Test drove an S today.......
Discussion
(for those who are at all interested)............To follow on from my woes about the suspension on my 4.7 sport pack car, I went out in an S and a non-sport pack 4.7 today. The nice chaps at Cambridge Aston were keen to let me try other cars to try and see what's up with my disliking of my 4.7 sport pack car which I find far to harsh in the ride department. (But fantastic everywhere else)
1st time I've driven an S. Very nice, I liked the gearbox quite a lot, it's a good step up from the previous version which I also drove today. I'd still prefer a dual clutch style 'box if I were to be converted to an auto, but would certainly be very happy to live with the new 'box in an S.
Proved my point about the sport pack being rock hard, the S was noticeably more softly spring and less crashy and fidgety over the bumpy bits. It is still very firm and supportive, but the initial feel when you hit a bump or rut is far more soft and complaint than in my SP car. It made my 4.7SP car feel like it's got 4 flat tyres!! The 4.7 non-SP that I drove was perfect. Just firm enough to be fun on the road but not uncomfortable over the ruts and potholes. Maybe 5 years of racing has turned me into more of a picky guy when it come to road cars, I just don't see the need for "track car" firmness when you're on the B604 or popping to Waitrose.
Might I be the 1st customer ever to remove the sport pack suspension from a car!!??
What I did learn from my test drive though, is that I will ONLY be happy when there is a V12 parked in my garage. The one I drove felt the same as the S in the firmness stakes. Not as harsh as my 4.7. I'm starting to wonder if I've got a dodgy set of springs on mine or something.....
Wouldn't it have been great if Aston had fitted the ADS (active damping system) to the Vantages. It'd make the likes of the S and V12 so much more fun to drive in all conditions. I wonder if it can be retrofitted
1st time I've driven an S. Very nice, I liked the gearbox quite a lot, it's a good step up from the previous version which I also drove today. I'd still prefer a dual clutch style 'box if I were to be converted to an auto, but would certainly be very happy to live with the new 'box in an S.
Proved my point about the sport pack being rock hard, the S was noticeably more softly spring and less crashy and fidgety over the bumpy bits. It is still very firm and supportive, but the initial feel when you hit a bump or rut is far more soft and complaint than in my SP car. It made my 4.7SP car feel like it's got 4 flat tyres!! The 4.7 non-SP that I drove was perfect. Just firm enough to be fun on the road but not uncomfortable over the ruts and potholes. Maybe 5 years of racing has turned me into more of a picky guy when it come to road cars, I just don't see the need for "track car" firmness when you're on the B604 or popping to Waitrose.
Might I be the 1st customer ever to remove the sport pack suspension from a car!!??
What I did learn from my test drive though, is that I will ONLY be happy when there is a V12 parked in my garage. The one I drove felt the same as the S in the firmness stakes. Not as harsh as my 4.7. I'm starting to wonder if I've got a dodgy set of springs on mine or something.....
Wouldn't it have been great if Aston had fitted the ADS (active damping system) to the Vantages. It'd make the likes of the S and V12 so much more fun to drive in all conditions. I wonder if it can be retrofitted
JohnG1 is correct, Bamford Rose can retrofit their own Adaptive Damping kit, I'm having it done and Pommehogster already has it on his Vantage.
Mike says it takes you from softer than sports pack to harder, so road to track really, no need to compromise. Should help get that power down too
Mike says it takes you from softer than sports pack to harder, so road to track really, no need to compromise. Should help get that power down too
Jockman said:
ADS = Adaptive Damping System ?
As in the Virage I drove a few months ago ?
As in my inability to drive a car hard enough to activate it ?
Thus I'm in no position to say yah or nah on this one I'm afraid
Surely you don't 'activate' it by driving hard do you? I thought you would choose the setting - i.e. normal, sport, track(?) type modes, and it would change the suspension to suit. Sure you aren't thinking of the ABS, or traction control? Or is it me thinking of something else? As in the Virage I drove a few months ago ?
As in my inability to drive a car hard enough to activate it ?
Thus I'm in no position to say yah or nah on this one I'm afraid
George H said:
Surely you don't 'activate' it by driving hard do you? I thought you would choose the setting - i.e. normal, sport, track(?) type modes, and it would change the suspension to suit. Sure you aren't thinking of the ABS, or traction control? Or is it me thinking of something else?
The prodriver with me Georgio was forever trying to get me to take bends a lot quicker than I was comfortable with (especially in an unfamiliar car) so that I could experience how the car adjusted itself in different scenarios.He also showed me the manual selection button to which you refer.
As I say, I never got to really experience it. Perhaps you will be more successful whenever you get into a Virage?
Edit - just looked in the Virage book I was given on the day..."ADS...using electronically controlled dampers that automatically adjust to provide the optimum settings to suit driver input, speed and road surface quality, ADS also has a switchable Sport mode for maximum confidence during spirited driving." There are 2 modes.
Edited by Jockman on Wednesday 1st February 21:58
Yup, it's similar to Magnetic ride on the Audi R8 and the PMSL on Porkers.
