Turbo'ed Astons

[robgt]

So there's a 'new' Vantage! Let's be honest it was expected.

I stood and stared at my V8 engine yesterday, there is loads of room for 2 Turbo Chargers. Sleeve it down to a 4.4, fit low compression pistons which will bring down the ommisions, but up the horsepower to an easy 540 -550BHP. However, it won't happen for some time as long as we have the aged and heavy V12 engines producing 510 BHP.

Aston Martin must have an ongoing commitment to keep sourcing the V12 engines. It is not my intention to hurt anyones feelings but is what I am saying not plausible? Apparently the bottom end of the V8 engine can easily cope with more power, plus if the overall weight of the car was to come down a couple of hundred kilos Aston would have a serious contender. For instance bolting on lighter wheels would reduce unsprung weight which is a quick and easy start.

If we all wanted mental power we would buy the much cheaper Nissan GTR. I certainly don't want to go down that route! I shall stay loyal to the brand and continue to love and enjoy the magic of Aston Martin ownership.

It is as though the V12 engine is being pushed to its marketing limit now with the new GT3 and the Zagato.

[johng39]

The problem is that a turbo engine sounds nothing like a normally aspirated engine and you would lose one of the things we all love about both V8 & V12 engines.... The noise. I am sure that exhaust specialists would work their magic, but they would not replicate the sound.

Yes it could be monumentally loud if they wanted, but the turbo just flattens the sound and you would lose that beautiful noise.

Edited by johng39 on Monday 20th February 22:10

[George H]

Is 540-550bhp really required in the 'baby' Aston? By all means in the flagship model, I just don't see the point of raising the bar by such a huge margin for the basic model in the range. It would also raise the price by quite a bit.

And turboed engined generally sound crap compared to N/A.

I would like to see superchargers being used in a flagship model in the future though, twin supercharged DBS perhaps?

[Rex Racer]

George H said:

Is 540-550bhp really required in the 'baby' Aston?

Why not put 550 bhp in the Vantage? I plan to upgrade my exhaust system to bring my V12V up to 550 bhp. Lots of cars the size of the Vantage have that or more power. Although the base Vantage does not need that much power, I see no reason to reserve it only for the DBS.

[George H]

Rex Racer said:

Although the base Vantage does not need that much power

That was the point I was making.

[michael gould]

I thought Clarkson made a very good point in his article about the DBS in the Sunday Times.....that Aston should not chase the likes of BMW and Mercedes in the BHP race.....its getting daft with cars now capable of 200+ MPH and 0-60 in sub 4 seconds......the vast majority of drivers are not capable of handling that sort of power and never use it.....I hope that Turbos are never seen on an Aston

[yeti]

Interesting points. Personally I would not have forced induction when I could have a normally aspirated engine, a bit like preferring a manual box to a paddle shift - its what I want my traditional motoring experience to be. There's a good precedent for Supercharging Astons and I'd imagine we'll see this in the future.

What would be the place for a twin-turbo V8 Vantage from the factory? Aston make fast, driveable grand tourers with varying degrees of sportiness. A 550bhp Vantage makes sense as the flagship 'GT3/RS/Evo' halo model but umm... That's what the V12V is? Now that 475bhp can be Bamford Rose'd out of a 4.7 V8, I doubt much more would be exploitable really especially in a GT car. Thats your magical 100bhp/litre and reliable with it.

I'm hardly the person to preach about having too much power but I want something very specific and bespoke from my Aston hence a few changes all round for me so that's why I'm having the work done. If I wanted merely to go fast I'd buy a GTR.

I want the capability to go fast if I choose to, but to do it with an elan, panache and brio that no other marque can rival.

Edited by yeti on Tuesday 21st February 13:43

[robgt]

Yeti I have to say "Hear Hear." I honestly wanted to know peoples reaction. There will be changes in the not so distant future, there will have to be. As a total package no other marque gets near. I hopefully will be up for whatever transpires. In the meantime I might just have mentioned before, I love my V8VS!!

[Rex Racer]

michael gould said:

I thought Clarkson made a very good point in his article about the DBS in the Sunday Times.....that Aston should not chase the likes of BMW and Mercedes in the BHP race.....its getting daft with cars now capable of 200+ MPH and 0-60 in sub 4 seconds

I was thinking about the bhp race yesterday. I just read that the Ferrari 599 replacement will have over 700 bhp! Now I love horsepower, but this is getting ridiculous. I wonder where it will end.

