Ban on the sale of ICE from 2030
Discussion
The ICE ban in 2030 might not even happen, in any case it's got nothing to do with older cars.
Politicians are here today and gone tomorrow, there could be all kinds of changes in the next ten years.
The big worry is extra taxation on fuel and roads, I think we really need to look out for that one.
If I have my Monaro in ten years time I'll still be driving it that's for sure.
If the Goverment says it's illegal to do so I guess I'll listen to what ever crap they come out with.....and ignore it.
Politicians are here today and gone tomorrow, there could be all kinds of changes in the next ten years.
The big worry is extra taxation on fuel and roads, I think we really need to look out for that one.
If I have my Monaro in ten years time I'll still be driving it that's for sure.
If the Goverment says it's illegal to do so I guess I'll listen to what ever crap they come out with.....and ignore it.
I imagine (and let’s face it, anyone’s guess is as good as another’s) in the next 20 years petrol cars will still be about as the last of the petrol/derv cars hit 10 years old. After that I think they will become like the steam train. All daily rides will be electric power and the average ic engine stuff will become food cans. Leaving us with the interesting petrol stuff being saved and allowed to be used for fun despite it being bad for the environment just like steam trains are now! And let’s face it, even a tree hugger loves a steam train....
Unless battery tech makes a big jump forward there will still be too much need for ic powered stuff to make it unavailable. Site Generators? Plant machinery? Heavy goods? Even light commercials are a long way from being usable in electrical form.
On the subject, as a guide to our current reality. A good mate of mine has had a Tesla 3 for a few months now. It’s range is up to 260~ miles. So far he is averaging 170 miles from a full charge. Basically it means that once a week when he has to do a site visit for work he has to take his wife’s 320d. Thing need to improve quite a bit yet.
Unless battery tech makes a big jump forward there will still be too much need for ic powered stuff to make it unavailable. Site Generators? Plant machinery? Heavy goods? Even light commercials are a long way from being usable in electrical form.
On the subject, as a guide to our current reality. A good mate of mine has had a Tesla 3 for a few months now. It’s range is up to 260~ miles. So far he is averaging 170 miles from a full charge. Basically it means that once a week when he has to do a site visit for work he has to take his wife’s 320d. Thing need to improve quite a bit yet.
It's a load of aul ballix.
FFS they'll still be doing lockdowns in 2030 at this rate lol
It would take an absolute miracle breakthrough in battery technology AND many billions investment in the electricity supply system to cope with charging all these electric vehicles they hope there will be.
FFS they'll still be doing lockdowns in 2030 at this rate lol
It would take an absolute miracle breakthrough in battery technology AND many billions investment in the electricity supply system to cope with charging all these electric vehicles they hope there will be.
mfp4073 said:
The ICE ban in 2030 might not even happen, in any case it's got nothing to do with older cars.
Politicians are here today and gone tomorrow, there could be all kinds of changes in the next ten years.
The big worry is extra taxation on fuel and roads, I think we really need to look out for that one.
If I have my Monaro in ten years time I'll still be driving it that's for sure.
If the Goverment says it's illegal to do so I guess I'll listen to what ever crap they come out with.....and ignore it.
It would be moronic to force even more taxation on petrol etc. Because as they're already realising...when people stop using such fuels, it costs the government billions in lost revenue. As many have done during recent lockdowns and more people working from home.Politicians are here today and gone tomorrow, there could be all kinds of changes in the next ten years.
The big worry is extra taxation on fuel and roads, I think we really need to look out for that one.
If I have my Monaro in ten years time I'll still be driving it that's for sure.
If the Goverment says it's illegal to do so I guess I'll listen to what ever crap they come out with.....and ignore it.
So simply increasing that will not work.
The burden of funding the country needs taken away from motorist, and needs spread out over the entire population, whether by higher income tax etc, but at the same time all extortionate and unfair motoring related taxes need abolished.
No new diesel or petrol from 2030, well I can't see emergency vehicles being electric only, they'd be abandoned panda cop cars everywhere that had gone flat, as for ambulances with all onboard equipment that rely on electric to work, it's just not realistic expecting batteries to power that lot and move them too. They'd have to be hybrids at the very least.
stevieturbo said:
The burden of funding the country needs taken away from motorist, and needs spread out over the entire population, whether by higher income tax etc, but at the same time all extortionate and unfair motoring related taxes need abolished.
Yea ,like that's gonna happen. If you cant afford a car these days, you are on benefits, or a diiveroo moped rider. The motorist IS the entire population. Similarly revenue from the motorist is already not a lot compared to say VAT or corporation tax , and income tax.
Not to be Rude or anything, but if you are bowling about in a big V8 and moaning about the tax you pay for that, you need to have a long think about stuff.
For me it’s got to be devaluation. I didn’t by my car as an investment or any others for that matter in my collection but there will come a time when these cars no matter how classic or rare will be frowned upon. People due to peer pressure will walk away from IC engines and transport ,more worried about what people think rather than their own desire.I personally believe rare cars like ours and classics will eventually be licensed to be on the road for short periods of time possibly limited to annual mileage restrictions. Don’t forget that every government has signed up to decreasing their carbon footprint and when doing this becomes harder and more difficult to achieve these targets they will go for the easy option the internal combustion engine just to make the figures balance along with all the other governments around the world.The last country to conform will be the USA as they have oil and petrol running through their veins, oil is a massive money maker for the the American purse.
fred bloggs said:
Yea ,like that's gonna happen. If you cant afford a car these days, you are on benefits, or a diiveroo moped rider. The motorist IS the entire population.