Usually the dampers have two modes, one which is off and soft and another with is on and firm - they work by passing a n electric current through the fluid which contains metal particles, so it gets much stiffer when it is on. Some dampers also have trick valves in them which can let fluid through fast if the damper is "hit" hard, but allows the fluid to pass much more slowly if the damper gets loaded up progressively as it does when you turn into a corner as a pose to hitting a pothole. Koni make some fantastic shocks like this which are totally passive (not electric) but which seem to function like ADS does. In fact I wonder if Astons ADS is a combination of both types I've mentioned. That would be perfect!
Grants book says that ADS was an option on later DB9's and has always been standard to the DBS, I just wish it was also standard on the V8S and V12's.
Bamford Rose are fitting their own ADS type adaptive dampers. Not sure if they fit onto the modified 4.7 vantage cars. I think that they are a little less firm that the sport pack on "comfort" mode and then go even harder in "track" mode. Maybe Mike is reading this and can give his thoughts?
Usually the dampers have two modes, one which is off and soft and another with is on and firm - they work by passing a n electric current through the fluid which contains metal particles, so it gets much stiffer when it is on. Some dampers also have trick valves in them which can let fluid through fast if the damper is "hit" hard, but allows the fluid to pass much more slowly if the damper gets loaded up progressively as it does when you turn into a corner as a pose to hitting a pothole. Koni make some fantastic shocks like this which are totally passive (not electric) but which seem to function like ADS does. In fact I wonder if Astons ADS is a combination of both types I've mentioned. That would be perfect!
Grants book says that ADS was an option on later DB9's and has always been standard to the DBS, I just wish it was also standard on the V8S and V12's.
Bamford Rose are fitting their own ADS type adaptive dampers. Not sure if they fit onto the modified 4.7 vantage cars. I think that they are a little less firm that the sport pack on "comfort" mode and then go even harder in "track" mode. Maybe Mike is reading this and can give his thoughts?
Edited by Mr Noble on Wednesday 1st February 23:55
Jockman said:
My March 2009 DB9 doesn't have it on the spec sheet, so must be thereafter
Looks like it became standard on the DB9 for MY2010. Car Website said:
Aston Martin has released details of styling, engineering and equipment changes to its DB9 range. The DB9 has become a successful seller for Aston Martin and this is the first major change to the range since its debut in 2003.
The British manufacturer has given its volume seller a new front bumper, bright finish radiator grille and a re-shaped lower intake featuring bright mesh. New headlight bezels, re-styled sills, silver brake callipers, redesigned alloy wheels and clear rear light lenses complete the styling changes.
The DB9's passive damping system has been replaced by a new adaptive damping system (ADS), which is now standard along with a new tyre pressure monitoring system, a revised Bluetooth microphone system and radio hi-fi options.
Aston Martin's Product Development Director, Ian Minards, described the changes: "The DB9 was the first car built at Gaydon adopting the VH architecture. It has evolved every year since, with significant changes including a power upgrade and successive reductions in CO2 emissions. The latest package of improvements goes further than ever".
The Aston Martin DB9 is available in Coupé or Volante (convertible) with a six-speed manual gearbox as standard. Production of the revised DB9 has commenced and is available for delivery from July. Prices start from £122,445 for the DB9 Coupé and £131,445 for the DB9 Volante.
Shane Hickey - 28 Jun 2010
The British manufacturer has given its volume seller a new front bumper, bright finish radiator grille and a re-shaped lower intake featuring bright mesh. New headlight bezels, re-styled sills, silver brake callipers, redesigned alloy wheels and clear rear light lenses complete the styling changes.
The DB9's passive damping system has been replaced by a new adaptive damping system (ADS), which is now standard along with a new tyre pressure monitoring system, a revised Bluetooth microphone system and radio hi-fi options.
Aston Martin's Product Development Director, Ian Minards, described the changes: "The DB9 was the first car built at Gaydon adopting the VH architecture. It has evolved every year since, with significant changes including a power upgrade and successive reductions in CO2 emissions. The latest package of improvements goes further than ever".
The Aston Martin DB9 is available in Coupé or Volante (convertible) with a six-speed manual gearbox as standard. Production of the revised DB9 has commenced and is available for delivery from July. Prices start from £122,445 for the DB9 Coupé and £131,445 for the DB9 Volante.
Shane Hickey - 28 Jun 2010
Mr Noble said:
Looks like it became standard on the DB9 for MY2010.
I've got the updated power - also the bright grille, silver calipers and clear rears, but only through the optional extra route.Car Website said:
Aston Martin has released details of styling, engineering and equipment changes to its DB9 range. The DB9 has become a successful seller for Aston Martin and this is the first major change to the range since its debut in 2003.
The British manufacturer has given its volume seller a new front bumper, bright finish radiator grille and a re-shaped lower intake featuring bright mesh. New headlight bezels, re-styled sills, silver brake callipers, redesigned alloy wheels and clear rear light lenses complete the styling changes.
The DB9's passive damping system has been replaced by a new adaptive damping system (ADS), which is now standard along with a new tyre pressure monitoring system, a revised Bluetooth microphone system and radio hi-fi options.
