What if .....................
Discussion
To move on from the ugliest car thread. What if the looks of the V12 Zagato just weren't to your taste but you had £400k burning a hole in your pocket to enhance your Aston fleet.
I would have a Zagato and the blue DB7 advertised on PH would suit me very nicely. I would also go for a V600 LeMans and I would hopefully still be able to have the V12 Vantage Roadster if it is ever made - in Mako Blue! If I am really lucky I would be able to hold on to my 9 as well.
What would you choose?
I would have a Zagato and the blue DB7 advertised on PH would suit me very nicely. I would also go for a V600 LeMans and I would hopefully still be able to have the V12 Vantage Roadster if it is ever made - in Mako Blue! If I am really lucky I would be able to hold on to my 9 as well.
What would you choose?
DB9 Ian P said:
had £400k burning a hole in your pocket to enhance your Aston fleet.
What would you choose?
I have all the modern Aston I need. So it's be a DB4. I would then have someone, probably Nick Mee change it to as close to a DB4GT as could be done with that was left.What would you choose?
In Chiltern green please
Edited by yeti on Thursday 9th February 13:36
Keep my S roadster which I guess is worth c. 85k now and for the a little over 300k that remains in this exercise, buy either an F40 - that to me puts the price of the Zag into perspective
Or buy an ultra low miles V12 Coupe for a little over 100k, Ferrari 16M (essentially a 430 scud spider) which is now around 160k s/h, low miles Jag XJ for every day at say 50ish and the remaining best part of 100k put to one side to service and run the fleet for a good few years
If it had to all be Aston, DB6 (200 ?), S Roadster (pref my current one, c. 85) and DBS manual coupe (1 yr old, 115 should just about do it)
There's loads more combinations. How about MP4-12C and a current Aston of your choosing (low miles, 100k+) and a Porsche 997 GT3 RS ? Or Bentley Continental for GT purposes, Vantage S roadster and the aforementioned Porsche for track days.
Unless you have a number of '2nd cars', in the context of a fleet worth several mils +, the idea of buying the Zag seems barmy when sat inside, the experience is no different to the regular V12V Coupe that is one quarter the price
Or buy an ultra low miles V12 Coupe for a little over 100k, Ferrari 16M (essentially a 430 scud spider) which is now around 160k s/h, low miles Jag XJ for every day at say 50ish and the remaining best part of 100k put to one side to service and run the fleet for a good few years
If it had to all be Aston, DB6 (200 ?), S Roadster (pref my current one, c. 85) and DBS manual coupe (1 yr old, 115 should just about do it)
There's loads more combinations. How about MP4-12C and a current Aston of your choosing (low miles, 100k+) and a Porsche 997 GT3 RS ? Or Bentley Continental for GT purposes, Vantage S roadster and the aforementioned Porsche for track days.
Unless you have a number of '2nd cars', in the context of a fleet worth several mils +, the idea of buying the Zag seems barmy when sat inside, the experience is no different to the regular V12V Coupe that is one quarter the price
jonby said:
Unless you have a number of '2nd cars', in the context of a fleet worth several mils +, the idea of buying the Zag seems barmy when sat inside, the experience is no different to the regular V12V Coupe that is one quarter the price
Err, I'm pretty sure that's who it's aimed at, not someone taking out finance to stretch to it! They will all be part of a collection, an interestingly shaped Aston with exclusivity. Think One-77 for millionaires rather than billionaires. That it doesn't outperform the V12V I think is wrong it should have an extra 20bhp just for the hell of it, but that's my only issue with it.
jonby said:
Keep my S roadster which I guess is worth c. 85k now and for the a little over 300k that remains in this exercise, buy either an F40 - that to me puts the price of the Zag into perspective
You'd be hard pushed to get an F40 for £300k, two have recently sold for just over £500k!For me there is so much choice out thre for £400k it would be a tough choice.
IM NUTS2 said:
You'd be hard pushed to get an F40 for £300k, two have recently sold for just over £500k!
For me there is so much choice out thre for £400k it would be a tough choice.
