From a Griff or Chim to a Tamora
Discussion
Has anybody upgraded from a Griff or a Chim to a Tamora? And if so, is it something you would recommend - I've been looking for a secondhand 5.0 Chim or Griff to use everyday up to around £25k and am beginning to realise that for a bit extra I can have all the new ride and handling attributes of a nearly new Tamora (having said that I still prefer the classic looks of the Griff or Chim).
I went from a 4.0l Chimaera to a Tamora. The sheer speed of the Tamora is the first thing that stands out - I know that, on paper a 5.0l car looks similar in pace, but it doesn't really have the same jaw-dropping acceleration right through the rev range. In gear acceleration is phenomenal!
The handling is one of the main reasons I swapped, as well as the extra power. It is a go-kart compared to my Chimaera. The speed you can carry through corners, the body control and grip are light years ahead of the V8 cars. (BTW - this is not a criticism of V8 cars, before anyone starts, just answering the question, o.k?)
The hood is much better, as it folds much lower so reaward visibility is much better. The mirrors are a delight compared to the nasty Citroen jobbies on the Chimaera. The interior is lovely, and the instrument pack is superb. It actually has a proper glovebox!!
Interior space is much better, especially for the passenger.
Downsides? No V8 rumble, but a modified exhaust soon brings a new sound out. The speed six is well sorted now - mine has been spot on except for the valve gaps opening up, and these were re-shimmed under warranty. Looks are a personal thing - but it is a great car from most angles, and much more handsome in real life than in photos. The roof is a bit tight when getting it into the boot, but probably not as bad as the Griff.
If you can do it, get one - you might regret the loss of V8 noise, but that's about all.
>> Edited by nubbin (moderator) on Saturday 31st May 11:55
The handling is one of the main reasons I swapped, as well as the extra power. It is a go-kart compared to my Chimaera. The speed you can carry through corners, the body control and grip are light years ahead of the V8 cars. (BTW - this is not a criticism of V8 cars, before anyone starts, just answering the question, o.k?)
The hood is much better, as it folds much lower so reaward visibility is much better. The mirrors are a delight compared to the nasty Citroen jobbies on the Chimaera. The interior is lovely, and the instrument pack is superb. It actually has a proper glovebox!!
Interior space is much better, especially for the passenger.
Downsides? No V8 rumble, but a modified exhaust soon brings a new sound out. The speed six is well sorted now - mine has been spot on except for the valve gaps opening up, and these were re-shimmed under warranty. Looks are a personal thing - but it is a great car from most angles, and much more handsome in real life than in photos. The roof is a bit tight when getting it into the boot, but probably not as bad as the Griff.
If you can do it, get one - you might regret the loss of V8 noise, but that's about all.
>> Edited by nubbin (moderator) on Saturday 31st May 11:55
This is my opinion and advice given honestly and sincerely - not to annoy current Tamora owners. Okay!
It depends on what your ownership timescale and expectations are - BUT.
IMO A good Griffith will always be a classic icon with classic 'muscle car' appeal and lower depreciation. The Tamora is a fantastic machine but I believe it will fade quickly (already has been eclipsed by T350C to some extent). It's looks are still a bit dubious despite some good metallics - I blame TVR for releasing early Press cars in awful colour combinations.
Depreciation will/has already taken it's toll and the Speed Six is obviously always going to be a high maintenance problem. Even if the engine problems are subsequently resolved it will always suffer from reputation - give a dog a bad name!
This is obviously just my opinion but current indications are that if you go for a Tamora you could either have to keep it for a long time or take a hiding to change it in a few years time.
I know all you Tamora owners will be fuming at me - witness past topics - but I am a TVR enthusiast who currently has a Griffith - and as such I and my like are potential buyers for second-hand Tamoras/Tuscans. I know I would not at present consider buying one and others if they weren't afraid of being lambasted would say the same.
My advice is stick with a Griffith, looks the dog's whatsits, sounds fantastic and, if driven well, will stick on any Tamora's (not so pretty) tail.
Performance and handling may be marginally better (not Light Years) but is that really so important.
IMO There's more to TVR life than a few tenths of a second.
It depends on what your ownership timescale and expectations are - BUT.
IMO A good Griffith will always be a classic icon with classic 'muscle car' appeal and lower depreciation. The Tamora is a fantastic machine but I believe it will fade quickly (already has been eclipsed by T350C to some extent). It's looks are still a bit dubious despite some good metallics - I blame TVR for releasing early Press cars in awful colour combinations.
Depreciation will/has already taken it's toll and the Speed Six is obviously always going to be a high maintenance problem. Even if the engine problems are subsequently resolved it will always suffer from reputation - give a dog a bad name!
