaner as I was told this is the biggest risk to the CCM rotor as it can etch the surface. I drive the car about 1 mile back to my garage, everything seems fine. Maybe its because ive driven to get the car washed so the discs are warm so any water evaporates off. CCM discs create very little dust so theyd have to be filthy to cause that sort of wear wouldnt they?!
As a solution Im pretty sure Mike told me BR can fit steel replacements that are still epic".
Ive had my car for a year and put 8K of mixed driving on her. Shes now up to 32K (I have an early 58 plate) and the discs look fine still. As Ive said above Id have to check how many pad sets shes had but Id hazard a guess and say shes still on the originals. Check the surface finish of the CCM's on any car you look at and as a last stop you could ask an Aston dealer to do the heat up and weigh of each disc to give you the exact amount of wear. As for cost of replacements, Ive seen them for £1200 ish a disc on Astonbits (2nd hand) and now and then Ive seen entire sets (x4) on ebay including the callipers for anywhere between £3K and £7K. There are definitely cheaper options than the £12K odd from Aston!
I posted the below on the BR thread.
"I bought my DBS outside of the Aston dealership network so was particularly careful about the state of the CCM's. Jaguar at the time didnt do a car with CCM's so I got the salesman to call Aston up. I did my own research as well and the phrases "should last the lifetime of the car" and "80,000+ miles" came up regularly. Slightly disconcerting that Aston think my car will only last 80K, maybe they know ill stick it in a hedge before I do! My car is on 32K and the discs look fine, Im unaware how many sets of pads its been through. The 8K Ive put on her has included a couple of trackdays. When I wash her I drench the brakes in water but Im very careful not to use any chemical wheel cleaner as I was told this is the biggest risk to the CCM rotor as it can etch the surface. I drive the car about 1 mile back to my garage, everything seems fine. Maybe its because ive driven to get the car washed so the discs are warm so any water evaporates off. CCM discs create very little dust so theyd have to be filthy to cause that sort of wear wouldnt they?!
As a solution Im pretty sure Mike told me BR can fit steel replacements that are still epic".
Ive had my car for a year and put 8K of mixed driving on her. Shes now up to 32K (I have an early 58 plate) and the discs look fine still. As Ive said above Id have to check how many pad sets shes had but Id hazard a guess and say shes still on the originals. Check the surface finish of the CCM's on any car you look at and as a last stop you could ask an Aston dealer to do the heat up and weigh of each disc to give you the exact amount of wear. As for cost of replacements, Ive seen them for £1200 ish a disc on Astonbits (2nd hand) and now and then Ive seen entire sets (x4) on ebay including the callipers for anywhere between £3K and £7K. There are definitely cheaper options than the £12K odd from Aston!
JACK6284 said:
a V12 Vantage in the showroom with 60k miles on the clock. It was still on the original discs and pads.
the only slight chance this is correct is that it was 60k motorway miles and no contamination from poor practice cleaning regime.You need to read the post on my forum @ 11:43 to fully understand the point trying to be made, and this is no slight on the dealer at all who is selling the car you state. But, even if the same dealer serviced this car annually and there is no stamp in the book for any prior pad change, how does anybody know the owner didn't trot off to a 'back street garage' and have a simple pad set change prior to chop-in?
The point of the post in my forum area is to educate the naive from an unplanned spend post purchase - simple and a good thing.
There will be a few freak examples (mainly from girlie driving beyond even being nancy) where pad life is truly freak long, but if it were my money going on that 60k car, the approved used 140 point report or Pre Purchase Inspection would need to state disc density - that's being informed / eyes open going into purchase which is a good thing.
Saying "well, dealer says its 60k same discs and pads so all is good", then out of warranty period pad wear rate is fast and brake performance is poor accompanied by the sound of gravel rash when the brake is applied because the disc surface face is compromised and disc is worn out, is a result of being naive / uninformed at purchase, which is bad thing.
Interesting.
Can CC dics be repaired?
I found this with a quick google - can't see that Lambo discs are significantly different in structure to AM versions:
http://www.torenno.com/lamborghini/lamborghini-per...
Can CC dics be repaired?
I found this with a quick google - can't see that Lambo discs are significantly different in structure to AM versions:
http://www.torenno.com/lamborghini/lamborghini-per...
Interesting reading - I had this on my V12V - one of the front disks looked exactly like the picture Mike posted, the other one was fine. When the car went in for new tyres fitting the dealer said I needed new pads and disks as one of the disks was badly worn. The car was 2009 model and done around 10,000 miles.
Dealer took it up with AM who initially refused to pay for parts but I spoke with AM directly and they agreed to replace both front disks and pads. In my view, the disk was faulty because if it was a cleaning chemical that caused the problem then I'd expect at least one of the other three disks to show the same condition given that people don't just clean one wheel! If the car had been thrashed on track then again surely both fronts would show similar wear - as only was had the problem my view was the disk was faulty. AM agreed and replaced them.