[yeti]

Rex Racer said:

I was thinking about the bhp race yesterday. I just read that the Ferrari 599 replacement will have over 700 bhp! Now I love horsepower, but this is getting ridiculous. I wonder where it will end.

Very good point Rex, it has become about numbers and pub talk. I think the Aventador has around that number as well and the 458 isn't far off 600bhp in the 'baby' Ferrari? That is simply not a 'useable' amount of horsepower as when on track or road you'll be driving entirely on the driver aids the whole time or you'll be in the hedge/armco! I know such a thing would probably monster a DBS in the hands of a professional but to what end? Would you get to the South of France or across the Cat and Fiddle any quicker? Second gear at maximum revs, I would imagine the TC system is stopping most of the power or the tyres would just break away. I remember reading a Le Mans car would break traction in 4th at 140mph if you nailed it and they have 600bhp and slicks - but no driver aids.

I think the 599 replacement and Aventador are just very high-end GTR equivalents with a more snob-acceptable badge. In effect, 'Playstation cars' for the super-wealthy, although they have the advantage of beauty and desirability as well. It's a sphere of motoring I have no experience of as I am not interested in that style of driving and of course can't afford the cars! I could however afford an 800bhp Nissan Skyline R34 if I wanted to keep up. But I don't want to that much

My 600bhp+ DB9 (when finished) will be purely because I want something rare that when asked, can deliver something that no-one is expecting or can quite believe. But I will not be capable of using 600bhp during every gearshift, through the bends at Goodwood on an unfamiliar French road

[Rex Racer]

yeti said:

Very good point Rex, it has become about numbers and pub talk. I think the Aventador has around that number as well and the 458 isn't far off 600bhp in the 'baby' Ferrari? That is simply not a 'useable' amount of horsepower as when on track or road you'll be driving entirely on the driver aids the whole time or you'll be in the hedge/armco! I know such a thing would probably monster a DBS in the hands of a professional but to what end? Would you get to the South of France or across the Cat and Fiddle any quicker? Second gear at maximum revs, I would imagine the TC system is stopping most of the power or the tyres would just break away. I remember reading a Le Mans car would break traction in 4th at 140mph if you nailed it and they have 600bhp and slicks - but no driver aids.

I think the 599 replacement and Aventador are just very high-end GTR equivalents with a more snob-acceptable badge. In effect, 'Playstation cars' for the super-wealthy, although they have the advantage of beauty and desirability as well. It's a sphere of motoring I have no experience of as I am not interested in that style of driving and of course can't afford the cars! I could however afford an 800bhp Nissan Skyline R34 if I wanted to keep up. But I don't want to that much

I agree that, at some point, the additional horsepower becomes unusable. However, a lot of manufacturers are still getting it to the road using new technology, much of it electronic. The Aventador is just shy of 700 bhp but still seems to utilize most of that power with its ability to sprint to 60 (with launch control of course) in just 2.5 seconds. The problem is that it's the computers that are achieving this, as opposed to the drivers. All this technology is to a greater and greater extent taking the driver out of the equation. At this rate, the "driver" will soon be able to go 0-60 in under 2 seconds while sitting in the passenger seat checking his email account.

Another thought is that while a lot of the marquee names are churning out cars with ridiculous horsepower figures, they are pulling along the lesser marques with them. The GT-R, which you mentioned, is a good example of this. I mean, it's a freakin' Nissan! So, it's not only the big boys in this race.

[johng39]

I have to agree, an Aston is not about horsepower, it is something much more special than that. A very good friend of mine with a Gallardo commented after my European trip that he would never have done the same in his car. Moreover, when taking people out on charity days I was surprised how many people walked straight past the 500 & 600BHP Ferarri/Lambo's to take a ride in my 380BHP V8V. It had nothing to do with speed for them.

I have had more powerful 4WD electronic diff aided cars and they are immense, but I would never replace my Aston with one. They were not beautiful and they had no soul...... sorry to use that. Oh and they sound crap in comparison.

[quench]

Agree with most of the above posts. When does desire for more power in a road car cross into the realm of silliness? When we talk about the horsepower wars, are the manufacturers responding to customer demand, or are they just taking advantage of a marketing ploy that seems to be working well? No doubt, the latest electronics, gearbox and tire technologies are allowing for increasingly high power outputs to be manageable in road cars. These are impressive technological achievements, but they are more suited to d*ck waving than real life on today's roads. And these are road cars, so talk of 'taking them to the track' for anything more than a few fun laps, is irrelevant. I guess many people feel inadequate when a lot d*ck waving is going on around them, otherwise the manufacturers wouldn't stay on this strategy.