This is obviously just my opinion but current indications are that if you go for a Tamora you could either have to keep it for a long time or take a hiding to change it in a few years time.
I know all you Tamora owners will be fuming at me - witness past topics - but I am a TVR enthusiast who currently has a Griffith - and as such I and my like are potential buyers for second-hand Tamoras/Tuscans. I know I would not at present consider buying one and others if they weren't afraid of being lambasted would say the same.
My advice is stick with a Griffith, looks the dog's whatsits, sounds fantastic and, if driven well, will stick on any Tamora's (not so pretty) tail.
Performance and handling may be marginally better (not Light Years) but is that really so important.
IMO There's more to TVR life than a few tenths of a second.
jigs, no offence taken, this is a free forum. You are a Griffith enthusiast, which is why you feel the way you do.However, try driving a Tamora before you express your feelings - otherwise you cannot give a decent opinion on the subject. Most of what you say is based on speculation and second hand gossip, not fact.
I have been up against several Griffs, Chimaeras, and also standard Tuscans, on track days, and the painful truth (for you, at least) is that a well-driven Griff does not have either the straight line pace, nor the handling even to smell the Tamoras' exhaust fumes from a distance, never mind stick with it. I've been there, done that, and until you have driven a speed six car, you simply don't know what you're talking about.
>> Edited by nubbin (moderator) on Saturday 31st May 18:00
I have been up against several Griffs, Chimaeras, and also standard Tuscans, on track days, and the painful truth (for you, at least) is that a well-driven Griff does not have either the straight line pace, nor the handling even to smell the Tamoras' exhaust fumes from a distance, never mind stick with it. I've been there, done that, and until you have driven a speed six car, you simply don't know what you're talking about.
>> Edited by nubbin (moderator) on Saturday 31st May 18:00
I have to agree with Nubbin.. I've raced them all and eventually had to buy a Tamora.. on the basis of.. if you can't beat them join them.. love all TVRs but the Tamoras performance is shattering and it does look up to date too. This is one TVR.. that can actually mix it with the best out there.. and thats not just in a straight line..
Sorry nubbin and Nick Beef you have obviously missed not just my points but I believe you have also missed mdrc's points. Let me explain:-
Firstly,
I stated that the Tamora was a 'fantastic machine' and stated that it's 'performance and handling may be marginally better' but I questioned whether in everyday driving 'a few tenths of a second' really mattered. Check the road tests because that's the real-life difference in the 500 and a Tamora.
My views are not based on 'speculation and secondhand gossip' but 35 years of real life driving in all sorts of sports cars from Austin Healeys to Ferraris and including most TVRs. (I've restored most of them as well in my time.)
Secondly,
I simply responded in a helpful manner to mdrc's dilemna which referred to everyday real-life driving (not track days or racing) and whether the undoubted improved handling and performance of the Tamora would justify departing from his expressed preference for the Griff/Chim 500.
I advised that for reasons such as everyday reliability, depreciation and sheer classic status he should probably stay with the Griff/Chim 500.
You should re-read the topic in which mdrc said he was 'looking for a secondhand 5.0 Chim or Griff to use everyday ---' and that he still 'prefers the classic looks of the Griff or Chim'. He also wondered about the 'ride and handling attributes of a nearly new Tamora'.
He wasn't talking about 'track days' (nubbin) or 'racing' (Beef).
Apologies if I trod on your egos which appear to be so inextricably bonded to your self-images of being the fastest boy-racers on the block.
PS I knew some of you wouldn't like my views in my original contribution and I'm sure you'll like this response even less - but do you know I don't really care! I believe in free speech and live and let live. Try not to take it personally when someone disagrees with you - try listening you might just learn something new.
>> Edited by jigs on Saturday 31st May 20:48
>> Edited by jigs on Saturday 31st May 20:50
Firstly,
I stated that the Tamora was a 'fantastic machine' and stated that it's 'performance and handling may be marginally better' but I questioned whether in everyday driving 'a few tenths of a second' really mattered. Check the road tests because that's the real-life difference in the 500 and a Tamora.
My views are not based on 'speculation and secondhand gossip' but 35 years of real life driving in all sorts of sports cars from Austin Healeys to Ferraris and including most TVRs. (I've restored most of them as well in my time.)
Secondly,
I simply responded in a helpful manner to mdrc's dilemna which referred to everyday real-life driving (not track days or racing) and whether the undoubted improved handling and performance of the Tamora would justify departing from his expressed preference for the Griff/Chim 500.