I thought it was excellent customer service from Aston Martin - had they not have done this I'd have taken the car to Bamford Rose to fix (I will add that Mike was very helpful in offering his professional opinion on this whilst looking at the photos of my disks that I sent him).
It's also worth noting that I seem to recall some forums posts in the past stating that replacement disks were around £12-£14k - they are not, from memory it's around £7k so yes they are expensive but not perhaps as bad you may expect.
Dealer took it up with AM who initially refused to pay for parts but I spoke with AM directly and they agreed to replace both front disks and pads. In my view, the disk was faulty because if it was a cleaning chemical that caused the problem then I'd expect at least one of the other three disks to show the same condition given that people don't just clean one wheel! If the car had been thrashed on track then again surely both fronts would show similar wear - as only was had the problem my view was the disk was faulty. AM agreed and replaced them.
I thought it was excellent customer service from Aston Martin - had they not have done this I'd have taken the car to Bamford Rose to fix (I will add that Mike was very helpful in offering his professional opinion on this whilst looking at the photos of my disks that I sent him).
It's also worth noting that I seem to recall some forums posts in the past stating that replacement disks were around £12-£14k - they are not, from memory it's around £7k so yes they are expensive but not perhaps as bad you may expect.
I'm not sue how this fits in with the rest of the info on the thread but I'll stick to the facts - interpret this as you will
I've done every single one of the 17,182 miles my car has now covered since it was new in Jan of last year (V12 Vantage Roadster)
It was serviced at 10,100 miles at the end of August last year 'on a mileage basis', then today on a 'time basis' (12 months since the last service)
As I found with my previous 2 V8s, I suspect my driving style may be sympathetic to tyre & brake wear - I'm not attempting to compare myself to Jenson Button as I make no efforts to preserve life of tyres/brakes - it's completely unintentional
Yes Ive done plenty of motorway miles but this is a second car and I;ve done track days at Silverstone & Imola, a couple of really intensive multi thousand mile alpine pass tours (where going downhill is very intensive on the brakes (they were smoking at one point) and plenty of trips where the car is driven really hard, such as multiple weekends in Wales for Evo triangle etc
I'm still on my original set of front tyres (Corsas) although they only have a couple of thousand miles left in them (they are at c. 3.35m) and I'm on my second set of rears (now at c. 4mm
On brakes, the original rear pads are at 6mm which is a long way from even thinking about replacement - they were at 6.5 when it had the first service
The front pads were replaced under warranty so it's a more difficult picture but they were at 6mm when it had it's first service at 10k miles. They were replaced under warranty (incredibly fortuitously - I didn't ask - I think they had some cracking in them but it was something Wilmslow picked up on and replaced) when they were down to about 4 mil at very approx 13k miles and they are now at 8mm (I think they start off at c. 10mm ?) having done c. 4k miles including the imola track day since the replacement
Discs don't show any signs whatsoever of having anything other than an awful lot more life in them
I can assure you I don't drive like a granny !
I'm not going to disagree with anything said on here by Mike who sees many cars and has a lot of experience. I have to assume his stats are the norm. But you can drive the car hard AND get plenty more miles out of the brakes as the stats above demonstrate
I've done every single one of the 17,182 miles my car has now covered since it was new in Jan of last year (V12 Vantage Roadster)
It was serviced at 10,100 miles at the end of August last year 'on a mileage basis', then today on a 'time basis' (12 months since the last service)
As I found with my previous 2 V8s, I suspect my driving style may be sympathetic to tyre & brake wear - I'm not attempting to compare myself to Jenson Button as I make no efforts to preserve life of tyres/brakes - it's completely unintentional
Yes Ive done plenty of motorway miles but this is a second car and I;ve done track days at Silverstone & Imola, a couple of really intensive multi thousand mile alpine pass tours (where going downhill is very intensive on the brakes (they were smoking at one point) and plenty of trips where the car is driven really hard, such as multiple weekends in Wales for Evo triangle etc
I'm still on my original set of front tyres (Corsas) although they only have a couple of thousand miles left in them (they are at c. 3.35m) and I'm on my second set of rears (now at c. 4mm
On brakes, the original rear pads are at 6mm which is a long way from even thinking about replacement - they were at 6.5 when it had the first service
The front pads were replaced under warranty so it's a more difficult picture but they were at 6mm when it had it's first service at 10k miles. They were replaced under warranty (incredibly fortuitously - I didn't ask - I think they had some cracking in them but it was something Wilmslow picked up on and replaced) when they were down to about 4 mil at very approx 13k miles and they are now at 8mm (I think they start off at c. 10mm ?) having done c. 4k miles including the imola track day since the replacement
Discs don't show any signs whatsoever of having anything other than an awful lot more life in them
I can assure you I don't drive like a granny !
