I would like to ask a stupid question!
Discussion
With a lot of talk about no funds for serious development, and what is the future of AM etc etc. Why cannot AM give the current range a completely new set of clothes.
Each new car to hit the cat walk tends to be a rehash of the old one cosmetically with a few new do dah's thrown in. A bit of carbon fibre here a vent there, maybe a sill or two.
It always seems the comments go along the lines of raiding existing parts bins.
There is some justification, as, to most people the various derivatives of Gaydon cars are difficult to tell one from another.
Yes, I know it works for Porsche but they are mass market cars. Not really sure if that makes a difference.
AM are capable of new design, the One-77 case in point, but surely they could apply that logic to their bread and butter range, keeping in main the internals, engine, gearbox, suspension, even the interior, but surrounding it in a new exciting body.
Going back to my youth, you looked forward to a new Cortina as it looked entirely different to its predecessor.
Surely a new shell would be far cheaper to produce rather than focussing on the oily bits. And also make the range more exciting with comparatively little investment
As the title suggests, there is probably a very good reason I am not aware of.
Please feel free to flame if I am missing the obvious.
Di
Each new car to hit the cat walk tends to be a rehash of the old one cosmetically with a few new do dah's thrown in. A bit of carbon fibre here a vent there, maybe a sill or two.
It always seems the comments go along the lines of raiding existing parts bins.
There is some justification, as, to most people the various derivatives of Gaydon cars are difficult to tell one from another.
Yes, I know it works for Porsche but they are mass market cars. Not really sure if that makes a difference.
AM are capable of new design, the One-77 case in point, but surely they could apply that logic to their bread and butter range, keeping in main the internals, engine, gearbox, suspension, even the interior, but surrounding it in a new exciting body.
Going back to my youth, you looked forward to a new Cortina as it looked entirely different to its predecessor.
Surely a new shell would be far cheaper to produce rather than focussing on the oily bits. And also make the range more exciting with comparatively little investment
As the title suggests, there is probably a very good reason I am not aware of.
Please feel free to flame if I am missing the obvious.
Di
that's effectively what they do isn't it ? That's what the virage is and the zagato for that matter
Although I assume though you mean across the board changes
But I think most of us on here are more worried about what's under the skin than the skin aren't we ? I have no problem with the cars looking similar - they look great, a la 911
But when a new 911 launches, everything under the skin is new too. For me, it's engine, transmission, certain electrical tech that needs to change, not the skin itself. Just my personal opinion - the press and non Aston people will contnue to make Clarksonesque 911 jibes of course
Although I assume though you mean across the board changes
But I think most of us on here are more worried about what's under the skin than the skin aren't we ? I have no problem with the cars looking similar - they look great, a la 911
But when a new 911 launches, everything under the skin is new too. For me, it's engine, transmission, certain electrical tech that needs to change, not the skin itself. Just my personal opinion - the press and non Aston people will contnue to make Clarksonesque 911 jibes of course
I think that's exactly what they've done with the Zagato!!
However, you could also argue, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. There's very little wrong with the current range and hey probably feel that the few cosmetic upgrades keep the range fresh enough. I'm sure that the new models whenever they arrive will be essentially the same too. Perhaps with new bodies and maybe new interiors. But mechanically? The VHS platform? The electrics?
However, you could also argue, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. There's very little wrong with the current range and hey probably feel that the few cosmetic upgrades keep the range fresh enough. I'm sure that the new models whenever they arrive will be essentially the same too. Perhaps with new bodies and maybe new interiors. But mechanically? The VHS platform? The electrics?
jonby said:
But I think most of us on here are more worried about what's under the skin than the skin aren't we ? I have no problem with the cars looking similar -
Sorry, perhaps I was not being clear. I didn't mean to include 'us' as in owners, more to attract new blood, sell more cars and secure future investment/income to develop new cars.You only have to see the posts in GG every time a new AM is displayed. The apathy is enormous rather than the excitement that should ensue. Not that I take much notice of that personally.
Di
Ice27 said:
I think that's exactly what they've done with the Zagato!!
However, you could also argue, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. There's very little wrong with the current range and hey probably feel that the few cosmetic upgrades keep the range fresh enough. I'm sure that the new models whenever they arrive will be essentially the same too. Perhaps with new bodies and maybe new interiors. But mechanically? The VHS platform? The electrics?
Yes but the Zagato is beyond us mere mortals limited to 150 I think. Hardly an example of the 'bread and butter' market I alluded to.However, you could also argue, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. There's very little wrong with the current range and hey probably feel that the few cosmetic upgrades keep the range fresh enough. I'm sure that the new models whenever they arrive will be essentially the same too. Perhaps with new bodies and maybe new interiors. But mechanically? The VHS platform? The electrics?
Di
lady topaz said:
You only have to see the posts in GG every time a new AM is displayed. The apathy is enormous rather than the excitement that should ensue. Not that I take much notice of that personally.