I advised that for reasons such as everyday reliability, depreciation and sheer classic status he should probably stay with the Griff/Chim 500.
You should re-read the topic in which mdrc said he was 'looking for a secondhand 5.0 Chim or Griff to use everyday ---' and that he still 'prefers the classic looks of the Griff or Chim'. He also wondered about the 'ride and handling attributes of a nearly new Tamora'.
He wasn't talking about 'track days' (nubbin) or 'racing' (Beef).
Apologies if I trod on your egos which appear to be so inextricably bonded to your self-images of being the fastest boy-racers on the block.
PS I knew some of you wouldn't like my views in my original contribution and I'm sure you'll like this response even less - but do you know I don't really care! I believe in free speech and live and let live. Try not to take it personally when someone disagrees with you - try listening you might just learn something new.
>> Edited by jigs on Saturday 31st May 20:48
>> Edited by jigs on Saturday 31st May 20:50
Have you driven a Tamora, jigs? Yes or no?
If not, then you have no valid opinion on the comparison, which, as YOU have obviously missed, is actually mdrc's question.
Let me explain in small words, so your smug little mind can understand. mdrc wants to know, from people who have driven a Griff or Chimaera, how the driving experience compares with a TVR Tamora. Now do you get it?
If you want to stand and look at a Griff, fine.
If you hope that a Griff will appreciate in value, becauses you have given it "classic" status, fine.
If you want to drive a car, that, IN THE REAL WORLD, (not on a track, not in a race) is faster, handles better than a Griffmaera, then there are two responses here that are given in the light of having driven both types of car. That makes those responses more valid than yours, unless of course you forgot to tell us that you have driven a Tamora.
Now, you may think that you are being really smart and clever with all your oh-so-humourous, off-the-wall comments on these fora, but actually, you sound like an anally retentive, self-satisfied tosspot. Validate your arguments with something other than your personal beliefs and second hand opinion, and I will respect those opinions, otherwise just shut the **** up.
Edited to say:- look at my previous post - does it, or does it not start with the phrase "jigs, no offence taken"? What is it about that phrase that you don't understand, which allows you to make the offensive statement "Apologies if I trod on your egos which appear to be so inextricably bonded to your self-images of being the fastest boy-racers on the block".
I would suggest you examine your own ego - "35 years of driving"...."evertything from Austin Healeys to Ferraris".... "I've restored most of them as well in my time"....
Hmmm, ego trip or what, as with most of your other pathetic humourless contributions.
>> Edited by nubbin (moderator) on Saturday 31st May 21:36
If not, then you have no valid opinion on the comparison, which, as YOU have obviously missed, is actually mdrc's question.
Let me explain in small words, so your smug little mind can understand. mdrc wants to know, from people who have driven a Griff or Chimaera, how the driving experience compares with a TVR Tamora. Now do you get it?
If you want to stand and look at a Griff, fine.
If you hope that a Griff will appreciate in value, becauses you have given it "classic" status, fine.
If you want to drive a car, that, IN THE REAL WORLD, (not on a track, not in a race) is faster, handles better than a Griffmaera, then there are two responses here that are given in the light of having driven both types of car. That makes those responses more valid than yours, unless of course you forgot to tell us that you have driven a Tamora.
Now, you may think that you are being really smart and clever with all your oh-so-humourous, off-the-wall comments on these fora, but actually, you sound like an anally retentive, self-satisfied tosspot. Validate your arguments with something other than your personal beliefs and second hand opinion, and I will respect those opinions, otherwise just shut the **** up.
Edited to say:- look at my previous post - does it, or does it not start with the phrase "jigs, no offence taken"? What is it about that phrase that you don't understand, which allows you to make the offensive statement "Apologies if I trod on your egos which appear to be so inextricably bonded to your self-images of being the fastest boy-racers on the block".
I would suggest you examine your own ego - "35 years of driving"...."evertything from Austin Healeys to Ferraris".... "I've restored most of them as well in my time"....
Hmmm, ego trip or what, as with most of your other pathetic humourless contributions.
>> Edited by nubbin (moderator) on Saturday 31st May 21:36
Hold on nubbin I'll get nanny to pick up all the toys you've thrown out of your pram.
Yes I have driven a Tamora but that is not the point. My advice was not given to you but to mdrc. I am allowed to express a different opinion from you.
Jigs
PS You're not much of a moderator, are you? Have some Calpol, suck your thumb and go to sleep - it'll all be better in the morning. Sweet dreams of little boy-racers in their Tamoras. Nite Nite!
