T350T or convert a Sagaris..?

[notax]

I have owned Chimaeras for about 12 years and am considering adding another TVR to my collection to replace my Aston Vantage S Roadster which I haven't really gelled with. I prefer my cars to be convertibles or targa tops and had a look at the Dave Hillis built Tuscan / Sagaris conversion at the weekend:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...

I like the idea of having a unique, or at least very unusual car but want one that has a big enough boot for a European trip with the roof stored. I would also like the car to be in very good condition.

Few questions:

Does the roof on a T350T work well in the opinion of owners?
Has anyone converted a Sagaris in this way?
Is the handling of a Sagaris really the big leap forward over the T350 that it is claimed to be?

[Findles]

May have misread what you put, but out of interest are you saying the Tuscan / Sagaris conversion you looked at isn't in top condition (?) - only ask as I spotted it myself recently and like the idea of it

[notax]

Findles said:

May have misread what you put, but out of interest are you saying the Tuscan / Sagaris conversion you looked at isn't in top condition (?) - only ask as I spotted it myself recently and like the idea of it

Well, without wanting to cause the seller any grief, the paint work certainly isn't of a standard I'd be happy with. The colour is stunning and from a distance it looks good but there are various areas which I would want attending to - and as I understand it, the candy paint is extremely expensive and difficult to match.

Any feedback from owners of T350Ts as per initial post appreciated

[Tom74TVR]

notax said:

I have owned Chimaeras for about 12 years and am considering adding another TVR to my collection to replace my Aston Vantage S Roadster which I haven't really gelled with. I prefer my cars to be convertibles or targa tops and had a look at the Dave Hillis built Tuscan / Sagaris conversion at the weekend:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...

I like the idea of having a unique, or at least very unusual car but want one that has a big enough boot for a European trip with the roof stored. I would also like the car to be in very good condition.

Few questions:

Does the roof on a T350T work well in the opinion of owners?
Has anyone converted a Sagaris in this way?
Is the handling of a Sagaris really the big leap forward over the T350 that it is claimed to be?

Hi, I am lucky enough to have a T350t and a Sagaris, both with a 4L speed6.

You ask me basically to tell you which of my children is best :-)

The roofpanels on the t350 I have, still use the old style clips which are not only quite noisy at high speeds but... Well, one of my panels decided to become airbourne on the motorway a couple of months ago... It was properly fitted.
But, even after a short flight the panel was still ok and I have made the decision to change the inside of my roof to the second generation of targa panels, which use a better system. They work better... Even with wind noise.

And I have to admit that for the last three weeks I have only been driving my t350 with the panels off... And I loved every bit.
My t350 is also faster than my sagaris... The t350 has about 380hp (red rose)and the sagaris about 352hp but this is because the sagaris is detuned to meet engine regulations... But also this is going to be fixed soon as well.

The sagaris however is built to a much higher quality compared to my t350. And I specifically say mine as I know there are a few which are built to a higher standard... But nothing falls off.

The feeling you get when driving a sagaris is that it feels more planted, imho. I feel less nervous driving fast in my sag. So yes it handles better.

I sometimes miss the fact that my sagaris cannot take its roof off but that though disappears immediatly when I open my garage to take her out for a drive. The sagaris looks perfect to me and I would not want to change the way it looks.

Tom.

[spartridge]

I'm assuming you don't like the Tuscan Chris as it sounds like a Targa or convertible would meet your needs perfectly

[Legacywr]

The Tuscan is a bit visually challenged......

[spartridge]

Each to their own. I could say exactly the same about the Sagaris

[ShiDevil]

Tom74TVR said:

Hi, I am lucky enough to have a T350t and a Sagaris, both with a 4L speed6.

You ask me basically to tell you which of my children is best :-)

The roofpanels on the t350 I have, still use the old style clips which are not only quite noisy at high speeds but... Well, one of my panels decided to become airbourne on the motorway a couple of months ago... It was properly fitted.
But, even after a short flight the panel was still ok and I have made the decision to change the inside of my roof to the second generation of targa panels, which use a better system. They work better... Even with wind noise.

And I have to admit that for the last three weeks I have only been driving my t350 with the panels off... And I loved every bit.
My t350 is also faster than my sagaris... The t350 has about 380hp (red rose)and the sagaris about 352hp but this is because the sagaris is detuned to meet engine regulations... But also this is going to be fixed soon as well.

The sagaris however is built to a much higher quality compared to my t350. And I specifically say mine as I know there are a few which are built to a higher standard... But nothing falls off.

The feeling you get when driving a sagaris is that it feels more planted, imho. I feel less nervous driving fast in my sag. So yes it handles better.

I sometimes miss the fact that my sagaris cannot take its roof off but that though disappears immediatly when I open my garage to take her out for a drive. The sagaris looks perfect to me and I would not want to change the way it looks.

Tom.

Same shocks on both? Both cars setup properly etc?

[notax]

spartridge said:

I'm assuming you don't like the Tuscan Chris as it sounds like a Targa or convertible would meet your needs perfectly

Yes, I'm afraid neither version of Tuscan appeals to me visually and I also struggle with the aesthetics of the back of the Tamora (fussy bugger aren't I?!)

I did test drive a Tamora a few years ago and was extremely impressed by it, however its handling felt more like my F355 and didn't offer the rawness that I enjoy in my Chimaera. The seller thought I was barking mad saying I didn't like it because it handled too well, but I like cars with a bit of an 'edge'. Having said that, the best handling car I have driven has been my second F355 (recently sold, which I'm already regretting!) which was incredibly well sorted, yet managed to remain involving. Maybe the early Tamora I drove just wasn't quite powerful enough to exploit the chassis...

[notax]

Tom, thank you for getting in touch - it sounds as though you are just the man I was hoping to hear from! For me, the two best looking TVR models are the two that you own. The T350T would no doubt be the easier and considerably less expensive option for me, but the extra visual edge and relative rarity of the Sagaris are very appealing. Leaving aside the fact that you like your Sagaris the way that it is, do you think that a T350T style roof conversion would work? In other words are the roofs similar internally - for example no additional metalwork in the Sagaris roof? Can you tell whether the standard roof panels from the T350T would fit on the Sagaris? Do you know when the roof panels on the T350T were improved and can you explain how? Thanks for your help

[Fayaz LP640]

notax said:

Tom, thank you for getting in touch - it sounds as though you are just the man I was hoping to hear from! For me, the two best looking TVR models are the two that you own. The T350T would no doubt be the easier and considerably less expensive option for me, but the extra visual edge and relative rarity of the Sagaris are very appealing. Leaving aside the fact that you like your Sagaris the way that it is, do you think that a T350T style roof conversion would work? In other words are the roofs similar internally - for example no additional metalwork in the Sagaris roof? Can you tell whether the standard roof panels from the T350T would fit on the Sagaris? Do you know when the roof panels on the T350T were improved and can you explain how? Thanks for your help

If rarity is an important factor for you, bear in mind that the T350T is quite a bit rarer than the Sagaris. Only around 100 were made whereas there are around 180(?) Sags.

[Walford]

Legacywr said:

The Tuscan is a bit visually challenged......

[ShiDevil]

Fayaz LP640 said:

If rarity is an important factor for you, bear in mind that the T350T is quite a bit rarer than the Sagaris. Only around 100 were made whereas there are around 180(?) Sags.

155 Sag in UK and 67 T350T, as the Sag is less exclusive ( lol) probably best to buy one of those and cut it up

[natben]

Are the roof lines of the T350 and the Sagaris not different?, the Sag has a bulge in the roof above the drivers head which the T350 does not have so would make a targa conversion difficult.

George

[Tom74TVR]

notax said:

Tom, thank you for getting in touch - it sounds as though you are just the man I was hoping to hear from! For me, the two best looking TVR models are the two that you own. The T350T would no doubt be the easier and considerably less expensive option for me, but the extra visual edge and relative rarity of the Sagaris are very appealing. Leaving aside the fact that you like your Sagaris the way that it is, do you think that a T350T style roof conversion would work? In other words are the roofs similar internally - for example no additional metalwork in the Sagaris roof? Can you tell whether the standard roof panels from the T350T would fit on the Sagaris? Do you know when the roof panels on the T350T were improved and can you explain how? Thanks for your help

I think the big difference in roof between a T350 and a Sagaris is that the T350 has an extra bar running between the two targa panels which is under some CF cover. I do not think you can just cut out two T350 panel shaped holes in a sagaris roof... I think you would need to replace the entire roof because of the bubble in the sagaris roof. No idea however how difficult or expensive it is to transplant the roof of a T350t (with the improved closing method) on a Sag.