The only one on PH Classified with a price is 370k and I think 400k bdudget would buy one that you'd be perfectly happy with but I take your point - the prices are definitely going up and that's a car whihc a fair number were produced - can people imagine the V12 Zag ever being held in quite the same esteem as an investment ?For me there is so much choice out thre for £400k it would be a tough choice.
clorenzen said:
There are only very few DB4s out there with the faired in lights (and the GT spec engine) so 400k will not get you one of those Im afraid. For a full DB4 GT you would be paying 0.8m-1.2 million depending on condition.
Exatly. Hence buying a standard DB4 and seeing how far towards the GT mark the rest of the £400k could get me Obviously things like the wheelbase would be left, but engine and faired in lights, vents etc could be fabbed for the money I'm sure.
yeti said:
jonby said:
Unless you have a number of '2nd cars', in the context of a fleet worth several mils +, the idea of buying the Zag seems barmy when sat inside, the experience is no different to the regular V12V Coupe that is one quarter the price
Err, I'm pretty sure that's who it's aimed at, not someone taking out finance to stretch to it! They will all be part of a collection, an interestingly shaped Aston with exclusivity. Think One-77 for millionaires rather than billionaires. That it doesn't outperform the V12V I think is wrong it should have an extra 20bhp just for the hell of it, but that's my only issue with it.
After all the hype of the concept, not only as you say does the Zag have no more power, it also has the same exhaust (despite the concept/racing car's amazing one), transmission, brakes, tyres, running gear, etc of the V12 Coupe. The interior is essentially the same - it is only some of the finishes to the leather and the dash which are different but the components themselves are identical. You could get that done to a V12 coupe interior for in relative terms, not much money, say £10-20k.
They couldn't even make the cheap black seat switches in the chrome of the latest Virage/DBS or put glass buttons on from the latest released photos by AM
I'll admit I am more passionately opinionated & prejudiced on all this because I desperately wanted one, kept close to the project and then pulled out when I saw the final contract (price & spec) but I can't help feel this project started out with one intention and then badly let itself down because of budgetry constraints meaning the final outcome is not what was originally intended. I have enough feedback from people both within & outside AM to strongly feel this is the case
So I'm not sure even amongst those who do have say a 2 mil collection that the Zag stacks up
I will be most interested to see how many they actually sell. They will limit it to 150 but only build for those that place a 100k deposit against a non-cancellable order within the next few months. Perhaps they will only make 30-40. That would make it even more exclusive than a ONE 77. Does it not say it all that when Porsche, Ferrari and the like do projects like these, they sell out to special invited customers before mere mortals even have a chance to place an expression of interest. But AM are still trying to push sales of the Zag. People aren't stupid and when a Ferrari SA Aperta, of which just 80 were built, was sold at a similar (slightly lower) price to the Zag, the Zag simply doesn't stack up
clorenzen said:
But it would not exactly "value enhancing" if you added GT bits to an original DB4 - rather the opposite. Bramleys in Surrey have two DB4 chassis that they are building into GT spec and I'm not sure they ever get their money back performing that stunt.
You do realise that this is all theoretical for me anyway? For £400k I'd be off to Rolls Royce, Ferrari, Bentley and Range Rover - I already have an Aston 
jonby said:
Stuff
Fair enough; I was never in the market and never anticipate being in the market for such a car, I do have friends who don't care what they spend and they're the sort that buy them AFAIK. They don't take finance out, they buy them because other people don't have them or because they're the latest thing out. They don't look at the brochures or the spec sheet or read What Car, they buy them because they like them, and really, on the road, would anyone find the power/handling lacking..?I agree there is virtually no differentiation between it and the V12, and that's not good enough to justify the cost, I suppose it's a car that just exists, it doesn't need a justification. But if TVR could have their switchgear custom made, so could AM for the Zagato.
yeti said:
jonby said:
Stuff
Fair enough; I was never in the market and never anticipate being in the market for such a car, I do have friends who don't care what they spend and they're the sort that buy them AFAIK. They don't take finance out, they buy them because other people don't have them or because they're the latest thing out. They don't look at the brochures or the spec sheet or read What Car, they buy them because they like them, and really, on the road, would anyone find the power/handling lacking..?I agree there is virtually no differentiation between it and the V12, and that's not good enough to justify the cost, I suppose it's a car that just exists, it doesn't need a justification. But if TVR could have their switchgear custom made, so could AM for the Zagato.