I just don't understand why anyone would want to turbo an Aston. Supercharging, maybe, given that there is some Aston history there. But if you are buying an Aston to modify, or mainly for the power or cutting edge engine/drivetrain technology, you are wasting your money - there are machines can be modified, that put out more power and showcase the newest technologies, for much less money. If you are buying an Aston because you have looked around and realized that the days of relatively large displacement, naturally aspirated engines, coupled to manual transmissions, are numbered, then IMO you are on the right track. And if you want a car with these attributes, along with distinctive style, bespoke feel, pedigree - something that doesn't feel mass-produced - well then you have definitely found the right place.

[Lunablack]

I got into the BHP race, firstly with my road bikes, and then with my TVR's..... Took me about 10 years, and £kkk's of pounds to realise it was all pretty much pointless......

I took my ZZR from a restricted 125bhp to a rear wheel 155bhp, could I ride it any faster?? No same with my GSXR street fighter, more power than I knew what to do with.....

I find the 380 ish (if that's what they have), of my standard 4.3V perfectly adequate for what I use the car for, anymore would just be wasted..... Well it would on me

[Molly GT]

Lunablack said:

I got into the BHP race, firstly with my road bikes, and then with my TVR's..... Took me about 10 years, and £kkk's of pounds to realise it was all pretty much pointless......

I took my ZZR from a restricted 125bhp to a rear wheel 155bhp, could I ride it any faster?? No same with my GSXR street fighter, more power than I knew what to do with.....

I find the 380 ish (if that's what they have), of my standard 4.3V perfectly adequate for what I use the car for, anymore would just be wasted..... Well it would on me

Rob GT was in the relentless search for more power with the bikes too (our last was an R1) but there does come a day when you think this is ridiculous - every new model of bike or fast car has to have MORE BHP and there's only so much a sane human can handle! (That last bit doesn't actually apply to him but you know what I mean)

[Neil1300R]

Molly GT said:

Rob GT was in the relentless search for more power with the bikes too (our last was an R1) but there does come a day when you think this is ridiculous - every new model of bike or fast car has to have MORE BHP and there's only so much a sane human can handle! (That last bit doesn't actually apply to him but you know what I mean)

Yep, been there done that on the bikes. Every year 3 /4 of us go to the Continent for a few days, every year at least one of us turns up with new kit / new bike. Got beat one year by a Blackbird, so next year turn up on a Hayabusa (the last of the unrestricted ones ). But, we have to go to the Continent to be able to use anywhere near full throttle in any gear, and even then we can't fully use the fully adjustable suspension / uprated beakes etc etc due to being on unknown public roads / lack of talent / or in my case sheer cowardice!

Back to the Astons - you can't comapre the Aston GT's to most Ferrari's / Lambo's for the simple reason you can't get luggage in them!. We use our Aston for holidays abroad (Aston Annie doesn't pack light ). Couldn't do 1-2 weeks away in a Fezza / Lambo.
So no to turboing the Vantage! If I want more power I'll go a different route and get a Vanquish S, which with a significant birthday this year may happen.

Well I can't admit to being in the pipe and slippers demographic can I!

[Jockman]

Neil1300R said:

...with a significant birthday this year...

You're only 5 years away from a bus pass Neil, so no real concerns about speed thereafter

[Neil1300R]

Jockman said:

You're only 5 years away from a bus pass Neil, so no real concerns about speed thereafter

Bus? Bus? I am not a fking poor person!
Trains and tubes I do most days, but buses, not a chance.

And I am not that bloody old!!

I'm beginning to sound like Mr Gould....

[michael gould]

Neil1300R said:

Jockman said:

You're only 5 years away from a bus pass Neil, so no real concerns about speed thereafter

Bus? Bus? I am not a fking poor person!
Trains and tubes I do most days, but buses, not a chance.

And I am not that bloody old!!

I'm beginning to sound like Mr Gould....

How very dare you !!!

[Rex Racer]

Another thought on power. Although more of it may not make a big difference on the track or when driving along a twisty road, it is fun to have when just cruising around, as on the highway. To be able to mash your foot and get thrown back in your seat at nearly any rpm level is a good thing and will always put a smile on my face. Manufacturers just need to ensure that they don't overdo it to the point where the additional power ruins the car.