The difference between the mk1 and mk2 targa panels is related to the position of the two metal plates that go under the roof and the clips (mk1) or butterfly screws (mk2). with the mk2 the metal plates are on the front and the screws are on the back (both corners). Because the mk1 uses clips which are on or off and the mk2 can be screwed as tight as possible, the mk2 are better... in short.
Hope this helps.
Tom.

[Tom74TVR]

ShiDevil said:

Same shocks on both? Both cars setup properly etc?

Hi.
Both my cars run the same brand of shocks as they came out of the factory with. The setup is good.
My T350 came with all the red rose upgrades but nothing was changed afterwards.
I am quite sure that if I would do certain upgrades the handling can be made even better but I am happy with a well maintained but standard setup. And that is exactly what is better in the Sagaris, the standard setup...

But don't get me wrong on this one... if I ever would need to sell one of my cars, it's the sag that has to go... As much as I love the Sagaris, I like the overall experience in my T350t (and a lot of it is down to the 't') more.

Tom.

[ShiDevil]

Tom74TVR said:

Hi.
Both my cars run the same brand of shocks as they came out of the factory with. The setup is good.
My T350 came with all the red rose upgrades but nothing was changed afterwards.
I am quite sure that if I would do certain upgrades the handling can be made even better but I am happy with a well maintained but standard setup. And that is exactly what is better in the Sagaris, the standard setup...

But don't get me wrong on this one... if I ever would need to sell one of my cars, it's the sag that has to go... As much as I love the Sagaris, I like the overall experience in my T350t (and a lot of it is down to the 't') more.

Tom.

Interesting good choice too I'm off to Centre of Gravity next week to get mine setup on my double adjustable shocks. It's pretty good as it is but after a trip to Le Mans the ride height bump rebound need tweaking it would be nice to drive a sag one day to note the difference good to have your view as a double owner

[monty quick]

I have a T350T and love it. I couldn't afford a Sag. If I could I guess I would have purchased a Sag rather than the T350 based on the fact that it has a wider track and should offer ultimately faster A to B times if driven 'on-the-edge'. However, the T350 is hardly 'slow'!
The Targa tops are noisy at high speeds. I seal mine with Silicon if I am doing long distances - a bit of a pain but solves the wind noise and it easily peels off if you suddenly decide to whip off the tops.

It may be based on an unconcious jealousy (as I can't afford to make expensive modifications) but I will be up front and say I really hate seeing TVRs dramatically modified from standard. The Sag was designed with a helmet bulge because it was aimed at circuit racing. It would be a great shame to see one of the 100 os so left have the roof cut. The T350T offers beautiful clean lines and can be upgraded to compete in all aspects with the Sagaris so surely this is the best choice if you want 'wind in the hair' driving. With only 68 T's on the road; with some good upgrades you would have a very exclusive car.

[notax]

Tom74TVR said:

. As much as I love the Sagaris, I like the overall experience in my T350t (and a lot of it is down to the 't') more.

Tom.

Hi Tom, so you can imagine why I'd ideally like a Sagaris with a 't'! Could possibly offer the best of both worlds... if it can be done.

[notax]

monty quick said:

It may be based on an unconcious jealousy (as I can't afford to make expensive modifications) but I will be up front and say I really hate seeing TVRs dramatically modified from standard. The Sag was designed with a helmet bulge because it was aimed at circuit racing. It would be a great shame to see one of the 100 os so left have the roof cut. The T350T offers beautiful clean lines and can be upgraded to compete in all aspects with the Sagaris so surely this is the best choice if you want 'wind in the hair' driving. With only 68 T's on the road; with some good upgrades you would have a very exclusive car.

I really like the look of the T350T, but I do prefer the wilder appearance of the Sagaris. Don't worry, if I do go ahead with the plan I will actually rescue a cat d or c Sagaris rather than cutting up a mint one. That way I'll not be butchering a pricey car and would also want to make other mods at the same time, such as opening the slashes and maybe a few other things...