>> Edited by jigs on Saturday 31st May 22:40
Yes I have driven a Tamora but that is not the point. My advice was not given to you but to mdrc. I am allowed to express a different opinion from you.
Jigs
PS You're not much of a moderator, are you? Have some Calpol, suck your thumb and go to sleep - it'll all be better in the morning. Sweet dreams of little boy-racers in their Tamoras. Nite Nite!
>> Edited by jigs on Saturday 31st May 22:40
Hi mdrc. I am a Tamora owner, it is the 1st TVR I have owned and I use it as an everyday car. I have just left my car at the factory and they have loaned me a Chimaera. From the time I pulled out of the factory, the Chimaera’s looks and V8 rumble did not fail to turn heads everywhere it went. However, in a nutshell the Tamora does everything quicker – turning, braking, and acceleration I am not a girl racer but my boyfriend seems to be revisiting his youth! It is clear that TVR have come along way in recent years with the Tamora, and now the T350. I will be honest, I have had lots of niggles with my car but I am sure that as with any other TVR owner, when you get into the car and you are off down the road, all is forgiven. I think you need to ask yourself the question – do you want old world charm, or do you want a cutting-edge sports car that can hold its own with the best on the road. Looks-wise, I think the Tamora is the prettiest TVR with a modern interior but then that is just my personal opinion. Book yourself a test-drive!
jigs said:
Yes I have driven a Tamora but that is not the point.
Sorry? Not the point? I thought this thread was about helping mrdc decide on whether to stick with a Griff, or trade up to a Tamora. No driving involved there, then.
The first toy thrown out was yours - you made your comments but then decided ego's had something to do with other comments - did the comments about how much better a car the Tamora is ruffle your little Griff loving feathers? Aw, diddums. Say what you want, but...
mrdc, the Tamora is faster, handles better, stops better, grips better, looks fantastic, has a wonderful interior, great seats, great engine. What more do you need?
There's a few things to consider when making your choice -
Having driven a Tamora & owned a well sorted Chimaera 450, here are my thoughts:
The Tamora is definately faster & handles better than a standard Chimaera (even a good one like mine)
However, it's a different kind of power delivery - you have to rev the n*ts off it to get the full power, unlike the lazy torque of the V8 (I'm not saying it's worse, just different)
Spend a grand on a set of Nitrons, and the Chimaera will probably handle almost as well
Interior:
Number of features is far higher on the Tamora, however I found the LCD hard to read in bright sunlight, although I really liked the shift lights.
I prefer the traditional look of the walnut dash & aluminium surrounde4d dials, but this is down to individual taste.
Safety - the Tamora is going to fare far better in a rollover accident than a Griff/Chim, as it has a strengthened windscreen
Short Overhangs - Tamora is going to be easier to park, although unlikely to be driveable even after a small accident. Chimaera boot far more useful.
Drive all of them & see what you prefer!
Having driven a Tamora & owned a well sorted Chimaera 450, here are my thoughts:
The Tamora is definately faster & handles better than a standard Chimaera (even a good one like mine)
However, it's a different kind of power delivery - you have to rev the n*ts off it to get the full power, unlike the lazy torque of the V8 (I'm not saying it's worse, just different)
Spend a grand on a set of Nitrons, and the Chimaera will probably handle almost as well
Interior:
Number of features is far higher on the Tamora, however I found the LCD hard to read in bright sunlight, although I really liked the shift lights.
I prefer the traditional look of the walnut dash & aluminium surrounde4d dials, but this is down to individual taste.
Safety - the Tamora is going to fare far better in a rollover accident than a Griff/Chim, as it has a strengthened windscreen
Short Overhangs - Tamora is going to be easier to park, although unlikely to be driveable even after a small accident. Chimaera boot far more useful.
Drive all of them & see what you prefer!
When the Tamora first came out I took it for a test drive as I was thinking about upgrading from my Chimaera 450 (I do consider it an upgrade particularly in the handling dept). However I was fairly unimpressed with the performance in comparison to the 450.
The power delivery was certainly different - you get a shove in the back from the V8 no matter what RPM, but the Tamora just didn't seem to deliver the same sort of thrill.
The dealer reckoned that it was just as fast but because it delivered its power more "smoothly" then it would feel slower. I think that was cack, and the real reason was that it hadn't been run in yet. They had the rev limiter (or the lights at least) set to about 5,000 rpm, so I never got full power.
So if you test drive a Tamora, make sure it is one that has been run in so you can use full power. I haven't been back since so I still don't really know how quick it can be. I'd hope that if I got to use more revs then I'd get the acceleration I expected - otherwise I'd stick with my 450.
I haven't been to test a T350C yet either because I was waiting for it to get a few more miles on the clock - then they went and sold it so I have to wait again!
>> Edited by metcalfer on Sunday 1st June 15:01
The power delivery was certainly different - you get a shove in the back from the V8 no matter what RPM, but the Tamora just didn't seem to deliver the same sort of thrill.
The dealer reckoned that it was just as fast but because it delivered its power more "smoothly" then it would feel slower. I think that was cack, and the real reason was that it hadn't been run in yet. They had the rev limiter (or the lights at least) set to about 5,000 rpm, so I never got full power.
So if you test drive a Tamora, make sure it is one that has been run in so you can use full power. I haven't been back since so I still don't really know how quick it can be. I'd hope that if I got to use more revs then I'd get the acceleration I expected - otherwise I'd stick with my 450.
I haven't been to test a T350C yet either because I was waiting for it to get a few more miles on the clock - then they went and sold it so I have to wait again!
>> Edited by metcalfer on Sunday 1st June 15:01
Nubbin you're still a bit fractious - have another dose of Calpol and a wee sleep.
My final comments on this thread are:-
Whatever TVR you choose to drive - please enjoy and take care - the road isn't a racetrack!
Nick and nubbin - enjoy your Tamoras - they're wonderful machines - if you enjoy them half as much as I enjoy my Griffith you'll have permanent smiles.
Be tolerant on and off the road. (especially on PH)
My final comments on this thread are:-
Whatever TVR you choose to drive - please enjoy and take care - the road isn't a racetrack!
Nick and nubbin - enjoy your Tamoras - they're wonderful machines - if you enjoy them half as much as I enjoy my Griffith you'll have permanent smiles.
Be tolerant on and off the road. (especially on PH)
mdrc said: Wow - generated some heat here, but extremely useful - thanks for the tips - off to book that Tamora test drive!
If I were you I would try to book back to back tests in both a Grif and a Tamora. I did and ended up with a Tamora - it is the better car. The Grif does look and sound fantastic but it can not keep up with the Tamora.
I went from a 4.0l Chimaera to a Tamora ... I'd put nitrons on the Chimaera and it certainly improved the handling substantially, but the looks of the Tamora and the subliminal handling did it for me. I do miss the V8 rumble and the power delivery is very different, but I have sat in traffic for and hour and a half in blistering heat on the M1 and not seen the temperature rise above 97, which is a bonus.
The boot's useless by comparison, but there's far less wind noise at speed.
I haven't had it long, but I have been disappointed with the number of irritating niggles on a 9 month old car, and now the gear box is playing up.
In all honesty I'm still not sure I made the right decision, possibly if I hadn't had the problems and the dealer showed more interest in rectifying the faults I'd be more convinced.
And nubbin, you have my sympathies having embroiled yourself with the site tw*t.
The boot's useless by comparison, but there's far less wind noise at speed.
I haven't had it long, but I have been disappointed with the number of irritating niggles on a 9 month old car, and now the gear box is playing up.
In all honesty I'm still not sure I made the right decision, possibly if I hadn't had the problems and the dealer showed more interest in rectifying the faults I'd be more convinced.
And nubbin, you have my sympathies having embroiled yourself with the site tw*t.
jigs said: Enjoy your Tamoras boys they're great toys! Sorry you have your doubts.
PS Sticks and stones etc., etc. Mr Woods.
>> Edited by jigs on Monday 2nd June 13:32
Jigs.
I'm sure you can read, but incase you can't, this is a forum for Tamora and T350 owners, not one for wind up merchants who own a Griff and want to tell the world it's better than everything else...
You seem to be intent on upsetting everyone on the T350/Tamora forum these days and I don't understand why. I owned a Griff and I loved it. It isn't better than a Tamora in anything other than looks and that is just a personal opinion down to individual tastes. It doesn't handle anywhere near a Tamora or T350, it isn't quicker, it isn't easier to drive and if 18,000 miles in my Griff is anything to go by, it's not even on the same planet in the wet or indeed through corners in ANY conditions....the difference is not "marginal" as you put it, it is massive. Come for a ride round any circuit in this country and I'll show you why it is an a different league.
So, you have driven a Tamora eh? So what? I have driven Diablo's, Ferrari's, Vipers, Maserati's, Noble's etc.etc. Doing a ten minute test drive or 5 laps of a circuit does not compare to several months of ownership or driving in all conditions. Please stop talking shite and try to join in the debate by adding something meaningful other than some pathetic attempt at wit and some boring observation about your V8 sounding better than a speed six. You are becoming tedious and boring and most of us are getting fed up with you.
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