Di
I never quite know what's going on with those types of posts in GG, thought it might just be slating something they don't/can't have. Then I thought they might have a point, and the world rally did think AM was dull.Di
Then Ferrari did the F12berlinetta, and that got slated too even though it's utterly new, incredibly powerful with a daring and different design. They just slate everything, it's the society we live in. I can't have one, ergo it's shyte.
I've heard the DBS (which may be released in a few months) is going to be a beauty, but again a re-skin of the VH bit a bit more oomph.
Can't see VH platform being replaced as the only way to go up from there is a carbon monocoque. But is the VH out of date? Not really, it's strong, stiff, light and can take virtually any body shell. Good few years in it yet but AM need a new design. Not necessarily a total change like Jag with the new and old XJ, but like DB7 to DB9. A huge visual step but still with the same basic shape, just updated.
However, 'modern' does not equal beautiful. The 458/F12b or the SLS/MP4 are hardly beautiful, but they do look modern. I'd prefer Aston not to get all angular...
Yes, true. The point i was trying to make though is that the Zagato is really a V12V with a different body shell on. Aston Martin have made it a limited run and buyers will be paying for the exclusivity. They didn't even bother to change the interior!
So, it can easily be done and I think they're probably waiting for the centenary to launch the next generation of models, starting with the DBS and taking design cues from he 1-77.
As they stand, the current cars may have been around for a while and the few cosmetic upgrades have helped to keep them fresh but they're all still drop dead gorgeous and haven't exactly aged! I also like the fact that all the upgrades can easily be added to an original 2005/2006 model cars to keep themup to date too.
So, it can easily be done and I think they're probably waiting for the centenary to launch the next generation of models, starting with the DBS and taking design cues from he 1-77.
As they stand, the current cars may have been around for a while and the few cosmetic upgrades have helped to keep them fresh but they're all still drop dead gorgeous and haven't exactly aged! I also like the fact that all the upgrades can easily be added to an original 2005/2006 model cars to keep themup to date too.
lady topaz said:
Sorry, perhaps I was not being clear. I didn't mean to include 'us' as in owners, more to attract new blood, sell more cars and secure future investment/income to develop new cars.
You only have to see the posts in GG every time a new AM is displayed. The apathy is enormous rather than the excitement that should ensue. Not that I take much notice of that personally.
Di
I had a day at the Porsche Silverstone facility yesterday in all the 997 RS derivatives. Very very impressive cars - seriously capable. But I wouldnt want to drive one to London ( I live in Mcr), let alone to the South of France. I would have one with my Aston if I could afford to, but not instead of, as the noise, the interior, the exterior, etc wouldn't compare. But when you spend that kind of money, you go with what turns you on - fans of other marques who feel the same way about their car will always knock Aston won;t they ? It;s a very different decision as to what sports car you buy once you can afford them to when I was 10 yrs younger and dreaming about buying themYou only have to see the posts in GG every time a new AM is displayed. The apathy is enormous rather than the excitement that should ensue. Not that I take much notice of that personally.
Di
But the gap in capabilities does seem to be widening re: the competition and if it doesn;t close, at some point the Aston qualities won't be enough to overcome the 'deficiencies' in the cars if the R&D budget remains as tight as it currently is - the incremental improvement each time the competition launches a new car seems greater than when Aston do at the moment - just look at the jump from 599 to F12 or for that matter, the new bread & butter 911S which is supposedly quicker round a track than the outgoing GT3. I think that;s more important than new clothes but the most important thing, as you say, is not to care what they say about AM on GG !
Ice27 said:
they're all still drop dead gorgeous and haven't exactly aged!
Depends who you talk to. The Virage I think looks bang up to date as you would expect, a few more angles than the DB9, Christmas tree lights and mirrors on toothpicks as is the fashion. But I was surprised to find how many people seem to think the original Vantage and DB9 are looking dated now on another forum I frequent...I don't think so myself and I would have gone with 'classy' rather than dated. I don't think they will ever date in my eyes as the design is so cohesive, but they probably thought that about the DB7. Now it has a funny backside and big orange indicators!
I see what you are saying Di, if you look at the evolution from the 350Z to the 370Z or the 996 to the 997, they've taken ostensibly similar cars and evolved them into something more chiseled and up to date looking.
They could re-dress the Vantage and DB9 in one-77 style suits (which would look fantastic), but is this going to open the brand up to new markets? It would be interesting to see what % of sales are expected from the far east in the coming years (or indeed now) - perhaps they intend to stretch the still (to my eyes) fresh looking design language until say 2015 and wait for new markets to build capital to fund the next evolution of the brand.
Anyhow - just my random thoughts after a long week at work
They could re-dress the Vantage and DB9 in one-77 style suits (which would look fantastic), but is this going to open the brand up to new markets? It would be interesting to see what % of sales are expected from the far east in the coming years (or indeed now) - perhaps they intend to stretch the still (to my eyes) fresh looking design language until say 2015 and wait for new markets to build capital to fund the next evolution of the brand.
Anyhow - just my random thoughts after a long week at work
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