I'm not going to disagree with anything said on here by Mike who sees many cars and has a lot of experience. I have to assume his stats are the norm. But you can drive the car hard AND get plenty more miles out of the brakes as the stats above demonstrate
jonby said:
I'm not sue how this fits in with the rest of the info on the thread but I'll stick to the facts - interpret this as you will
I've done every single one of the 17,182 miles my car has now covered since it was new in Jan of last year (V12 Vantage Roadster)
It was serviced at 10,100 miles at the end of August last year 'on a mileage basis', then today on a 'time basis' (12 months since the last service)
As I found with my previous 2 V8s, I suspect my driving style may be sympathetic to tyre & brake wear - I'm not attempting to compare myself to Jenson Button as I make no efforts to preserve life of tyres/brakes - it's completely unintentional
Yes Ive done plenty of motorway miles but this is a second car and I;ve done track days at Silverstone & Imola, a couple of really intensive multi thousand mile alpine pass tours (where going downhill is very intensive on the brakes (they were smoking at one point) and plenty of trips where the car is driven really hard, such as multiple weekends in Wales for Evo triangle etc
I'm still on my original set of front tyres (Corsas) although they only have a couple of thousand miles left in them (they are at c. 3.35m) and I'm on my second set of rears (now at c. 4mm
On brakes, the original rear pads are at 6mm which is a long way from even thinking about replacement - they were at 6.5 when it had the first service
The front pads were replaced under warranty so it's a more difficult picture but they were at 6mm when it had it's first service at 10k miles. They were replaced under warranty (incredibly fortuitously - I didn't ask - I think they had some cracking in them but it was something Wilmslow picked up on and replaced) when they were down to about 4 mil at very approx 13k miles and they are now at 8mm (I think they start off at c. 10mm ?) having done c. 4k miles including the imola track day since the replacement
Discs don't show any signs whatsoever of having anything other than an awful lot more life in them
I can assure you I don't drive like a granny !
I'm not going to disagree with anything said on here by Mike who sees many cars and has a lot of experience. I have to assume his stats are the norm. But you can drive the car hard AND get plenty more miles out of the brakes as the stats above demonstrate
with those stats you fall into the light / normal wearer out of consumables, come join us for a Bamford rose loop, we might show you what the driver who wears a pad set in 5k mikes brakes like, or just ask little donkey I've done every single one of the 17,182 miles my car has now covered since it was new in Jan of last year (V12 Vantage Roadster)
It was serviced at 10,100 miles at the end of August last year 'on a mileage basis', then today on a 'time basis' (12 months since the last service)
As I found with my previous 2 V8s, I suspect my driving style may be sympathetic to tyre & brake wear - I'm not attempting to compare myself to Jenson Button as I make no efforts to preserve life of tyres/brakes - it's completely unintentional
Yes Ive done plenty of motorway miles but this is a second car and I;ve done track days at Silverstone & Imola, a couple of really intensive multi thousand mile alpine pass tours (where going downhill is very intensive on the brakes (they were smoking at one point) and plenty of trips where the car is driven really hard, such as multiple weekends in Wales for Evo triangle etc
I'm still on my original set of front tyres (Corsas) although they only have a couple of thousand miles left in them (they are at c. 3.35m) and I'm on my second set of rears (now at c. 4mm
On brakes, the original rear pads are at 6mm which is a long way from even thinking about replacement - they were at 6.5 when it had the first service
The front pads were replaced under warranty so it's a more difficult picture but they were at 6mm when it had it's first service at 10k miles. They were replaced under warranty (incredibly fortuitously - I didn't ask - I think they had some cracking in them but it was something Wilmslow picked up on and replaced) when they were down to about 4 mil at very approx 13k miles and they are now at 8mm (I think they start off at c. 10mm ?) having done c. 4k miles including the imola track day since the replacement
Discs don't show any signs whatsoever of having anything other than an awful lot more life in them
I can assure you I don't drive like a granny !
I'm not going to disagree with anything said on here by Mike who sees many cars and has a lot of experience. I have to assume his stats are the norm. But you can drive the car hard AND get plenty more miles out of the brakes as the stats above demonstrate
saying you did an imola track day or several alpine pass routes means nothing different to somebody else who say in UK does same mileage as your trip but drove harder and faster, developed more heat into system and wore out parts faster. Its all too anecdotal and subjective to draw anything conclusive from, But is your experience nonetheless.
This is all going a bit off tangent because the point of my message is buyer beware, get a density check done as part of pre purchase inspection. Its as simple as that, because we see what you don't, the cars hiding a surprise for new owner.
k all wrong with mine....51 k miles.....2 sets of pads though.....Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff