Wow, are all 350 owners this punchy?
Discussion
Wow, are all 350 owners this punchy? 
You kids need to relax. Let's face facts if TVRs were French none of us would own one and we would all be on another forum mocking the poor delluded fools who bought these unreliable, tacky french jalopies.
But the fact is that they are British and so are we and as Brits we love a bit of character and adversity. And so we love our TVRs.
A TVR is a TVR is a TVR, we really don't want to head down the road of other marques and start looking down on older or less expensive models. People who do that probably have a spot of Burberry in their wardrobe, it's tres nouveau riche and should be avoided.
Now, let's look at some other facts, Wedges were unreliable, but then so were so many other marques back then. Griffs and Chimps were much better but then so were other marques by then but the most modern TVRs have argueably been a step backwards against the industry as a whole.
The increased use of complex electronics and an own built engine are almost certainly the cause.
If you love the marque then you will tolerate this but if you step away from this and look at it from a very cold perspective, it is unnacceptable to spend over £40K on a new car and run a significant chance of having engine issues before you have passed the 50K mark. Even for such a stressed engine.
I'm sure that time will resolve this and hopefully soon. I am sure that time has already improved the engine significantly and this is a work in progress.
What is important is that every owner, past, present and future has a different level of tolerance as to what they are prepared to put up with.
I will put up with almost anything on the Griff as it is a second car, I've had it 10 yrs and little has gone wrong. However, I will tolerate nothing but perfection on my everyday car. When I go from A to B during working hours, I won't even tolerate an engine splutter let alone a 'bang'. As such I do not drive a TVR at those times. Bosch, problem solved.
Anyway, getting back to the point, I think we should stop this car snobbery. So what, as to what someone drives, it just isn't important and it says a lot about the individual when they head down the route of having a dig at someone because they drive a different car. It's a very unpleasant trait.
It used to be that TVR owners stuck together, and I'm sure it is for the most part but there seems to be a new breed of owner who believes that owning the car actually maeks them a better person and allows them to look down on others. It doesn't. Relax, and get with the program along with everyone else.
Now, forgive me but I must return to my armchair and re-kindle my pipe.
You kids need to relax. Let's face facts if TVRs were French none of us would own one and we would all be on another forum mocking the poor delluded fools who bought these unreliable, tacky french jalopies.
But the fact is that they are British and so are we and as Brits we love a bit of character and adversity. And so we love our TVRs.
A TVR is a TVR is a TVR, we really don't want to head down the road of other marques and start looking down on older or less expensive models. People who do that probably have a spot of Burberry in their wardrobe, it's tres nouveau riche and should be avoided.
Now, let's look at some other facts, Wedges were unreliable, but then so were so many other marques back then. Griffs and Chimps were much better but then so were other marques by then but the most modern TVRs have argueably been a step backwards against the industry as a whole.
The increased use of complex electronics and an own built engine are almost certainly the cause.
If you love the marque then you will tolerate this but if you step away from this and look at it from a very cold perspective, it is unnacceptable to spend over £40K on a new car and run a significant chance of having engine issues before you have passed the 50K mark. Even for such a stressed engine.
I'm sure that time will resolve this and hopefully soon. I am sure that time has already improved the engine significantly and this is a work in progress.
What is important is that every owner, past, present and future has a different level of tolerance as to what they are prepared to put up with.
I will put up with almost anything on the Griff as it is a second car, I've had it 10 yrs and little has gone wrong. However, I will tolerate nothing but perfection on my everyday car. When I go from A to B during working hours, I won't even tolerate an engine splutter let alone a 'bang'. As such I do not drive a TVR at those times. Bosch, problem solved.
Anyway, getting back to the point, I think we should stop this car snobbery. So what, as to what someone drives, it just isn't important and it says a lot about the individual when they head down the route of having a dig at someone because they drive a different car. It's a very unpleasant trait.
It used to be that TVR owners stuck together, and I'm sure it is for the most part but there seems to be a new breed of owner who believes that owning the car actually maeks them a better person and allows them to look down on others. It doesn't. Relax, and get with the program along with everyone else.
Now, forgive me but I must return to my armchair and re-kindle my pipe.
Some good points, but also some missed. I've been around TVRs for a long time and I choose what I drive. I've also strayed from the marque. I am not a snob - I buy things with my eyes open and look after my car as it was bought with money hard earned.
Distorted views of problems with TVRs do more damage to my car than I do, and I can do little about it so I get wound up. I am not sure a thread like this will help.
For the record, the T350 is the best car I've owned. To know how highly that rates you would need to know me and the cars I've owned. The engine is the sweetest I have experienced, again praise indeed given what I have owned, and indeed still own. Its a 2004 car with an engine that was blue printed by the factory.
If it goes bang in the near future, I will be dissapointed and a little surprised. If I am told it will take months to repair, I will take it elsewhere or through the courts. I certainly won't suggest it should be scrapped. For those who have only experienced a SP 6 engine in these threads, you have missed out on one of life' experiences. When they are good, they are supreme..the flip side I have yet to find out.
edited cos I was wound up and made a misttok!