FYI, there is a 50k rose gold option for the switchgear on the ONE 77 which some people buy because they want their car to be more exclusive than a 'regular ONE 77'
I just feel that £400k crosses something of a threshold. Shy of the one mil + hypercars, there is effectively nothing out there at all at this 'middle' price - the ceiling seems to be around 250k plus options for all the supercars currently in the market, 599 GTO/Aperta being an exception. Is the Zag's exclusivity, different looks & the wonderful ONE77 collection facility really enough to get it selling at 400k ? Of perhaps more interest, what will residuals be like ? Time will tell........
PS Of course I hope they sell 150 rather than 50, so that there is more chance of value going down and then I can get one second hand in a few years for <200k !!! Wishful thinking.........
jonby said:
FYI, there is a 50k rose gold option for the switchgear on the ONE 77 which some people buy because they want their car to be more exclusive than a 'regular ONE 77'
Wonderful! £400k, wasn't a Zonda that kind of money? Also in the region were/are Enzo, MC-12, Spyker, Ascari, Lexus LFA, Gumpert Apollo and the Koeniggsegg CCX. It's above 'mass-production' supercars (458/Aventador/MP4) but below the hypercars (Veyron, Agrera, Huayra, One-77).
So there is a niche and previous motoring curiousities at that level, but it's not a very big niche. I doubt Spyker have made 150 cars - although Mrs Yeti's great-grandfather held the Brooklands record in one in 1909
yeti said:
Wonderful!
£400k, wasn't a Zonda that kind of money? Also in the region were/are Enzo, MC-12, Spyker, Ascari, Lexus LFA, Gumpert Apollo and the Koeniggsegg CCX. It's above 'mass-production' supercars (458/Aventador/MP4) but below the hypercars (Veyron, Agrera, Huayra, One-77).
So there is a niche and previous motoring curiousities at that level, but it's not a very big niche. I doubt Spyker have made 150 cars - although Mrs Yeti's great-grandfather held the Brooklands record in one in 1909
What a great piece of family history !£400k, wasn't a Zonda that kind of money? Also in the region were/are Enzo, MC-12, Spyker, Ascari, Lexus LFA, Gumpert Apollo and the Koeniggsegg CCX. It's above 'mass-production' supercars (458/Aventador/MP4) but below the hypercars (Veyron, Agrera, Huayra, One-77).
So there is a niche and previous motoring curiousities at that level, but it's not a very big niche. I doubt Spyker have made 150 cars - although Mrs Yeti's great-grandfather held the Brooklands record in one in 1909
Zondas were monstrously cheaper when they were less established/respected but as that changed, prices rocketed. New Spykers & Gumperts are c 200k & 250k+ respectively. I think Gumperts may have gone up since I last looked, but they did hold the Top Gear lap record once ! :l-) All of the cars mentioned in these posts could or have been near the top of same except the Spyker and therefore perhaps it's no coincidence that the Spyker is the 'cheap' one. The Zag would struggle to get above half way. Ascari btw I know v little about price/market wise
Enzo, Koenisggsegg & MC-12 were much cheaper but we forget that was 10 yrs agoish. A second hand enzo or MC12 will cost 800k-1 mil now and rising. Market has moved on (mainly because of Zonda and Bugatti prices IMO) - current entry price of a hypercar is as you say much higher, at say 1 mil +/- 200k including the anticipated price of Enzo replacement and 'mega mac').
Lexus LFA I'd forgotten about. It's very comparible, along with the GTO and Aperta I mentioned previously. Yes they are making 500 LFAs not 100, but it's still rare, it's got a super exotic engine which is not available in anything else, very high tech interior and costs 330k. So yet another example of what to do with 400k - S Roadster and LFA for the same price as a Zag.
The LFA holds loads of production car lap records and is considered unique & special to drive. All the cars referred to here are rare, exotic looking & special to drive. The Zag only fits the bill of the first two points - the V12 Coupe is a great car to drive but it's performance is not in the league of the other cars you refer to (again, Spyker aside, which I love the looks of but is a different car at a different price and commercially, failed)
In that respect, the Zag at 400k fits into a category all of it's own. The only comparables are perhaps the complete one offs, such as the Lancia Stratos based on a Ferrari or the one offs that the Sultan of Brunei and such like get Ferrari to do but whilst massively more expensive and similar performance to the donor car, they are literally one offs
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