Discussion
So, does anyone know, or have any idea of, the intended spec of the Sagaris RT? I think Christof ordered one, I assume for the road. I know all knowledge will come to those who wait but 12 months after parting with cash I'd like a little idea about what's on the horizon. The dealers seem to know nothing.
Hi Washy.
Not much info, but I ran a piece at www.T350r.co.uk in early December about this.
The plan was for a full racing version, a track version (possibly both
badged as the Sagaris RT) and of course the road legal model.
The RT versions would see the Race cars sold with engines and gearboxes
being leased out, while the final Track package has yet to be released.
Dealers will have a simultaneous delivery hopefully in early February of
the road demonstrators which are now in build at the factory.
More details and photos at the above site in the News section.
You also might want to book mark this:
www.sagaris.info
Not much info, but I ran a piece at www.T350r.co.uk in early December about this.
The plan was for a full racing version, a track version (possibly both
badged as the Sagaris RT) and of course the road legal model.
The RT versions would see the Race cars sold with engines and gearboxes
being leased out, while the final Track package has yet to be released.
Dealers will have a simultaneous delivery hopefully in early February of
the road demonstrators which are now in build at the factory.
More details and photos at the above site in the News section.
You also might want to book mark this:
www.sagaris.info
NB slashes are filled in with black stickers. 
Also at the back two those nasty circular depressions in the body underneath the numberplate. I think they are for extra reflectors on the road car. Why!!! Hasn't it got enough lights at the back as it is?
New exhausts cool though and the red crackle finish cam cover looks nice.
Also at the back two those nasty circular depressions in the body underneath the numberplate. I think they are for extra reflectors on the road car. Why!!! Hasn't it got enough lights at the back as it is?
New exhausts cool though and the red crackle finish cam cover looks nice.
washy said:
They were 'an important feature' when I was sold the concept 12 months ago. I like form following function (did I get that right!) rather than for the sake of it.
Neil,
As you know I'm with you on this one...this was how it was sold to us before we departed with our hard earned deposit!
Would like to know more about the track/road version differences.
Alan.
I've tried to put some pressure on my dealer to let the factory know that there's strong feeling on the slashes. Well, no slashes are one thing but cheap nasty black stickers to fake the holes? Talk about adding insult to injury.
The trouble is, seeing a new one will have considerable wow factor particularly on me, seeing the prototype already made me order one against my will. I need to complain now because when I see it brand new I won't be in any mind to have it sent back!
I agree the slashes were a major part of the concept as sold to us. It's not all about the 4 litre, I'd have ordered one with a 3.6 if it had the full working aerodynamic kit and uprated suspension.
I also ordered a Sagaris on the basis of the prototype styling (and spec) but after some consideration I think you might be making too much of the filled-in vents.
Sure it's a shame that they've turned from a practical function into a styling feature, but they were obviously filled in for a reason. Bottom line is, they either made no difference or they were impractical (throwing mud onto the windscreen for example).
The whole point of a prototype is to start with a dream and then discard what doesn't work out. You can't really complain when you place an order for a dream and then find the reality has changed, nor can you petition TVR to go back to having holes when it seems obvious that if they could have remained as working vents then they would have left them as such.
We should leave the car designing to the car designers, it's what they do for a living so they've probably got more idea about it than we have.
Sure it's a shame that they've turned from a practical function into a styling feature, but they were obviously filled in for a reason. Bottom line is, they either made no difference or they were impractical (throwing mud onto the windscreen for example).
The whole point of a prototype is to start with a dream and then discard what doesn't work out. You can't really complain when you place an order for a dream and then find the reality has changed, nor can you petition TVR to go back to having holes when it seems obvious that if they could have remained as working vents then they would have left them as such.
We should leave the car designing to the car designers, it's what they do for a living so they've probably got more idea about it than we have.
I believe the Sagaris can be ordered in a number of options:
Race cars:
TVR Challenge car - Rolling chassis, excluding gearbox and engine. Components to build up to a race car can be ordered from TVR
Sagaris GT car - similar to above but options different as you would expect, to take up to GT spec
Road/track cars:
Sagaris R/T (or 'Road/Track') - a road legal but track focussed car similar to the one on display at Autosport. Race type seats, harnesses, extra bracing on the roll cage, fire extinguisher (?), not fully trimmed (?)
Sagaris - the full monty road car, with full trim, aircon etc etc
As regards the vents on the wings - on a race car these can be left open and with no wheel arch liner, will be functional in removing high pressure air.
On a road car as a consequence you would get stones, dirt etc coming through and damaging the bodywork. Not really an issue on the race car, but not terribly practial or acceptable on a road car costing £50k. Or necessary.
Race cars:
TVR Challenge car - Rolling chassis, excluding gearbox and engine. Components to build up to a race car can be ordered from TVR
Sagaris GT car - similar to above but options different as you would expect, to take up to GT spec
Road/track cars:
Sagaris R/T (or 'Road/Track') - a road legal but track focussed car similar to the one on display at Autosport. Race type seats, harnesses, extra bracing on the roll cage, fire extinguisher (?), not fully trimmed (?)
Sagaris - the full monty road car, with full trim, aircon etc etc
As regards the vents on the wings - on a race car these can be left open and with no wheel arch liner, will be functional in removing high pressure air.
On a road car as a consequence you would get stones, dirt etc coming through and damaging the bodywork. Not really an issue on the race car, but not terribly practial or acceptable on a road car costing £50k. Or necessary.
