Bamford Rose V8 Vantage Mods

[Broshnat]

So I visited Bamford Rose on Friday to find out more about their recently advertised performance exhaust and general performance mods.

I have a 56 plate V8 Vantage 4.3 and am considering my upgrade options. For about 25k I can jump to a three year old 4.7 Vantage and for around 60k I could get a two year old V12. I have test driven both in the last week and wanted to compare them to each other and what Bamford Rose can offer.

Mike spent around an hour with me, going over the various mod packages they offer and explaining what they can add to the performance. To summarise the options that interested me we have:

- 4.3 to 4.7 mod. New cylinder liners, new crank and new pistons increase the bore and stroke to 4.7l and increases power from 380 bhp to around 420 bhp.
- Modified head porting - this is apparently along a similar line to the Vanquish to Vanquish S mod and adds around 25bhp taking the total to around 445bhp.
- Sports exhaust system - new manifolds, sports cats. Liberates around another 25-30bph taking the total to around 475bhp.
- Lightweight flywheel and twin plate clutch - enormously improves the engine pickup (less intertia) and no chance of burning out the clutch with the twin plate.

Now all of these sound great on paper but the bottom line is how do they actually feel on the car? Mike took me out and let me have a go in a car with all of those mods and I have to say it feels like a totally different animal to my 4.3 V8. There is an instant throttle response, the engine picks up far more quickly and you can really feel the extra power and torque. It is still more revvy than a V12 - you won't have as much low down grunt, but once the engine really kicks in at 3000 revs I actually think it feels almost as fast as the V12. The engine just pulls and pulls to the redline and when you kick down the grunt is there again - it does feel like a standard V8 on steroids and has a much more urgent nature. Add to that the extra noise you get with the sports cats and better manifolds and in all you have a very impressive beast. The only issue I could see is that the brakes and potentially suspension start to feel like they are not quite up to the task - upgrading could start to become addictive!

I'm currently mulling over the whole thing and trying to weight up the prices for each stage and see how far I want to go, but I was genuinely suprised to see how different the same basic car can feel with some decent tweaks.

Does anyone else have any experience of these modifications or any others? I have yet to drive a Prodrive Vantage but I have a hard time seeing how it could get anywhere close...

Edited by Broshnat on Wednesday 21st September 00:15

[Highrisedrifter]

It may have even been this car you experienced. Unsure if Pommehogster's car is currently with BR.

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...

[Broshnat]

Yes, that's the one! Very impressive car...

[Rex Racer]

Broshnat said:

. . . upgrading could start to become addictive!

IMO, this is part of the problem when heading down the modding path. It's like if you change the carpet in your home, you then need to change the drapes. After changing the drapes, you may need to replace the furniture, etc., etc. By the time you're done, you could end up spending a small fortune on the upgrades.

The other part of the problem with modding is that, while the total you spend may be less than what you'd spend to get into a newer, unmodified car with similar performance (e.g., used V12), you will not likely recoup a lot of the money you spent when it comes time for resale. So, although there are initial costs to consider, you should also consider the value of your investment. Of course, there is value in the enjoyment of the modded car, and you need to decide what that is "worth" to you.

In view of all this, I decided a while back that I'll do moderate modifications (e.g., intake, exhaust), but I'd rather move up to the next level car than heavily mod a "lower" level car to pull it up to spec of the higher level car.

[yeti]

Rex Racer said:

The other part of the problem with modding is that, while the total you spend may be less than what you'd spend to get into a newer, unmodified car with similar performance (e.g., used V12), you will not likely recoup a lot of the money you spent when it comes time for resale. So, although there are initial costs to consider, you should also consider the value of your investment. Of course, there is value in the enjoyment of the modded car, and you need to decide what that is "worth" to you.

Whilst I agree that the maths on the Vantage conversion can be dodgy Versus the V12V, with the DB9 it makes perfect sense. My Volante = £50k + £30k mods = £80k owed to me. Cheapest DBS Volante is still around £120-130k, in often minging colours and they haven't budged moneywise. Plus mine is a manual too, no manual DBS Volantes out there.

So for my £80k I get a car that will out drag a DBS (when BR'd) and compete happily on handling (H&Rs, sports pack wheels, DBS rack, geometry), and braking (Granturismos). And arguably is prettier with a bespoke interior and a more useable car to drive. Yes it's 10% les stiff than a DBS Volante - I would never notice.

Buying at the bottom of the depreciation curve as I did also means that money lost in mods isn't money lost to depreciation. Softens the blow a little...

[Rex Racer]

yeti said:

Whilst I agree that the maths on the Vantage conversion can be dodgy Versus the V12V, with the DB9 it makes perfect sense. My Volante = £50k + £30k mods = £80k owed to me. Cheapest DBS Volante is still around £120-130k, in often minging colours and they haven't budged moneywise. Plus mine is a manual too, no manual DBS Volantes out there.

