Now the trouble starts… it won’t start
Discussion
My monaro has been running perfectly. No signs of poor starting.
Yesterday morning though, just a click. Sigh. Took the Golf to work instead.
Last night, volts 12.1 and just kept clicking. Put a booster pack on it, no difference. Left it connected a while, 12.4v, click, click, turned over perfectly and started perfectly. Parked it inside the driveway so I could get at it.
This morning, removed battery and charged it. Degreased and cleaned up all the connections and terminals.
Refitted the battery, click, click, click.
Put booster pack on, click.
Put a battery optimiser on, it was finished its charge cycle within 5 minutes, click.
I’ve noticed that since refitting the battery, when I lock the car up the drivers seat racks all the way back. Still holds the memory of my saved position if I press the 1.
There’s nothing untoward on the dash. Says system check ok.
Can’t tell in daylight whether the lights are dimming but I suspect they’re not.
My thinking is immobiliser. Is there an immobiliser light on the cluster? Not noticed one.
Was also thinking try bypassing the clutch switch, as it seems to react the same regardless whether the clutch is down or not.
Any other ideas or simple checks or common faults?
Yesterday morning though, just a click. Sigh. Took the Golf to work instead.
Last night, volts 12.1 and just kept clicking. Put a booster pack on it, no difference. Left it connected a while, 12.4v, click, click, turned over perfectly and started perfectly. Parked it inside the driveway so I could get at it.
This morning, removed battery and charged it. Degreased and cleaned up all the connections and terminals.
Refitted the battery, click, click, click.
Put booster pack on, click.
Put a battery optimiser on, it was finished its charge cycle within 5 minutes, click.
I’ve noticed that since refitting the battery, when I lock the car up the drivers seat racks all the way back. Still holds the memory of my saved position if I press the 1.
There’s nothing untoward on the dash. Says system check ok.
Can’t tell in daylight whether the lights are dimming but I suspect they’re not.
My thinking is immobiliser. Is there an immobiliser light on the cluster? Not noticed one.
Was also thinking try bypassing the clutch switch, as it seems to react the same regardless whether the clutch is down or not.
Any other ideas or simple checks or common faults?
on the dash from memory is a red key that lights up if it’s an immobiliser issue , put the key in the ignition , turn the ignition don’t try and start it , push unlock on the key then start it , try this with your spare key if that’s not worked , red key light on dash will stay on if immobiliser is staying on , second thing is starter motor failing , put car in gear rock it back wards and forwards may free up the starter motor then try starting it , other option is ignition on try and by pass the starter motor solenoid with a screw driver , other options give the starter motor a hit with a hammer , other possibility is battery is starting to fail and not got enough grunt to start it , batteries go from fine to dead quite quickly
Thanks guys.
Tried the spare key, no difference. No little key light.
Tried rocking it in gear, nope.
Tried boosting it from the Golf - 620Ah battery bought this year. No difference.
The battery looks a few years old. I’ll see if the Golf battery posts will fit the monaro battery terminals as I know the golf battery is good.
It’s gone downhill very quickly and I don’t mind if it is a failed battery, but if it’s not starting when boosting it from the jump pack or via jump leads, it makes me think it’s something else.
I’ve never tried it, or noticed, but if you try starting it with the clutch up, does the immobiliser lock warning light come on?
Tried the spare key, no difference. No little key light.
Tried rocking it in gear, nope.
Tried boosting it from the Golf - 620Ah battery bought this year. No difference.
The battery looks a few years old. I’ll see if the Golf battery posts will fit the monaro battery terminals as I know the golf battery is good.
It’s gone downhill very quickly and I don’t mind if it is a failed battery, but if it’s not starting when boosting it from the jump pack or via jump leads, it makes me think it’s something else.
I’ve never tried it, or noticed, but if you try starting it with the clutch up, does the immobiliser lock warning light come on?
FNG said:
I’ll see if the Golf battery posts will fit the monaro battery terminals as I know the golf battery is good
Will obviously depend on the mk/model of golf but I know one of the golf batteries is exactly the same as a monaro as I sourced my replacement from my pal at a vw dealers and was a direct replacement Battery changed for a known good one (74Ah, 680CCA) and no difference.
Small voltage drop on turning the key.
Starter relay is working correctly so I’m assuming there isn’t an immobiliser issue.
So, starter motor. Can’t see the damn thing from above so will get underneath.
Had a Mk1 escort that needed a dunt with a hammer every time I drove it. Oh for Mk1 escort engine bay access, and parts prices! But not so much the performance or noise…
Small voltage drop on turning the key.
Starter relay is working correctly so I’m assuming there isn’t an immobiliser issue.
So, starter motor. Can’t see the damn thing from above so will get underneath.