Andy - Thanks for that. Very interesting and useful.
I'm not really interested in the Sagaris as a daily road car. It'll be doing some road work (playtime basically) and a fair amount of track days. Certainly no commuting. I wanted it to excel on the track hence the interest in it and not the T350C. If, as a consequence, it’s a bit of a pain on the road then fair enough. I was given to understand that the vents on the wings were all part of a revelation in stability and all round draw dropping wonder when it comes to the inevitable days spent on track. I figured straight away that they would introduce issues day to day but then that wasn’t a concern. I kind of expected we would be able to remove or replace the inners on the wheel arch to counter some of the pros and cons. I would like to have this choice. Maybe the range of specs you discuss will allow me to achieve it?
I'm not really interested in the Sagaris as a daily road car. It'll be doing some road work (playtime basically) and a fair amount of track days. Certainly no commuting. I wanted it to excel on the track hence the interest in it and not the T350C. If, as a consequence, it’s a bit of a pain on the road then fair enough. I was given to understand that the vents on the wings were all part of a revelation in stability and all round draw dropping wonder when it comes to the inevitable days spent on track. I figured straight away that they would introduce issues day to day but then that wasn’t a concern. I kind of expected we would be able to remove or replace the inners on the wheel arch to counter some of the pros and cons. I would like to have this choice. Maybe the range of specs you discuss will allow me to achieve it?
I think the original design of the Sagaris was intended to produce a car which TVR could go GT racing with.
For sustained very high speed running (e.g. Le Mans), the vents will produce some advantage.
For track day work personally I wouldn't be driving the car so close to its limits that they would make any difference.
You'll have to talk to the factory, but you may be able to have the wheel arch inners removed and the vents cut out. My Tuscan racer gets vaccummed out after every race and all the bits of gravel etc removed from the footwell and inside the wheel arch cavities. Is this really something you want to be doing with a road/track car? You'll also be re-painting the thing quite often....
For sustained very high speed running (e.g. Le Mans), the vents will produce some advantage.
For track day work personally I wouldn't be driving the car so close to its limits that they would make any difference.
You'll have to talk to the factory, but you may be able to have the wheel arch inners removed and the vents cut out. My Tuscan racer gets vaccummed out after every race and all the bits of gravel etc removed from the footwell and inside the wheel arch cavities. Is this really something you want to be doing with a road/track car? You'll also be re-painting the thing quite often....
Thanks - you're probably (almost doubtless) right about the aerodynamic function. I did think they were going to put a mesh in the arch to trap the crap flying around and stop them bouncing over the bonnet though. I'm thinking from a "what are those daft chunks cut out of the wing for?" point of view. Do I want to say "aerodynamics" or "styling". I think the aerodynamics answer carries more credibility.
I'll talk to the factory when I stick my 10% down and find out the score then.
I'll talk to the factory when I stick my 10% down and find out the score then.
Even from a purely styling point of veiw I think the car has to have the holes cut out. Black stickers to fake the holes just looks cheap and worse the whole body looks more like it's just come out of the mould without the holes. I know this from seeing the cars on the production line at the factory.
With wheelarch liners there would be no aerodynamic advantage but at least it would look as glorious a styling exercise as the prototype.
With wheelarch liners there would be no aerodynamic advantage but at least it would look as glorious a styling exercise as the prototype.
i dont understand this sticker thing. i saw the sagaris at autosport and the bodywork had the slots cut through but not all the way through the arch liner i didnt see any stickers, i thought it looked quite good and if you're flying past someone at a track day are they really going to be able to look close enough to see they dont go all the way through?
I had a good look at the red Sagaris RT at Autosport, and I can confirm that this particular car DID have vents going all the way through the wheel arch liner, however they were quite small (3" x 3" I'd say).
The slots in the bodywork were proper slots, and not stickers, and although there was a liner between the wheel arch and the slots, there was a hole in the liner abouve the inner edge of the wheel which would allow air to vent from the wheel arch out of the body vents.
The slots in the bodywork were proper slots, and not stickers, and although there was a liner between the wheel arch and the slots, there was a hole in the liner abouve the inner edge of the wheel which would allow air to vent from the wheel arch out of the body vents.
the pits said:
Even from a purely styling point of veiw I think the car has to have the holes cut out. Black stickers to fake the holes just looks cheap and worse the whole body looks more like it's just come out of the mould without the holes. I know this from seeing the cars on the production line at the factory.
With wheelarch liners there would be no aerodynamic advantage but at least it would look as glorious a styling exercise as the prototype.
Agree 100%
,, stickers are no better than 'Max Power' add ons! I thought the beauty of TVRs was the fact that everything is functional, and not for show! I'm sorry, but if I were spending that kind of money on a car, I most certainly wouldn't want it adorened with stickers!!!! Reminds me of those cheap crappy Action Man jeeps, which you have to apply all the stickers to for detailing!!! yuck!!I've yet to see the autosport show car but I'm really pleased to hear that it has some holes cut in it. The stickers thing came from the race sagaris on show at gorners and from my recent visit to the factory where the cars on the line most definitely did not have any holes in the bodywork. Again I can only hope that these cars were yet to be finished and that the holes are the last things to be done but the guys I spoke to at the factory said that the vents are being filled in.
Autosport news is encouraging though. I've got my fingers crossed!
Gassing Station | Tamora, T350 & Sagaris | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff