Discussion
Considering buying a DB9, but not convinced by the auto option. Tried it on a Volante and although okay, not blown away. I've driven a manual DBS which was stunning, but manual DB9's seem few and far between. My thinking is that there's probably a good reason why. Anyone got experience of a manula DB9? How do they compare with Touchtronic, or indeed a mnaula DBS?
JDH1 said:
Anyone got experience of a manula DB9? How do they compare with Touchtronic, or indeed a mnaula DBS?
I have one and it's fantastic! There aren't many about due to the traditional owners / target demographic of the big GTs who are looking for comfort first and performance second, and the TouchTronic does a decent job of that. The manual brings the car alive, and it's the same box as the DBS (obviously). Car is a lot more urgent as there is no power being lost to a torque converter, but still plenty of torque when you're feeling lazy and you just want to leve it on sixth from 40mph onwards or 4th through a series of bends.
If you liked the DBS, I suggest you hold out for a Sports Pack equipped manual DB9, they do exist and one will come up soon if there isn't one about right now.
Personally, and contrary to Yeti (and I may well be in the minority), I think manuals are s
te. I really don't understand the "driver's car" comments. It is just outdated technology, I would always side with paddleshift. I hate having to take my hand off the wheel to change gear, you lose all the feedback through the steering wheel, and you cannot change as fast. I think double clutch automated manuals are the way forward, and until Aston develop such a system, I will stick with TT2. The only benefit I can see from manual's is you can blip the throttle whenever you like, and it's easier to change from forward gears to reverse.
te. I really don't understand the "driver's car" comments. It is just outdated technology, I would always side with paddleshift. I hate having to take my hand off the wheel to change gear, you lose all the feedback through the steering wheel, and you cannot change as fast. I think double clutch automated manuals are the way forward, and until Aston develop such a system, I will stick with TT2. The only benefit I can see from manual's is you can blip the throttle whenever you like, and it's easier to change from forward gears to reverse. 
Quinny said:
Yeah, they're driven by people who can't drive a manual
Ignoring the fact that automated manuals are significantly better 
Best of both worlds - paddles for blasting down some country roads, auto for real world traffic jam situations.
As for you Jockman, go de-rail another thread
I owned a manual DB9 for the best part of three years. I preferred it to the TT2 when I was testing DB9s.
This is my old car.
This is my old car.
As you found during your test drives, the driving experience is very different between the manual and auto gearboxes.
I drive a Golf with a DSG box for the daily grind, but personally I prefer the interaction of the manual box for journeys in the DB9. If I needed to drive it every day in stop-start traffic I'd want an auto. As it is, I don't, and I get a great deal of pleasure from the manual box. There can be few greater pleasures in life than red-lining a DB9 in third gear.
I'm told that only 10% of DB9s are manual, and I've experienced first hand that some AM dealers just don't understand or recommend them, so yes they are rare but should not be overlooked.
At the end of the day they are both exceptional cars, it's just a matter of personal preference.
I drive a Golf with a DSG box for the daily grind, but personally I prefer the interaction of the manual box for journeys in the DB9. If I needed to drive it every day in stop-start traffic I'd want an auto. As it is, I don't, and I get a great deal of pleasure from the manual box. There can be few greater pleasures in life than red-lining a DB9 in third gear.
I'm told that only 10% of DB9s are manual, and I've experienced first hand that some AM dealers just don't understand or recommend them, so yes they are rare but should not be overlooked.
At the end of the day they are both exceptional cars, it's just a matter of personal preference.
I have got a manual DB9 Volante because
1. I drive the Aston for fun and it is much more engaging with the manual box
2. Autos improve every year but are a work in progress . If you are keeping the car the auto will quickly become out of date - try a Ferrari 456 GTA of a few years back - it's awful but the manual is great.
So if you want the DB9 for a daily commute go for the auto otherwise start the search
1. I drive the Aston for fun and it is much more engaging with the manual box
2. Autos improve every year but are a work in progress . If you are keeping the car the auto will quickly become out of date - try a Ferrari 456 GTA of a few years back - it's awful but the manual is great.
So if you want the DB9 for a daily commute go for the auto otherwise start the search
hartley said:
...it is much more engaging with the manual box
Indeed.When prodriving a manual DBS the other week (should have been a V12V but its the same principle), I found it to be great fun and a very interesting education. Certainly would not turn my back on an AM just because it was manual.
The TT is, however, a lazy man's dream
George H said:
Go tell Michael Schumacher that 
I take your point in some people prefer them, but I just can't see any advantages. All I will say is, there is a reason why so few supercars have manual options.
Indeed. There are lots of reasons.I take your point in some people prefer them, but I just can't see any advantages. All I will say is, there is a reason why so few supercars have manual options.
Lots of customers don't want manual gearboxes.
For cars with huge amounts of torque it's often easier for the manufacturer to fit a torque convertor auto-box in order to prevent clutch abuse - think big Mercedes before the SLS AMG.
Look at the Lamborghini Gallardo. They went through six different types of manual gearbox clutch as owners were burning them out. In that case it was partially due to the mechanical layout meaning that a small clutch was the only way to package the car.