Had a Mk1 escort that needed a dunt with a hammer every time I drove it. Oh for Mk1 escort engine bay access, and parts prices! But not so much the performance or noise…
Added an earth wire, no difference.
Got underneath and can still barely see the starter. Can't get hand access to remove the clip-on heatshield. I don't think there is even enough room laterally for the heatshield to come off the starter. The RH manifold is thoroughly in the way, could well have to be removed.
I can't remember now, but it was also looking like even if I could get the shield off, and get the wiring off, I'd need to disconnect the column and drop the rack to extract the motor.
So it's going to a garage to sort. I suspect they'll take the manifold off. It's beyond what I'm prepared to take on.
Next, find a garage and work out how I can get it to them.
Got underneath and can still barely see the starter. Can't get hand access to remove the clip-on heatshield. I don't think there is even enough room laterally for the heatshield to come off the starter. The RH manifold is thoroughly in the way, could well have to be removed.
I can't remember now, but it was also looking like even if I could get the shield off, and get the wiring off, I'd need to disconnect the column and drop the rack to extract the motor.
So it's going to a garage to sort. I suspect they'll take the manifold off. It's beyond what I'm prepared to take on.
Next, find a garage and work out how I can get it to them.
FNG said:
Added an earth wire, no difference.
Got underneath and can still barely see the starter. Can't get hand access to remove the clip-on heatshield. I don't think there is even enough room laterally for the heatshield to come off the starter. The RH manifold is thoroughly in the way, could well have to be removed.
I can't remember now, but it was also looking like even if I could get the shield off, and get the wiring off, I'd need to disconnect the column and drop the rack to extract the motor.
So it's going to a garage to sort. I suspect they'll take the manifold off. It's beyond what I'm prepared to take on.
Next, find a garage and work out how I can get it to them.
What's your driveway like / whereabouts are you? I'd be happy to lend a hand if you're vaguely near Northampton (J15 M1). I had to pop my starter off and on briefly, admittedly I've got long tube headers so maybe a bit more access, but could bring some tools over and lend a hand of a weekend?Got underneath and can still barely see the starter. Can't get hand access to remove the clip-on heatshield. I don't think there is even enough room laterally for the heatshield to come off the starter. The RH manifold is thoroughly in the way, could well have to be removed.
I can't remember now, but it was also looking like even if I could get the shield off, and get the wiring off, I'd need to disconnect the column and drop the rack to extract the motor.
So it's going to a garage to sort. I suspect they'll take the manifold off. It's beyond what I'm prepared to take on.
Next, find a garage and work out how I can get it to them.
Steering column / rack etc. is an easy one to drop, it sounds like work but it's 3 bolts and all lines back up easily so really not a big faff, but appreciate 'steering' can be a bit daunting to mess with.
I really appreciate that offer. I'll have a think on it. Next weekend is mostly booked out to "family s
t" and it's booked into the local garage for next Tuesday so my main issue may just be getting it started to drive it over there... a mate has offered to "pop over" from Nottingham to help, it's only a 3 hour 120 mile round trip 
If I'd been able to get the heatshield off I'd have been happier to have a go at the rest, but even that appears impossible to get enough pressure onto, either from front or below. And is pretty tight to the inside face of the manifold so am not sure it would actually disengage, let alone be able to refit. Looked rather like the manifold would have to come off. Sounds defeatist, I'm not fazed by tightly packaged stuff but it really is inaccessible.
The rack itself looks simple enough, 2 bolts and enough slack on the pipes to drop it behind the subframe, but I don't think I've ever split a column from a rack without it being a bd of a job! If it just falls out once the rack is free to drop (?) I reckon I'll have a crack this week and see if it improves access enough to at least bell out the starter wiring and make sure it's the motor, not the wires.
As for the driveway, plenty of space but my life would not be worth tuppence if I knacker the paving!
t" and it's booked into the local garage for next Tuesday so my main issue may just be getting it started to drive it over there... a mate has offered to "pop over" from Nottingham to help, it's only a 3 hour 120 mile round trip If I'd been able to get the heatshield off I'd have been happier to have a go at the rest, but even that appears impossible to get enough pressure onto, either from front or below. And is pretty tight to the inside face of the manifold so am not sure it would actually disengage, let alone be able to refit. Looked rather like the manifold would have to come off. Sounds defeatist, I'm not fazed by tightly packaged stuff but it really is inaccessible.
The rack itself looks simple enough, 2 bolts and enough slack on the pipes to drop it behind the subframe, but I don't think I've ever split a column from a rack without it being a b
d of a job! If it just falls out once the rack is free to drop (?) I reckon I'll have a crack this week and see if it improves access enough to at least bell out the starter wiring and make sure it's the motor, not the wires.As for the driveway, plenty of space but my life would not be worth tuppence if I knacker the paving!