So for my £80k I get a car that will out drag a DBS (when BR'd) and compete happily on handling (H&Rs, sports pack wheels, DBS rack, geometry), and braking (Granturismos). And arguably is prettier with a bespoke interior and a more useable car to drive. Yes it's 10% les stiff than a DBS Volante - I would never notice.

Buying at the bottom of the depreciation curve as I did also means that money lost in mods isn't money lost to depreciation. Softens the blow a little...

You have a point re: the DB9 vs the DBS, although I'm still not sure it makes straight financial sense when all is said and done (I appreciate that there is more to mods than pure ROI).

Regardless, there's another thing to consider aside from money. When I think about it, if I modded a less expensive model to perform as well as the more expensive model, I think I'd always feel the need to defend my car or at least explain why it is "just as good as" the more expensive model. While I like to believe that I don't care what others think, the reality is that the great majority of us, including myself, do. If you have the DBS, every car person will instantly know and appreciate what it is. If you have a heavily modded DB9, however, you might feel an obligation to explain to those people why your car is not "just" a DB9. That would leave me feeling some level of dissatisfaction. Personally, if I couldn't afford the more expensive car, I'd probably just hold onto the £30k.

[v8vpaul]

Rex Racer said:

but I'd rather move up to the next level car than heavily mod a "lower" level car to pull it up to spec of the higher level car.

What you say in respect of the DB9 / DBS case is true - Those sat in DBS will have the 'kudos' whereas those in lower level car modified up to DBS spec simply will not. The same can be said for modifying pre Vantage 'S' V8's to equal or exceed actual Vantage 'S' performance. But this thread is talking about taking a very early V8 Vantage and exceeding the performance of the entry level 4.7 for less than the cost to trade up to that actual car, which, more or less look identical to each other, so the 'kudos' aspect you discuss doesn't apply.

The big factor from what I can see is that the BR modifications don't simply stop at replicating stock 4.7 performance, the BR mods even exceed Vantage 'S' by a significant amount, I have copied the 0-60 data from BR's sticky above.....

Aston Martin V8 Vantage 4.3L = 4.9 seconds

Aston Martin V8 Vantage 4.7L = 4.7 seconds

Aston Martin V8 Vantage 'S' = 4.5 seconds

Aston Martin V12 Vantage = 4.1 seconds

Aston Martin V8 Vantage 4.7L + Bamford Rose Sports exhaust manifolds and catalysts = 4.25 seconds

Aston Martin V8 Vantage 4.7L with Bamford Rose GT4 racing engine (project Jessica) + Sports exhaust manifolds and catalysts = 4.05 seconds..!!

Another reason why this mod makes sense is that to go with the engine power increases BR offer brakes and suspension improvements. So when the car ages and clutch, brakes and dampers all need replacing anyway, suddenly, instead of paying the high price for replacement Aston parts the improved BR parts are installed with the power mod as a complete package and then the whole package discussed here suddenly makes sense.

Broshnat; you are a lucky chap to drive Jessica - I wish I could...

[Broshnat]

I'm actually not sure it is as clear cut with the Vantage either.

For a 5 year old Vantage you'd be looking at a value of around 40k. Add maybe 30k of serious mods and you have a car on a similar level to a V12 - cheapest of which is currently 95k.

Now the V12 would be around 2 years old rather than 5 and limited to only 1000 so in some ways it seems like the far better choice but at the same time it does have further to drop. Looking ahead 3 years, I'm thinking the V12 would probably have dropeed to around the 65-70k mark (assuming it holds up well due to being collectable).

In the same 3 years, a standard V8 Vantage will probably be down to about 30k so the question is how much would the modified one be worth? Obviously not the 30k more that it cost to modify but it should be worth more as it is a better car than the standard V8 and if Bamford Rose can make this conversion a serious and accepted thing then buyers will see it more as a limited special edition than some poor aftermarket work. If it held at ~45k or so then you wouldn't actually be losing any more than you would have on the V12 and would have less money tied up in it. Also running costs and maintenance costs would probably be lower.

So I think financially, it is actually pretty even both ways.

[Rex Racer]

No argument from me that the BR performance increases aren't significant. I'm particularly impressed by the results you can get with the GT4 option, but how much does this all cost? I still don't see putting tens of thousands of pounds (or dollars in my case) into performance mods to chase after the performance levels of the more expensive car. As for modding an older car, I believe that when you go to sell you will more or less get an older car price and will only recoup a fraction of what you've spent on the mods. I'd rather pay more and get the newer (not necessarily new) car with the higher performance as standard, which will likely do better in a resale context. Just my opinion though. I could be wrong.

