Who heels and toes?
Discussion
In their Tamora or T350?
Not taken mine on the track yet, and I do blip the throttle to match engine/road speed in the new gear etc, I find the pedal box great for this. But on a track you need to heel and toe at the same time ... I'm finding it difficult to get my foot on both pedals at the same time. I'm wearing shoes with a reasonably narrow sole (similar to driving shoes). Maybe I need to wear my hiking boots?
Any hints/comments on heeling and toeing in these cars?
Not taken mine on the track yet, and I do blip the throttle to match engine/road speed in the new gear etc, I find the pedal box great for this. But on a track you need to heel and toe at the same time ... I'm finding it difficult to get my foot on both pedals at the same time. I'm wearing shoes with a reasonably narrow sole (similar to driving shoes). Maybe I need to wear my hiking boots?
Any hints/comments on heeling and toeing in these cars?
I started heel-and-toeing seriously on Eurohoon last year, after practising for about a year - can't stop doing it now! I have a pair of "driving shoes" - in fact they're a pair of cheap suede jobbies from matalan, but they have a nice firm sole and are just perfect for blipping the throttle on down changes.
The Tamora pedal are perfectly positioned for it, and the long travel accelerator means you can apply just as many revs as you need.
(If you listen closely, you might hear a few changes on the Hoon videos I submitted...
)
The Tamora pedal are perfectly positioned for it, and the long travel accelerator means you can apply just as many revs as you need.
(If you listen closely, you might hear a few changes on the Hoon videos I submitted...
)Actually, the thing that prompted me to learn was an article on Tuscan Race Cars several years ago and how you have to heel toe to prevent the back wheels locking up because of the engine braking effect in a V8 when the weight shifts to the front under braking, unloading the rear tyres. The slightly more rev happy nature of the Sp6 probably means you can get away with a lot more.
stag said:
Don't worry about it unless you fancy a bit of track racing in the serious mode.
Don't entirely agree with that. Matching revs on downshifts is an essential skill if you drive a powerful rwd car. You can do it without h&t, but h&t allows you to do it without compromising your ability to brake.
Double declutching is completely unnecessary on a car with a synchro box.
As already mentioned, heel and toe is often essential in a powerful rear wheel car when braking and changing down, particularly in the wet. Failure to do so can result in the rear wheels locking up and cause a spin.
Personally I also think that your transmission is likely to last longer when you heel and toe correctly.
Regards
Andy
As already mentioned, heel and toe is often essential in a powerful rear wheel car when braking and changing down, particularly in the wet. Failure to do so can result in the rear wheels locking up and cause a spin.
Personally I also think that your transmission is likely to last longer when you heel and toe correctly.
Regards
Andy
Ha Ha
then read this, or go to one of the many racing Q&A web sites. A good one is here also http://driversedge.com
Tech Tip: Double Clutching
As written for the Jan-Feb 1999 editions of "The Octagon", the monthly newsletter of the MGOC.
One of the joys and delights of a true sports car is the manual transmission. In addition to allowing the driver to be in control of the gear-selection process, manual transmissions generally provide superior fuel economy and performance than automatic transmissions. It is essential, however, to know the "proper" way to shift a manual transmission to enjoy these advantages while enhancing driver/passenger comfort.
Virtually everyone knows how to upshift a "stick", but downshifting is an art that few Americans seem to know how to do well. In particular, very few drivers today double-clutch (or "double de-clutch"), which is also known as "matching revs" between the engine and transmission. Most drivers, when downshifting, merely press in the clutch after letting off the throttle, jam the stick in a lower gear, and then let out the clutch. In modern vehicles, this is possible with synchromesh transmissions, but is usually accompanied by a sudden rearward weight transfer, if not any less-than-harmonious engine/transmission noises. To the occupants, especially the passenger, this jerkiness can be annoying, and in spirited driving, this sudden weight transfer can have an adverse effect on handling. Perhaps more importantly, however, is that the life-span of the synchromeshes may be shortened with this practice. The solution, then, is to double-clutch!
To double-clutch during a downshift, perform the following steps:
Let off the throttle, press in the clutch, and shift the "stick" to neutral.
Let out the clutch.
Bump the throttle to make the engine "blip". Sometimes in my MG I'll press in the accelerator all the way to the floor for a fraction of a second.
Press in the clutch.
As the engine speed decreases to match the transmission speed, throw the stick into the next lower gear. Since you actively "matched the revs", it should fall right in!
Let out the clutch. The downshift should have been as smooth as butter!
Note that Steps 1-6 are actually performed in a split-second. To start double clutching for the first time, you may perform the steps slowly. However, with practice, everything becomes second-nature. In addition to saving wear-and-tear on the transmission, double-clutching sounds cool (due to the throttle-blip) and shows the passenger that you are an "adept driver".
Heel-Toe Downshifting: Braking + Double-Clutching
Another advanced technique is heel-toe downshifting. Heel toe downshifting is a variation of double clutching, but is performed while the car needs to slow down quickly (as in the approach of a sharp corner). More precisely, heel-toe downshifting is double clutching, except that you are braking at the same time! The name comes from braking with one's toes while blipping the throttle with one's heel of the same (right) foot. Admittedly, this technique takes a lot of coordination and practice!
Actually, most MGs (and other British cars for that matter) seem to have the pedals optimally placed for heel-toe downshifting. Some people even "enlargen" the accelerator pedal by installing a "Paddy Hopkirk pedal" on top of it or by, say, replacing the smaller accelerator pedals of a chrome-bumpered MGB with a longer one from a rubber-bumpered B, in order to ease heel-toe downshifting. At least with my '69 MGB, however, I find that the stock setup is more than adequate, and much better than other cars. For example, on my Porsche 944 Turbo, it is impossible to "heel-toe" with the heel and toes, due to the lower placement of the accelerator pedal and its floor-mounted pivot point. In this case, the most effective method seems to be to "heel-toe" with the inside of the right foot on the brake, and the outside of the right foot blipping the throttle. Of course, this "inside-outside" technique can be used on an MGB too, although I find that the more traditional "heel-toe" method allows for more pedal travel and more "throttle blippage."
then read this, or go to one of the many racing Q&A web sites. A good one is here also http://driversedge.com
Tech Tip: Double Clutching
As written for the Jan-Feb 1999 editions of "The Octagon", the monthly newsletter of the MGOC.
One of the joys and delights of a true sports car is the manual transmission. In addition to allowing the driver to be in control of the gear-selection process, manual transmissions generally provide superior fuel economy and performance than automatic transmissions. It is essential, however, to know the "proper" way to shift a manual transmission to enjoy these advantages while enhancing driver/passenger comfort.
Virtually everyone knows how to upshift a "stick", but downshifting is an art that few Americans seem to know how to do well. In particular, very few drivers today double-clutch (or "double de-clutch"), which is also known as "matching revs" between the engine and transmission. Most drivers, when downshifting, merely press in the clutch after letting off the throttle, jam the stick in a lower gear, and then let out the clutch. In modern vehicles, this is possible with synchromesh transmissions, but is usually accompanied by a sudden rearward weight transfer, if not any less-than-harmonious engine/transmission noises. To the occupants, especially the passenger, this jerkiness can be annoying, and in spirited driving, this sudden weight transfer can have an adverse effect on handling. Perhaps more importantly, however, is that the life-span of the synchromeshes may be shortened with this practice. The solution, then, is to double-clutch!
To double-clutch during a downshift, perform the following steps:
Let off the throttle, press in the clutch, and shift the "stick" to neutral.
Let out the clutch.
Bump the throttle to make the engine "blip". Sometimes in my MG I'll press in the accelerator all the way to the floor for a fraction of a second.
Press in the clutch.
As the engine speed decreases to match the transmission speed, throw the stick into the next lower gear. Since you actively "matched the revs", it should fall right in!
Let out the clutch. The downshift should have been as smooth as butter!
Note that Steps 1-6 are actually performed in a split-second. To start double clutching for the first time, you may perform the steps slowly. However, with practice, everything becomes second-nature. In addition to saving wear-and-tear on the transmission, double-clutching sounds cool (due to the throttle-blip) and shows the passenger that you are an "adept driver".