>> Edited by daftlad on Wednesday 1st September 15:02
Distorted views of problems with TVRs do more damage to my car than I do, and I can do little about it so I get wound up. I am not sure a thread like this will help.
For the record, the T350 is the best car I've owned. To know how highly that rates you would need to know me and the cars I've owned. The engine is the sweetest I have experienced, again praise indeed given what I have owned, and indeed still own. Its a 2004 car with an engine that was blue printed by the factory.
If it goes bang in the near future, I will be dissapointed and a little surprised. If I am told it will take months to repair, I will take it elsewhere or through the courts. I certainly won't suggest it should be scrapped. For those who have only experienced a SP 6 engine in these threads, you have missed out on one of life' experiences. When they are good, they are supreme..the flip side I have yet to find out.
edited cos I was wound up and made a misttok!
>> Edited by daftlad on Wednesday 1st September 15:02
Of course people are 'punchy'.
Most have spent circa £40k on a car, which is being slated by people who have never driven, never mind owned such a car.
Daftlad got it spot on, for which I feel the same. As long as you go into TVR ownership with your eyes open and look after the vehicle the good times far outweight the bad.
Most have spent circa £40k on a car, which is being slated by people who have never driven, never mind owned such a car.
Daftlad got it spot on, for which I feel the same. As long as you go into TVR ownership with your eyes open and look after the vehicle the good times far outweight the bad.
It's not that stressed an engine though is it...
Other sports car manufacturers are getting as much or more out of their engines, its just that the overall weight of their cars makes the performance comparison in TVR's favour, not because the engine is necessarily more powerful or more torquey than the competition.
I'm not going to knock TVR, but we do need to get less emotive and look at the facts to have any sort of rational debate.
as an example,
Jaguar XKR 4.0 L 370 bhp
Tuscan S 4.0 L 390 bhp (TVR bhp?)
BUT
Jaguar 215 BHP/tonne weight = 1750kg
Tvr 360 BHP/tonne weight = 1100kg
Sorry but the engine is a highly stressed race engine to get the power argument doesn't hold for me.
B
Other sports car manufacturers are getting as much or more out of their engines, its just that the overall weight of their cars makes the performance comparison in TVR's favour, not because the engine is necessarily more powerful or more torquey than the competition.
I'm not going to knock TVR, but we do need to get less emotive and look at the facts to have any sort of rational debate.
as an example,
Jaguar XKR 4.0 L 370 bhp
Tuscan S 4.0 L 390 bhp (TVR bhp?)
BUT
Jaguar 215 BHP/tonne weight = 1750kg
Tvr 360 BHP/tonne weight = 1100kg
Sorry but the engine is a highly stressed race engine to get the power argument doesn't hold for me.
B
SP6 figures are pretty spot on. Anyway tvr going backwards a bit is only following the trend of all manufactures, personally i feel they in comparisson (tvr) are not that bad. I sold my first tuscan to buy a brand new BMW M3 and came running back within six months, the tvr was far more reliable (in my case). anyway, why is it that all these threads starting, I personally am getting a bit bored of all the tvr this, tvr that.... Am i the only one?
Horse_Apple said:
Anyway, getting back to the point, I think we should stop this car snobbery. So what, as to what someone drives, it just isn't important and it says a lot about the individual when they head down the route of having a dig at someone because they drive a different car. It's a very unpleasant trait.
It used to be that TVR owners stuck together, and I'm sure it is for the most part but there seems to be a new breed of owner who believes that owning the car actually maeks them a better person and allows them to look down on others. It doesn't. Relax, and get with the program along with everyone else.
Hi Horse_Apple
I think it is worth me pointing out that if you were referring in whole or part to the comments about Mungo's Seat then that is probably not quite as it appears to be. People, including myself, have made jokes about Mungo's Seat not because it's some kind of poor man's sports car (in fact I believe it is rather good) but because it was amusing to exaggerate his stories about its performance. I hope that makes things a little clearer, but I do in general agree that car snobbery is just as bad as any other form of snobbery and is unworthy of TVR owners - that kind of thing is just not what the marque is about.
Bjwoods took the words out of my mouth...
I was thinking the exact same thing - what exactly is stressed about the engine? Other engines will produce more bhp per litre, others will produce more bhp per cylinder and others will happily rev just as high (and higher)
Usually these engines are in heavier cars so they dont have the same performance, but the work that the engine is required to do, it could be argued, is greater as they have to haul a much heavier car around.
Why do people always say it is a 'stressed engine' and therefore is more susceptible to abuse? What stresses are different (greater) in a TVR engine?
I was thinking the exact same thing - what exactly is stressed about the engine? Other engines will produce more bhp per litre, others will produce more bhp per cylinder and others will happily rev just as high (and higher)
Usually these engines are in heavier cars so they dont have the same performance, but the work that the engine is required to do, it could be argued, is greater as they have to haul a much heavier car around.
