The Dreaded DB9 Engine Tick!

[paulrog1]

Sorry, I've no further info on this, this was all i was told.

[Calinours]

paulrog1 said:

Sorry, I've no further info on this, this was all i was told.

ahhh, what a shame. So again it’s just more ‘words’ on the internet. “I once read that…”

[Astontony]

V8V Pete said:

"Tick" and cat ingestion are two totally different issues that are both real and affect the V12 engines with frequencies that are basically impossible to estimate accurately. Not related to each other in any way as far as I know. The concern that Richard (Gbox) raises is that the tick could affect any iteration of the V12 engine, not just the early versions before the oiling of the small end bearing was modified.

What year was the small end bearing oil feed modified?

[paulrog1]

The small end bush was modified in 2008, plus i believe a piston redesign, possibly explains why the glass key cars are not affected.

[paulrog1]

Calinours said:

ahhh, what a shame. So again it’s just more ‘words’ on the internet. “I once read that…”

This story was not read off the internet but a discussion at a inde car garage, the Vanquish ended up with him and he repaired it, I don't know any other details.

[bullet7]

Not sure what part of the world you are in but if you are anywhere near Devon, I will give you a hand with the spannering if it helps.

[Alickadoo]

bullet7 said:

Not sure what part of the world you are in but if you are anywhere near Devon, I will give you a hand with the spannering if it helps.

It's in his profile.

[Simpo Two]

Calinours said:

paulrog1 said:

Cat ingestion does happen, listening to some stories from owners and garages, the one i heard recently a Gaydon Vanquish owner took his car with some friends around europe and really drove it hard, he serviced it just before going at works service, part the way through the tour the car started spitting out parts of cat, his friend in the car behind him noticed material coming out of his exhaust, he pulled the car over and told his mate the car was losing power. The car was recovered back to the uk and the engine was compression tested and one whole bank had lost all compression and the other bank was down, replacement engine required.

This has to be one of the clearest (though related second hand) stories confirming cat ingestion as an issue that I’ve heard in here. It references one of the most modern iterations of the V12 (Vanq), a pre health check, some hard use, evidence of debris out the exhaust, reported loss of power, recovery and confirmation of loss of compression. All needed would be evidence of catalyst material recovered from engine internals during stripdown - then that would be the most clear and independent example that the issue is ‘real’ that most would need.

Are we saying that if, at the pre-tour service they'd checked for misfires and replaced any offending coilpacks/plugs, the ingestion would not have happened?

[bullet7]

Alickadoo said:

bullet7 said:

Not sure what part of the world you are in but if you are anywhere near Devon, I will give you a hand with the spannering if it helps.

It's in his profile.

Thanks

[bullet7]

Alickadoo said:

bullet7 said:

Not sure what part of the world you are in but if you are anywhere near Devon, I will give you a hand with the spannering if it helps.

It's in his profile.

Thanks

[Astontony]

paulrog1 said:

The small end bush was modified in 2008, plus i believe a piston redesign, possibly explains why the glass key cars are not affected.

Thanks Paulfrog. I hope the repairs go well and the $$ spent are not too onourous.

[Jon39]

paulrog1 said:

The small end bush was modified in 2008, plus i believe a piston redesign, possibly explains why the glass key cars are not affected.

Me trying to apply logic again.

The earlier explanation was about combustion gasses getting behind the liner and the liner eventually moving down slghtly.
There was reference to Prodrive modifying something, to eliminate this on their race cars.

This would therefore appear to be an additional cause of the tick problem, and unrelated to small end bush design..

[LTP]

Jon39 said:

Me trying to apply logic again.

The earlier explanation was about combustion gasses getting behind the liner and the liner eventually moving down slghtly.
There was reference to Prodrive modifying something, to eliminate this on their race cars.

This would therefore appear to be an additional cause of the tick problem, and unrelated to small end bush design..

Not quite. The explanation I read/heard (can't recall which) was that the bore becomes oval from the products of combustion getting behind the liner and distorting the liner (this out-of-round was greater than the difference between the min and max piston size) also increased the load on the small end bush as the piston was no longer constrained correctly and "rocked" at TDC.

I have no idea how accurate it is, but it does make the connection (excuse the inadvertent pun)

[Jon39]

quote=Jon39]

paulrog1 said:

The small end bush was modified in 2008, plus i believe a piston redesign, possibly explains why the glass key cars are not affected.

LTP said:

Jon39 said:

Me trying to apply logic again.

The earlier explanation was about combustion gasses getting behind the liner and the liner eventually moving down slghtly.
There was reference to Prodrive modifying something, to eliminate this on their race cars.

This would therefore appear to be an additional cause of the tick problem, and unrelated to small end bush design..

Not quite. The explanation I read/heard (can't recall which) was that the bore becomes oval from the products of combustion getting behind the liner and distorting the liner (this out-of-round was greater than the difference between the min and max piston size) also increased the load on the small end bush as the piston was no longer constrained correctly and "rocked" at TDC.