[Steve*B]

yeti said:

Whilst I agree that the maths on the Vantage conversion can be dodgy Versus the V12V, with the DB9 it makes perfect sense. My Volante = £50k + £30k mods = £80k owed to me. Cheapest DBS Volante is still around £120-130k, in often minging colours and they haven't budged moneywise. Plus mine is a manual too, no manual DBS Volantes out there.

So for my £80k I get a car that will out drag a DBS (when BR'd) and compete happily on handling (H&Rs, sports pack wheels, DBS rack, geometry), and braking (Granturismos). And arguably is prettier with a bespoke interior and a more useable car to drive. Yes it's 10% les stiff than a DBS Volante - I would never notice.

Buying at the bottom of the depreciation curve as I did also means that money lost in mods isn't money lost to depreciation. Softens the blow a little...

I'm not convinced by any part of that argument....sorry Lewis. It's a DB9 with some expensive bolt-ons to make it look like it's something that it isn't (isn't that sacrilege in geology terms?). It's well known that adding 'options' to any car is unlikely to be repaid come selling time (something I was well aware of when I added the best part of £20k in the official upgrades/options for the V8V - but it's a keeper) but do buyers of second hand Astons really want a 'confused' DB9? Possibly, but I'm guessing that the market for such a thing is limited. All in my opinion of course.

By the way, I thought that your DB7 was sheer class.

[v8vpaul]

Broshnat said:

Now all of these sound great on paper but the bottom line is how do they actually feel on the car? Mike took me out and let me have a go in a car with all of those mods and I have to say it feels like a totally different animal to my 4.3 V8.

Hi Broshnat.

Can you elaborate on your experience of your test drive and discuss how the improvements felt in terms of quality of installation fit / feel, how it drove generally (whilst on the pace or just cruising), did it feel like a modified car - was their any 'unwanted' evidence of the extensive work carried out?

[yeti]

Steve*B said:

I'm not convinced by any part of that argument....sorry Lewis. It's a DB9 with some expensive bolt-ons to make it look like it's something that it isn't (isn't that sacrilege in geology terms?). It's well known that adding 'options' to any car is unlikely to be repaid come selling time (something I was well aware of when I added the best part of £20k in the official upgrades/options for the V8V - but it's a keeper) but do buyers of second hand Astons really want a 'confused' DB9? Possibly, but I'm guessing that the market for such a thing is limited. All in my opinion of course.

By the way, I thought that your DB7 was sheer class.

Thanks for the DB7 comment - Mark is a lucky man, was good to see it again at Hever!

It's not an argument per se, the car isn't for sale or likely to be at any point in the near future. I'm not pretending it's a DBS or even trying to make it look like one (bonnet aside, the least obvious panel I think) I have a DB9 Volante with manual box in Chiltern Green, a very rare car and one which I searched for for 2 years. Whether the DBS existed or not, I would want my own car to be faster, handle better, sound better, brake better and look better than standard.

I believe cars are built to a price point and there is always room for improvement. That is my opinion and I have always done it with my own cars and always will Those who buy cars from me always end up with a vastly better car than standard; is there a limited market - probably, but there would be anyway for a manual green DB9 Volante!

You might be confusing geology with archaeology as well

Anyway... I'm off to the Alps to test my new brakes out, see y'all on Tuesday!

[Steve*B]

yeti said:

You might be confusing geology with archaeology as well

Not at all, my wife has a definite aversion to fake rocks

Have a good trip.

[craigjm]

Before you go down the modified route do some research as to the demand for the results. Quite a lot of modified cars are really hard to sell on at a later date if the modifications cannot be removed prior to sale.

[Jockman]

Methinks people may be missing the point.

Yeti loves his car.

Yeti loves to adapt his car.

Yeti wakes up in the morning and thinks of new areas in his car to explore.

Yeti isn't a slave to resale values.

Yeti is a pioneer.

Yeti is an innovator.

Yeti keeps Rick in business.

Yeti is a nice bloke.

[craigjm]

That may be so but unless he has bottomless pockets he might want to think about resale

[Jockman]

craigjm said:

That may be so but unless he has bottomless pockets he might want to think about resale

Judging by his comments about his period in the oil industry (?) I fear the former may be applicable Craig

[craigjm]

Maybe and in which case we have all contributed to that so maybe we should all get a day in his car when converted FOC

[Jockman]

I fear again that he may well tell us to F.O.C. off

[George H]

Jockman said:

Judging by his comments about his period in the oil industry (?) I fear the former may be applicable Craig

If it's anything like the people I know in the oil industry get paid, you may well be right Jockman

And 6 months holiday a year. And usually very little tax (if any) paid.

I fear I may have made the wrong choice with my career!