The recent trend for 400bhp + 3 series size cars and 500bhp 5 series cars has meant that a lot of money has gone into development of kit to handle that sort of power. So look to see what mass market manufacturers are doing and we'll see similar in the next generation of supercars.
Quinny said:
George.... Sometime I think you get Facts and opinions mixed up
Possibly.But what else is there to compare except for speed of gear change, economy, and emmisions? The double clutch automated manual box wins in all those areas.
According to Wikipedia - "the DSG takes only about 8 milliseconds to upshift". I don't know about you, but if you can change gear in a manual in 8 milliseconds then I will eat my words
George H said:
Possibly.But what else is there to compare except for speed of gear change, economy, and emmisions? The double clutch automated manual box wins in all those areas.
According to Wikipedia - "the DSG takes only about 8 milliseconds to upshift". I don't know about you, but if you can change gear in a manual in 8 milliseconds then I will eat my words
George - I drive a six litre V12 (in between driving into walls) and I assure you that it's not high up on my list.
The economy numbers are nonsense. The PDK box in a 911 turbo will have you in 5th gear at 30mph and 7th gear at 50mph. So if you put your foot down you get a monster amount of turbo lag and a 3 or 5 gear kick-down in order to accelerate. Once you drive the car like a normal petrolhead and switch to Sport+ mode the economy is just as bad. In economics/finance this is called Goodharts law, once you set a target using one measurement the system changes and that measurement becomes useless. A bit like the observer effect in quantum physics...
Most of the time the pdk is absolutely awesome but it can gets it's knickers in a twist and not get into gear properly. I expect with more development that will be corrected.
JohnG1 said:
Emmissions?
George - I drive a six litre V12 (in between driving into walls) and I assure you that it's not high up on my list.
The economy numbers are nonsense. The PDK box in a 911 turbo will have you in 5th gear at 30mph and 7th gear at 50mph. So if you put your foot down you get a monster amount of turbo lag and a 3 or 5 gear kick-down in order to accelerate. Once you drive the car like a normal petrolhead and switch to Sport+ mode the economy is just as bad. In economics/finance this is called Goodharts law, once you set a target using one measurement the system changes and that measurement becomes useless. A bit like the observer effect in quantum physics...
Most of the time the pdk is absolutely awesome but it can gets it's knickers in a twist and not get into gear properly. I expect with more development that will be corrected.
I agree, I couldn't care less about what my or any other car emmits. But if it brings the car down a tax band or two, then it's obviously a benifit.George - I drive a six litre V12 (in between driving into walls) and I assure you that it's not high up on my list.
The economy numbers are nonsense. The PDK box in a 911 turbo will have you in 5th gear at 30mph and 7th gear at 50mph. So if you put your foot down you get a monster amount of turbo lag and a 3 or 5 gear kick-down in order to accelerate. Once you drive the car like a normal petrolhead and switch to Sport+ mode the economy is just as bad. In economics/finance this is called Goodharts law, once you set a target using one measurement the system changes and that measurement becomes useless. A bit like the observer effect in quantum physics...
Most of the time the pdk is absolutely awesome but it can gets it's knickers in a twist and not get into gear properly. I expect with more development that will be corrected.
For real world use, it can be more efficient, however you're right, when driven hard they aren't really any better.
Can you get launch control for manuals? If not, then there is another disadvantage.
Quinny said:
George H said:
Can you get launch control for manuals? If not, then there is another disadvantage.
Yeah it's called CLUTCH CONTROLQuinny said:
Exactly.... Gimmicks and complicated electronics and systems and expense to do what any competent driver can do with his left leg....
It seems Some of the younger generation learnt to drive on a playstation... And they think it's the BEST way
I see your point Quinny, but 99.99% of supercar owners aren't going to have the skill of a racing driver.It seems Some of the younger generation learnt to drive on a playstation... And they think it's the BEST way
Since supercars are judged mainly by statistics, if launch control could save you 2 tenths of a second from 0-62, then it's clearly worth it.
Look at the Veyron. You or I could step into it, and take it to 250mph without much difficulty. Now imagine doing that in a Hennesy Venom GT, I know which one is more likely to kill me!
Do you turn the TC off in the Aston? I never have, I like the idea of having a safety net to fall back on.
George H said:
I see your point Quinny, but 99.99% of supercar owners aren't going to have the skill of a racing driver.
Since supercars are judged mainly by statistics, if launch control could save you 2 tenths of a second from 0-62, then it's clearly worth it.
Look at the Veyron. You or I could step into it, and take it to 250mph without much difficulty. Now imagine doing that in a Hennesy Venom GT, I know which one is more likely to kill me!
Do you turn the TC off in the Aston? I never have, I like the idea of having a safety net to fall back on.
If you have a look at the various postings on the "Venom GT" you would probably not get into one even for a straight line drive at 10mph....Since supercars are judged mainly by statistics, if launch control could save you 2 tenths of a second from 0-62, then it's clearly worth it.
Look at the Veyron. You or I could step into it, and take it to 250mph without much difficulty. Now imagine doing that in a Hennesy Venom GT, I know which one is more likely to kill me!
Do you turn the TC off in the Aston? I never have, I like the idea of having a safety net to fall back on.
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