I have no idea how accurate it is, but it does make the connection (excuse the inadvertent pun)

The point that I was attempting to make, was that the suggestion of the pre-Glass Key manufacturing modification to the small end bush and possibly pistons, might have resolved those causes, but the combustion gas/distorted liner suggestion, perhaps continued as another cause after the Glass Key change.

It would of course be reassuring to owners, if AML made a technical statement about this matter, but they won't, because of being scared about possible liability.

No one seems to admit mistakes any more and when backed into a corner, try blaming others for what happened, then eventually resign moments before being sacked.

Edited by Jon39 on Friday 16th February 10:45

[Stick Legs]

Wasn’t there something about Cosworth made engines pre-AM01xxxx.

I recall that the engine number changed from AM00 to AM01. This was early 2006.

If I remember correctly it was suggest the early engines were more prone to ‘Tick’.

Or has experience re-written this theory?

[paulrog1]

So I've had a chat with a few people and I've decided to remove the engine in my garage, put it in the back of my van and get it reconditioned.

There were a few options I considered, - take the engine out at home and either have it reconditioned or get a secondhand one from a breakers yard, - drive it to a garage and let them do it all or just sell the car for whatever I can get.

Thinking about the options, I can't sell her and I don't have a huge amount of money to spend so that's the decision I've made.

So the only way you can remove the engine is to install a 2 post ramp in the garage, separate the body from the chassis/drivetrain, then construct a wheeled trolley which can separate in two and able to pull the engine/drivetrain out of the garage, separate the torque tube from the engine and then using an engine hoist to lift the engine out of the front subframe and put the engine into a van,

Look at GB9 garage on youtube, this is roughly what I'll be doing.

A huge job, so I'm taking it in little steps and taking my time, probably won't start it until the middle of the year as I've got a few things on at the mo.

Probably I'll start a new topic when the job starts.

Edited by paulrog1 on Sunday 18th February 14:18

[Stick Legs]

paulrog1 said:

So I've had a chat with a few people and I've decided to remove the engine in my garage, put it in the back of my van and get it reconditioned.

There were a few options I considered, - take the engine out at home and either have it reconditioned or get a secondhand one from a breakers yard, - drive it to a garage and let them do it all or just sell the car for whatever I can get.

Thinking about the options, I can't sell her and I don't have a huge amount of money to spend so that's the decision I've made.

So the only way you can remove the engine is to install a 2 post ramp in your garage, separate the body from the chassis/drivetrain, then construct a wheeled trolley which can separate in two and able to pull the engine/drivetrain out of the garage, separate the torque tube from the engine and then using an engine hoist to lift the engine out of the front subframe and put the engine into a van,

Look at GB9 garage on youtube, this is roughly what I'll be doing.

A huge job, so I'm taking it in little steps and taking my time, probably won't start it until the middle of the year as I've got a few things on at the mo.

Probably I'll start a new topic when the job starts.

Good luck & if you can please post pics in Readers Cars as it would be an epic job.

[macdeb]

Stick Legs said:

paulrog1 said:

So I've had a chat with a few people and I've decided to remove the engine in my garage, put it in the back of my van and get it reconditioned.

There were a few options I considered, - take the engine out at home and either have it reconditioned or get a secondhand one from a breakers yard, - drive it to a garage and let them do it all or just sell the car for whatever I can get.

Thinking about the options, I can't sell her and I don't have a huge amount of money to spend so that's the decision I've made.

So the only way you can remove the engine is to install a 2 post ramp in your garage, separate the body from the chassis/drivetrain, then construct a wheeled trolley which can separate in two and able to pull the engine/drivetrain out of the garage, separate the torque tube from the engine and then using an engine hoist to lift the engine out of the front subframe and put the engine into a van,

Look at GB9 garage on youtube, this is roughly what I'll be doing.

A huge job, so I'm taking it in little steps and taking my time, probably won't start it until the middle of the year as I've got a few things on at the mo.

Probably I'll start a new topic when the job starts.

Good luck & if you can please post pics in Readers Cars as it would be an epic job.

Well, I'd probably do same in same position, I couldn't sell a lemon passing on by bad luck so good for you. Some of us need to sleep at night. Please keep us all posted on progress or complications as I'm sure you will get a lot of support here.

[David W.]

paulrog1 said:

So I've had a chat with a few people and I've decided to remove the engine in my garage, put it in the back of my van and get it reconditioned.

So the only way you can remove the engine is to install a 2 post ramp in the garage, separate the body from the chassis/drivetrain, then construct a wheeled trolley which can separate in two and able to pull the engine/drivetrain out of the garage, separate the torque tube from the engine and then using an engine hoist to lift the engine out of the front subframe and put the engine into a van,

Edited by paulrog1 on Sunday 18th February 14:18

I’m sure you know but a 2 post lift needs to be secured in a substantial thickness of concrete.
Good luck with the project.

[AstonKeeper]

Good luck! Looking forward to seeing this project. I have also seen it done with a scissor lift and wheeled engine table as you say. I've heard great things about the Hartech rebuilt engines and we will most likely use them soon enough.