Heel-Toe Downshifting: Braking + Double-Clutching
Another advanced technique is heel-toe downshifting. Heel toe downshifting is a variation of double clutching, but is performed while the car needs to slow down quickly (as in the approach of a sharp corner). More precisely, heel-toe downshifting is double clutching, except that you are braking at the same time! The name comes from braking with one's toes while blipping the throttle with one's heel of the same (right) foot. Admittedly, this technique takes a lot of coordination and practice!
Actually, most MGs (and other British cars for that matter) seem to have the pedals optimally placed for heel-toe downshifting. Some people even "enlargen" the accelerator pedal by installing a "Paddy Hopkirk pedal" on top of it or by, say, replacing the smaller accelerator pedals of a chrome-bumpered MGB with a longer one from a rubber-bumpered B, in order to ease heel-toe downshifting. At least with my '69 MGB, however, I find that the stock setup is more than adequate, and much better than other cars. For example, on my Porsche 944 Turbo, it is impossible to "heel-toe" with the heel and toes, due to the lower placement of the accelerator pedal and its floor-mounted pivot point. In this case, the most effective method seems to be to "heel-toe" with the inside of the right foot on the brake, and the outside of the right foot blipping the throttle. Of course, this "inside-outside" technique can be used on an MGB too, although I find that the more traditional "heel-toe" method allows for more pedal travel and more "throttle blippage."
Thorough explanation for the uninitiated, Stag I've heel & toe'd on road for decades after my rally-driving father taught me, to achieve a smooth drive (braking steadily without interruption, while changing into the right gear to enter and exit the corner) and used to similar effect on the track. Decided years ago that these things are best to practice all the time so it's second nature, IMO.
stag said:
Totally agree.
stag said:
Don't worry about it unless you fancy a bit of track racing in the serious mode.
What are you agreeing with? Tail slide says he heel&toes on the road and yet you've already mentioned that you don't think people should worry about doing it on the road?
For what it's worth I heel&toe on the road all the time even if I'm not going very fast.
I think the general feeling should be that you always match revs on down changes regardless of how you achieve it?
I find heel&toe easier than DD clutching strangely...
Duncan
I disagree Stag old chap (although articles which educate our American cousins on how to drive a 'stick shift' are on the whole, to be applauded!)
Double de-clutching was necessary in older cars with sliding or constant mesh gears. The synchro-mesh box was designed to eliminate the need for this - and if your car has a synchromesh gearbox it is recommended you do not double-de-clutch as this can cause wear on the synchro rings.
On the track I cannot think of a single instance when I would be changing down without also braking as if I were I would be losing time.
On the road people may change down immediately prior to overtaking - in this case press the clutch, select the lower gear and blip the throttle as you release the clutch pedal, timed in such a way that the engine revs match the road speed as the clutch engages.
Changing down whilst braking requires the heel and toe technique - which as already described, is the same technique as above, but (depending on the pedal set up) requires use of part of the right foot on the brake, and the outside or heel of the same foot to blip the throttle.
I am not aware of any of my colleagues in the Tuscan Challenge double de-clutching - it will only slow the gear change for no advantage.
Other than that I agree with everything you say
Double de-clutching was necessary in older cars with sliding or constant mesh gears. The synchro-mesh box was designed to eliminate the need for this - and if your car has a synchromesh gearbox it is recommended you do not double-de-clutch as this can cause wear on the synchro rings.
On the track I cannot think of a single instance when I would be changing down without also braking as if I were I would be losing time.
On the road people may change down immediately prior to overtaking - in this case press the clutch, select the lower gear and blip the throttle as you release the clutch pedal, timed in such a way that the engine revs match the road speed as the clutch engages.
Changing down whilst braking requires the heel and toe technique - which as already described, is the same technique as above, but (depending on the pedal set up) requires use of part of the right foot on the brake, and the outside or heel of the same foot to blip the throttle.
I am not aware of any of my colleagues in the Tuscan Challenge double de-clutching - it will only slow the gear change for no advantage.
Other than that I agree with everything you say
stag said:
Totally agree.
Agree boys. I was taught to HnT and ddc from first driving lessons by dad. I use both techniques every day, every time I get in a car, every car Ive driven. The Grif needs it with powerful rwd effect and a slightly recalictrant gearbox, while the Fiesta needs it because the synchro is buggered on 3rd and 5th!
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