Autocar - "Best handling car" shock horror
Discussion
Some of you lot might like to know that the T350C and Noble have traded blows and have jostled for better figures in the five measured areas
The T350 sneaks (by the narrowest of margins) ahead 3 vs 2, and so for all intent and purposes very closly matched, although interestingly the T350 was "dropped" from the final list due to it's "edgy" handling, whilst the M12 made it through.
Well worth a read if you are interested.
All you T350 owners out there can now look suitably smug
J
>>> Edited by joust on Wednesday 27th August 10:29
The T350 sneaks (by the narrowest of margins) ahead 3 vs 2, and so for all intent and purposes very closly matched, although interestingly the T350 was "dropped" from the final list due to it's "edgy" handling, whilst the M12 made it through.
Well worth a read if you are interested.
All you T350 owners out there can now look suitably smug
J
>>> Edited by joust on Wednesday 27th August 10:29
I posted recently after taking my T350 (400bhp) to Oulton park on a track day. As I said it was quicker than all the cars there down the straights including a Tuscan a Noble a Ferrari 355 and a Caterham R400 and only outcornered by the Caterham and a Radical.
This is the quickest and best handling TVR I have had but I can understand some of the comments in the article, I would think the driver in the Noble I passed was enjoying it more than me I always felt a bit nervous and was glad to finish the day unscathed!
This is the quickest and best handling TVR I have had but I can understand some of the comments in the article, I would think the driver in the Noble I passed was enjoying it more than me I always felt a bit nervous and was glad to finish the day unscathed!
barefoot said:Interesting Kevin.
This is the quickest and best handling TVR I have had but I can understand some of the comments in the article, I would think the driver in the Noble I passed was enjoying it more than me I always felt a bit nervous and was glad to finish the day unscathed!
I've never driven a T350 (I've driven a Tamora but not 'pushed' it) and so can't comment, but is that a general feeling that it's a "snappy" car? If that's the case then one would have thought changing some of the suspension rates would improve things?
Does the T350 have adjustable suspension as standard?
J
Joust
Not snappy as such but does need to be driven with respect as do all TVR's. As you will know Oulton is a fast circuit and this was an advantage for my car as it was so much quicker than anything else on the straights, but once its limits are reached it is forgiving but I would prefer to find it's limits at somewhere like Elvinton than Oulton. On the day a 911 was completely written off. My car locked its front brakes to easily and my oil temp got to warm after 5 or 6 laps.
I had my Westfield Megabusa there as well which to be honest is so much more fun as I am sure your Elise must be. To be honest my biggest surprise was just how bloody quick my car is. Compared to my RR Tuscan the power is more linear and just gets stronger and stronger till the cut out at nearly 8,000 rpm.
Initially I thought my Tuscan was as quick but I now know this is definitely the fastest car I have owned and easily the best TVR for getting its power down without vicious wheelspining. Some might argue but I also think this is the best engine TVR have made to date.
The car goes in for it's 6,000 mile service at the factory on Monday with a short list of faults so as you can tell I am very happy with it!
Not snappy as such but does need to be driven with respect as do all TVR's. As you will know Oulton is a fast circuit and this was an advantage for my car as it was so much quicker than anything else on the straights, but once its limits are reached it is forgiving but I would prefer to find it's limits at somewhere like Elvinton than Oulton. On the day a 911 was completely written off. My car locked its front brakes to easily and my oil temp got to warm after 5 or 6 laps.
I had my Westfield Megabusa there as well which to be honest is so much more fun as I am sure your Elise must be. To be honest my biggest surprise was just how bloody quick my car is. Compared to my RR Tuscan the power is more linear and just gets stronger and stronger till the cut out at nearly 8,000 rpm.
Initially I thought my Tuscan was as quick but I now know this is definitely the fastest car I have owned and easily the best TVR for getting its power down without vicious wheelspining. Some might argue but I also think this is the best engine TVR have made to date.
The car goes in for it's 6,000 mile service at the factory on Monday with a short list of faults so as you can tell I am very happy with it!
I've just sent this to Autocar. Do you think they'll print it?
This time I really have had a bellyful of your double standards. In your best handling car story, you preferred the Porsche 911 GT3 over the TVR T350 despite the fact that the TVR was faster on "a circuit that [in your words] doesn't favour grip and grunt over balance and poise". Your reason for not sending the TVR through to the finals - "the concentration required was just too great." For heaven's sake, Chris Harris doesn't even mention that it was the fastest proper road car there - and a lot cheaper than most! However, in the case of the 911, "the standard of car control required to hustle the thing as its nervous rear end spiked a line round the lap was considerable." You even described it as "potentially dangerous."
Then when the Boxster set a really bad time, its smoky unreliability was excused and you even tried to imply that it might have contributed to its snail-like pace (which was only a second off the equally sluggish Z4!)
I don't think I'll bother buying Autocar any more.
P.S. You almost managed to ignore the Tuscan S's awesome performance at the 0-100-0 the other week. As a proud Tuscan owner, I don't find 0-100 in 8.08 seconds "scarcely believable" at all!
This time I really have had a bellyful of your double standards. In your best handling car story, you preferred the Porsche 911 GT3 over the TVR T350 despite the fact that the TVR was faster on "a circuit that [in your words] doesn't favour grip and grunt over balance and poise". Your reason for not sending the TVR through to the finals - "the concentration required was just too great." For heaven's sake, Chris Harris doesn't even mention that it was the fastest proper road car there - and a lot cheaper than most! However, in the case of the 911, "the standard of car control required to hustle the thing as its nervous rear end spiked a line round the lap was considerable." You even described it as "potentially dangerous."
Then when the Boxster set a really bad time, its smoky unreliability was excused and you even tried to imply that it might have contributed to its snail-like pace (which was only a second off the equally sluggish Z4!)
I don't think I'll bother buying Autocar any more.
P.S. You almost managed to ignore the Tuscan S's awesome performance at the 0-100-0 the other week. As a proud Tuscan owner, I don't find 0-100 in 8.08 seconds "scarcely believable" at all!
IanP - Spot on mate. I too was astonished that the T350C could lap so well and then barely get any recognition for it! What do TVR have to do to get an unconditional thumbs up from the motoring press?! The car is supposed to be driven and require concentration. As you say the Porsche doesn't suffer for it's requiring driver ability. Maybe if the little TVR cost £90K+ and was made in Italy or Germany it'd get a better write up!
I do agree with Tiff Needell re Noble gearshift and brake pedal travel though.
Washy
I do agree with Tiff Needell re Noble gearshift and brake pedal travel though.
Washy
I had to double take the article after I read a few comments here before hand. The 350 was the fastest "real" road car there - only the Atom and the JP1 were faster. And what was slower ? How about GT3, R400, Elise 135R, XTR2, Merkylager, Zonda (!) and so on.
What do TVR have to do ?
Well I'm impressed anyway.
Equally unimpressed again by the Boxster which looked like it had cooked a clutch again (remember Drivel when they got through two) ?
Interesting to ask the question of all these professional drivers which order they would pick the keys up in if they had to race the car around the circuit.
What do TVR have to do ?
Well I'm impressed anyway.
Equally unimpressed again by the Boxster which looked like it had cooked a clutch again (remember Drivel when they got through two) ?
Interesting to ask the question of all these professional drivers which order they would pick the keys up in if they had to race the car around the circuit.
I skimed thru the article earlier today & noticed the double standards with the Caterham R400. In it's group it was described as nervous & intimidating (IIRC) with the quote "it spent most of the day in the pits" (again IIRC) - yet it got thru to the final where almost the complete opposite was written about it! WTF!
Mighty impresive performances from the T350 & the Atom
Mighty impresive performances from the T350 & the Atom
Isn't it Autocar that makes a habit of pissing off Peter Wheeler, as a result of which they never get press demo cars?
This article should mean no TVRs to try for the next 150 years!
Well done to the Noble, and the T350.
It seems unbelievable that the fastest real world car around a handling circuit cannot get into the final of a handling test. It's absolute crap - I wonder what Justin Wilson's opinion was?
Great letter, IanP - I had a similar letter printed a year or so ago, when they were on about 200mph supercars, and ommitted to manetion the TuscanR (as it was then), despite having a two page spread about it in the same magazine! They never did answer my question as toi WHY the TuscanR should not be included - I suspect price and origin had a lot to do with it....
This article should mean no TVRs to try for the next 150 years!
Well done to the Noble, and the T350.
It seems unbelievable that the fastest real world car around a handling circuit cannot get into the final of a handling test. It's absolute crap - I wonder what Justin Wilson's opinion was?
Great letter, IanP - I had a similar letter printed a year or so ago, when they were on about 200mph supercars, and ommitted to manetion the TuscanR (as it was then), despite having a two page spread about it in the same magazine! They never did answer my question as toi WHY the TuscanR should not be included - I suspect price and origin had a lot to do with it....
So Autocar think its a bit of the handful on the limit, whilst still posting the 3rd fastest lap time, only beaten by purer lighter track cars. And nearly a second a lap quicker than the next fastest actual road car (GT3)
I can't understand it, they could aford to back off half a second a lap, keep it a bit tidier, and still beat all the other road cars there (and thats being generous calling a caterham R400, westfield XTR2, Radical a road car- track cars really these cars over 2 seconds a lap slower as well).
3 seconds a lap quicker than zonda/lambo
4 seconds a lap quicker than evo Fq300/impreza type c.
And Autocar hardly acknowledge this!!!!!!!!!?????????
Good result for the noble -think this car has a bit more oomph on the way soon.
B
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Sunday 31st August 14:28
I can't understand it, they could aford to back off half a second a lap, keep it a bit tidier, and still beat all the other road cars there (and thats being generous calling a caterham R400, westfield XTR2, Radical a road car- track cars really these cars over 2 seconds a lap slower as well).
3 seconds a lap quicker than zonda/lambo
4 seconds a lap quicker than evo Fq300/impreza type c.
And Autocar hardly acknowledge this!!!!!!!!!?????????
Good result for the noble -think this car has a bit more oomph on the way soon.
B
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Sunday 31st August 14:28
What a load of tosh! Just read this tonight - an independent British car manufacturer, who produce cars that can outperform ALL other 'real' road cars. And for a fraction of the price. Is there no sense of national pride in the British Press?
BTW think it might have been CAR Magazine that fell out with PW.
Well done TVR anyway
Dan P
BTW think it might have been CAR Magazine that fell out with PW.
Well done TVR anyway
Dan P
IanP said:
I've just sent this to Autocar. Do you think they'll print it?
Well they didn't, although to be fair they did print a letter proclaiming how great they were for choosing the MX-5 and how credit must go to Autocar for "its objective and even-handed assessment of every car".....hmmmmmm!
I know I'll get flamed for this but......there was something very suspect about the lap times they published. I can not believe that an Elise 135 (or what ever it's called) would be anywhere near as fast as an R400 on either an twisty or power circuit.
Similarly I find it hard to believe that a T350C would be faster than a Zonda on a power circuit, or faster than a GT3 on a twisty one. Something very suspect there.
So consequently as I don't believe the times I don't believe there should be a direct correlation between these times and the 'winner'.
Having said that I do believe the final result (MX5) was a total joke (any correlation between giving the winner away and the MX5 being the cheapest, no surely not!).
Similarly I find it hard to believe that a T350C would be faster than a Zonda on a power circuit, or faster than a GT3 on a twisty one. Something very suspect there.
So consequently as I don't believe the times I don't believe there should be a direct correlation between these times and the 'winner'.
Having said that I do believe the final result (MX5) was a total joke (any correlation between giving the winner away and the MX5 being the cheapest, no surely not!).
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