FNG said:
I really appreciate that offer. I'll have a think on it. Next weekend is mostly booked out to "family st" and it's booked into the local garage for next Tuesday so my main issue may just be getting it started to drive it over there... a mate has offered to "pop over" from Nottingham to help, it's only a 3 hour 120 mile round trip
If I'd been able to get the heatshield off I'd have been happier to have a go at the rest, but even that appears impossible to get enough pressure onto, either from front or below. And is pretty tight to the inside face of the manifold so am not sure it would actually disengage, let alone be able to refit. Looked rather like the manifold would have to come off. Sounds defeatist, I'm not fazed by tightly packaged stuff but it really is inaccessible.
The rack itself looks simple enough, 2 bolts and enough slack on the pipes to drop it behind the subframe, but I don't think I've ever split a column from a rack without it being a bd of a job! If it just falls out once the rack is free to drop (?) I reckon I'll have a crack this week and see if it improves access enough to at least bell out the starter wiring and make sure it's the motor, not the wires.
As for the driveway, plenty of space but my life would not be worth tuppence if I knacker the paving!
The heatshield is awkward enough to get off with the starter in your hands so may not be indicative of the overall difficulty! t" and it's booked into the local garage for next Tuesday so my main issue may just be getting it started to drive it over there... a mate has offered to "pop over" from Nottingham to help, it's only a 3 hour 120 mile round trip If I'd been able to get the heatshield off I'd have been happier to have a go at the rest, but even that appears impossible to get enough pressure onto, either from front or below. And is pretty tight to the inside face of the manifold so am not sure it would actually disengage, let alone be able to refit. Looked rather like the manifold would have to come off. Sounds defeatist, I'm not fazed by tightly packaged stuff but it really is inaccessible.
The rack itself looks simple enough, 2 bolts and enough slack on the pipes to drop it behind the subframe, but I don't think I've ever split a column from a rack without it being a b
d of a job! If it just falls out once the rack is free to drop (?) I reckon I'll have a crack this week and see if it improves access enough to at least bell out the starter wiring and make sure it's the motor, not the wires.As for the driveway, plenty of space but my life would not be worth tuppence if I knacker the paving!
Can just undo the two bolts for the starter from underneath and that'll let it wiggle about more. It'll be awkard to get to the connectors whatever you do, may need some needle nose pliers and a lot of swearing
The rack is 2 bolts as you say and drops easily. The column itself is a single nut, lock the steering wheel in advance so it doesn't move. Once the nut is off, bolt slides out, and then just tap the upper half of the column off the rack, it sort of clamps around it, it'll make plenty of sense once you can see it.
Undoing the manifold isn't a big deal, although can guess perhaps some of the bolts are pretty corroded / awkward to get to as the ABS bracket / module is in the way... May well find that just loosening the manifold enough that it'll wobble out of the way may give enough clearance, is it the standard exhaust manifold?
Great info thank you.
It's got di fillippo manifolds, which near as I can tell seem to have been designed to place the pipe from #3 right next to the heatshield!
I've just taken this pic - can barely get the phone down there - and can see there's absolutely no chance I can get that heatshield off before the starter comes out.
Access from top is zero - can't even see the shield
I was really wanting to get the terminals off before loosening the motor - at least I can access those two bolts easily - and will probably have another stab at those with some long extensions and a liberal dose of heartfelt swearing.
I guess my really big issue is once I've started, I will need to finish. I've no idea how I would get terminals back on when refitting. I can get fingers on one, touch the end of another, and can't get to the third at all. How does that go with even offering up the motor, when I can only just touch the end of it.
So I need to know I have a route to completing it before I start it!
Writing it down and thinking it through, yeah it could well need the manifold off. Where's my plusgas...
It's got di fillippo manifolds, which near as I can tell seem to have been designed to place the pipe from #3 right next to the heatshield!
I've just taken this pic - can barely get the phone down there - and can see there's absolutely no chance I can get that heatshield off before the starter comes out.
Access from top is zero - can't even see the shield
I was really wanting to get the terminals off before loosening the motor - at least I can access those two bolts easily - and will probably have another stab at those with some long extensions and a liberal dose of heartfelt swearing.
I guess my really big issue is once I've started, I will need to finish. I've no idea how I would get terminals back on when refitting. I can get fingers on one, touch the end of another, and can't get to the third at all. How does that go with even offering up the motor, when I can only just touch the end of it.
So I need to know I have a route to completing it before I start it!
Writing it down and thinking it through, yeah it could well need the manifold off. Where's my plusgas...
Edited by FNG on Monday 26th September 14:55
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