Why do people always say it is a 'stressed engine' and therefore is more susceptible to abuse? What stresses are different (greater) in a TVR engine?
daftlad said:
Some good points, but also some missed. I've been around TVRs for a long time and I choose what I drive. I've also strayed from the marque. I am not a snob - I buy things with my eyes open and look after my car as it was bought with money hard earned.
Distorted views of problems with TVRs do more damage to my car than I do, and I can do little about it so I get wound up. I am not sure a thread like this will help.
For the record, the T350 is the best car I've owned. To know how highly that rates you would need to know me and the cars I've owned. The engine is the sweetest I have experienced, again praise indeed given what I have owned, and indeed still own. Its a 2004 car with an engine that was blue printed by the factory.
If it goes bang in the near future, I will be dissapointed and a little surprised. If I am told it will take months to repair, I will take it elsewhere or through the courts. I certainly won't suggest it should be scrapped. For those who have only experienced a SP 6 engine in these threads, you have missed out on one of life' experiences. When they are good, they are supreme..the flip side I have yet to find out.
edited cos I was wound up and made a misttok!
>> Edited by daftlad on Wednesday 1st September 15:02
I agree with you.
I've been tempted to trade the Griff in on a few occasions over the last couple of years but it is a very good, solid work horse and has done the bulk of its depreciation now, so it is a tough descision.
I think the SP6 is an absolutely cracking engine and it fills me with hope to read your comments on your 2004 version.
It took the Griff about 4 years to get most major bugs sorted so it seems to be a quicker process these days.
The 350 is a beautiful wagon and if the 04's prove good then I can see myself picking one up in a year or two.
plotloss said:
Not many cars make 100bhp/litre NA.
But the S2000 does and that seems fairly reliable.
The stress does have something to do with it but its not the be all and end all IMHO.
The key thing is that most similar capacity engines require forced induction to achieve TVR specific power levels and that comparing a 3.6l or 4.0l engine with an engine half the size (e.g. S2000) is not valid because it is easier to get higher specific power outputs the smaller an engine gets. A fairer comparison for the Tuscan S engine (which puts out 400bhp not 390bhp in its latest form) is the Ferrari 360 engine, despite the massive gap in cost. They have broadly similar specific power outputs if my memory serves me correctly though I think the Ferrari's is higher, but I know that more than 400bhp has been extracted from the 4.0l S6 too. Also, it's worth bearing in mind that it is easy to get high power with low torque, getting both is difficult, so perhaps a comparison of torque curves would also be useful.
Antwerpman said:
Bjwoods took the words out of my mouth...
I was thinking the exact same thing - what exactly is stressed about the engine? Other engines will produce more bhp per litre, others will produce more bhp per cylinder and others will happily rev just as high (and higher)
Usually these engines are in heavier cars so they dont have the same performance, but the work that the engine is required to do, it could be argued, is greater as they have to haul a much heavier car around.
Why do people always say it is a 'stressed engine' and therefore is more susceptible to abuse? What stresses are different (greater) in a TVR engine?
Antwerp, I posted a reply to this just after you posted (see above/below depending on how you have PH configured!
).Antwerpman said:
Bjwoods took the words out of my mouth...
I was thinking the exact same thing - what exactly is stressed about the engine? Other engines will produce more bhp per litre, others will produce more bhp per cylinder and others will happily rev just as high (and higher)
Usually these engines are in heavier cars so they dont have the same performance, but the work that the engine is required to do, it could be argued, is greater as they have to haul a much heavier car around.
Why do people always say it is a 'stressed engine' and therefore is more susceptible to abuse? What stresses are different (greater) in a TVR engine?
OK, it is stressed by comparison to the average cooking engine, like a 2L merc and so it cannot be expected to put in anywhere near the mileage that a German Minicab can.
However, other similar engines put out the same or better BHP per Litre and last longer, but if you look at the likes of Honda and BMW they spend a touch more money on development
I think the SP6 cost 40 B&H, a 6 pack of Adnams and weekend break for 2 in Bognor to design and build when compared to the lumps in the S2000 or M3, which must have cost 10's of £M and that is possibly where the huge difference lies, the simple fact that TVR's clients finance and manage the testing program for them, rather than having a finished product handed over.
plotloss said:
So you cant compare on engine capacity but you can compare a straight six with a V8?
The mind boggles...
Hmmm... a touch of unnecessary sarcasm there Matt?
You have a point about engine configuration, my mind was wandering and I was starting to think about the AJP8 towards the end then decided not to comment on it. Regardless, the point still stands that you cannot directly draw comparisons between a torque-weak, power-rich 2000cc engine and a 3600cc/4000cc engine which has both power and toqure, particularly in Tuscan S guise. Comparing specific power of engines of similar capacity is more sensible simply because we always want more power and we should be choosing then best configuration to get that, bearing in mind the various other engineering constraints.
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