Aston Martin's Product Development Director, Ian Minards, described the changes: "The DB9 was the first car built at Gaydon adopting the VH architecture. It has evolved every year since, with significant changes including a power upgrade and successive reductions in CO2 emissions. The latest package of improvements goes further than ever".
The Aston Martin DB9 is available in Coupé or Volante (convertible) with a six-speed manual gearbox as standard. Production of the revised DB9 has commenced and is available for delivery from July. Prices start from £122,445 for the DB9 Coupé and £131,445 for the DB9 Volante.
Shane Hickey - 28 Jun 2010
The British manufacturer has given its volume seller a new front bumper, bright finish radiator grille and a re-shaped lower intake featuring bright mesh. New headlight bezels, re-styled sills, silver brake callipers, redesigned alloy wheels and clear rear light lenses complete the styling changes.
The DB9's passive damping system has been replaced by a new adaptive damping system (ADS), which is now standard along with a new tyre pressure monitoring system, a revised Bluetooth microphone system and radio hi-fi options.
Aston Martin's Product Development Director, Ian Minards, described the changes: "The DB9 was the first car built at Gaydon adopting the VH architecture. It has evolved every year since, with significant changes including a power upgrade and successive reductions in CO2 emissions. The latest package of improvements goes further than ever".
The Aston Martin DB9 is available in Coupé or Volante (convertible) with a six-speed manual gearbox as standard. Production of the revised DB9 has commenced and is available for delivery from July. Prices start from £122,445 for the DB9 Coupé and £131,445 for the DB9 Volante.
Shane Hickey - 28 Jun 2010
My car is so old
Interesting thread, as they say one mans meat is another's poison, which is one reason why the guide does say " but be sure to pick out some lumpty tarmac to see if you are happy with the slow/fast ride " your car does seem particularly harsh Greg, has the dealer checked it out including tyre pressure? The Sports Pack does makes the V8 a more focused drivers car and it is very popular, my advice would be to live with it for a few months before making a leap. You may regret the change in summer when you are using the cars potential to the full on a twisty road
The other guys have already mentioned there are aftermarket ADS style adaptive dampers, Prodrive also developed a set-up with Eibach, but they are all expensive. Changing to standard springs/dampers would be the way to go if you still don't like the ride after time, your supplying dealer would no doubt do you subsidised deal, keeping the SP wheels would actually then make the car slightly more compliant than a standard car due to the reduction in unstrung weight.
The other guys have already mentioned there are aftermarket ADS style adaptive dampers, Prodrive also developed a set-up with Eibach, but they are all expensive. Changing to standard springs/dampers would be the way to go if you still don't like the ride after time, your supplying dealer would no doubt do you subsidised deal, keeping the SP wheels would actually then make the car slightly more compliant than a standard car due to the reduction in unstrung weight.
George H said:
Are you sure they're magneto rheological dampers?
I didn't think they were, I presumed it was either a hydraulic or pneumatic system.
I'm with George, I did not think that they were magnetorheological dampers.I didn't think they were, I presumed it was either a hydraulic or pneumatic system.
I had a 911 with PASM. Terriible system! It had two settings (1) Normal (2) Sport. Sport basically offered no suspension - you would feel that your kidneys were going to fall off. It was harder than a skateboard. Not fun...
George H said:
Are you sure they're magneto rheological dampers?
I didn't think they were, I presumed it was either a hydraulic or pneumatic system.
Correct sir, hydraulic. IIRC the Virage system works the opposite way to the DBS. DBS goes straight to high resistance and then softens as you go, Virage works its way up from soft dependant on how hard you're driving.I didn't think they were, I presumed it was either a hydraulic or pneumatic system.
I hope someone will swiftly correct me if I'm misinformed and therefore misinforming.
JohnG1 said:
I had a 911 with PASM. Terriible system! It had two settings (1) Normal (2) Sport. Sport basically offered no suspension - you would feel that your kidneys were going to fall off. It was harder than a skateboard. Not fun...
I had a 997 C2S and agree with you, the "sport" setting on the switchable dampers was far too hard on the road, great on track but no fun on the road. My Aston about the same 
I agree Grant, it'd be silly to make any changes until I've had a few drives in warmer weather, and maybe with new rubber all round.
I think my tyres are the original ones and they do tend to get a little bit harder after every winter sat in a cold garage. There is alos only 2-3mm left on them, which may add to the poor quality and feel.
A good quality aftermarket damper that offered a comfort ride that is softer than a non-sport pack and a "sport" ride that is about as firm as the sport pack would be fantastic.
I'm still interested to learn how the so called "dual rate" coil springs fitted to the S and V12 cars work. I'd guess that the top part of the coil is wound slightly softer than the lower part. Maybe it's this that seems to give these cars a more forgiving ride over the slow bumpy stuff in comparison to the normal sport pack springs.
I guess if there is a degree of tolerance between one set of springs and another, it may just be that my car got fitted with a very hard set.
My car feels firmer than my old race car that was fitted with Quantum dampers and 550/650 spring rate coils! The road version by comparison would run on 350/450's.
Does anyone know who makes the standard sportpack springs?
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