Similarly revenue from the motorist is already not a lot compared to say VAT or corporation tax , and income tax.
Not to be Rude or anything, but if you are bowling about in a big V8 and moaning about the tax you pay for that, you need to have a long think about stuff.
No, motorists are not the entire population.Similarly revenue from the motorist is already not a lot compared to say VAT or corporation tax , and income tax.
Not to be Rude or anything, but if you are bowling about in a big V8 and moaning about the tax you pay for that, you need to have a long think about stuff.
And do you think someones hobby should be massively taxed ? Cars are a hobby. What other hobby suffers the same level of taxation as this ?
Golf ? Football ? Fishing ?
Anyone who thinks the levels of taxation and burden placed on motorists, and especially car enthusiasts is acceptable need to do a hell of a lot more than have a long think about stuff.
The environmental impact very low numbers (relatively speaking) of enthusiast owned 'classic' cars V8's or otherwise will be/is absolutely negligible in the grand scheme of things. And the government experts know this.
I genuinely don't think the government will be looking to hunt us all down, or excessively 'tax' our 'classic' cars. The low volume (again relatively), just won't bring any meaningful revenue.
The run of mill stuff is a self solving problem, the 'average' euro box will just die out, get traded in, scrapped etc.. The general masses don't want to drive 'old' cars for varying reasons, one being snobbery and they'll happily jump into the latest mainstream car just because its new. The rest will follow as these new hybrid/electric cars become affordable on the used market and the 'norm'.
I think the government will focus the revenue income from these motorists. They'll have too. A few thousand old 'classics' versus millions of hybrid/electric on the road.
Look at the classic car scene now. Cars turning 40 years old become tax exempt and also MOT exempt. The government aren't chasing this scene now, why would they start? Simply because in truth the numbers involved are just so low.
I genuinely don't think the government will be looking to hunt us all down, or excessively 'tax' our 'classic' cars. The low volume (again relatively), just won't bring any meaningful revenue.
The run of mill stuff is a self solving problem, the 'average' euro box will just die out, get traded in, scrapped etc.. The general masses don't want to drive 'old' cars for varying reasons, one being snobbery and they'll happily jump into the latest mainstream car just because its new. The rest will follow as these new hybrid/electric cars become affordable on the used market and the 'norm'.
I think the government will focus the revenue income from these motorists. They'll have too. A few thousand old 'classics' versus millions of hybrid/electric on the road.
Look at the classic car scene now. Cars turning 40 years old become tax exempt and also MOT exempt. The government aren't chasing this scene now, why would they start? Simply because in truth the numbers involved are just so low.
dazvxr said:
No new diesel or petrol from 2030, well I can't see emergency vehicles being electric only, they'd be abandoned panda cop cars everywhere that had gone flat, as for ambulances with all onboard equipment that rely on electric to work, it's just not realistic expecting batteries to power that lot and move them too. They'd have to be hybrids at the very least.
I'd like to think that's right but they're already using all electric ambulances in the West Midlands Ambulance service, however it's range is only 110 miles with a charge time of 4 hours 25 mins it needs a lot of improvement. By 2030 they'll work it out i guess. God how dull life would be without petrol
Lincsls1 said:
The environmental impact very low numbers (relatively speaking) of enthusiast owned 'classic' cars V8's or otherwise will be/is absolutely negligible in the grand scheme of things. And the government experts know this.
I genuinely don't think the government will be looking to hunt us all down, or excessively 'tax' our 'classic' cars. The low volume (again relatively), just won't bring any meaningful revenue.
The run of mill stuff is a self solving problem, the 'average' euro box will just die out, get traded in, scrapped etc.. The general masses don't want to drive 'old' cars for varying reasons, one being snobbery and they'll happily jump into the latest mainstream car just because its new. The rest will follow as these new hybrid/electric cars become affordable on the used market and the 'norm'.
I think the government will focus the revenue income from these motorists. They'll have too. A few thousand old 'classics' versus millions of hybrid/electric on the road.
Look at the classic car scene now. Cars turning 40 years old become tax exempt and also MOT exempt. The government aren't chasing this scene now, why would they start? Simply because in truth the numbers involved are just so low.
The single biggest source of pollution on the entire planet, all over the planet....and the elephant in the room everyone chooses to ignore....are simply humans.I genuinely don't think the government will be looking to hunt us all down, or excessively 'tax' our 'classic' cars. The low volume (again relatively), just won't bring any meaningful revenue.
The run of mill stuff is a self solving problem, the 'average' euro box will just die out, get traded in, scrapped etc.. The general masses don't want to drive 'old' cars for varying reasons, one being snobbery and they'll happily jump into the latest mainstream car just because its new. The rest will follow as these new hybrid/electric cars become affordable on the used market and the 'norm'.
I think the government will focus the revenue income from these motorists. They'll have too. A few thousand old 'classics' versus millions of hybrid/electric on the road.
Look at the classic car scene now. Cars turning 40 years old become tax exempt and also MOT exempt. The government aren't chasing this scene now, why would they start? Simply because in truth the numbers involved are just so low.
Until there is a massive reduction in numbers, all their false propaganda around "saving the planet" and other such BS, well it is just that.
As long as humans are taking over the entire planet, destroying everything as they go...really doesn't matter whether they claim it's cars, plastic, farts etc etc the common denominator is still the same.
Too many people on the planet.
It's all very well reducing one form of pollution by a miniscule percentage....but when there's twice as many people on the planet, it's still twice as much waste and destruction.
They're all trying to push for battery powered cars, and I'm sure in some cases they will work extremely well...but batteries are the next oil, plastic, nuclear. They will be the next massive waste/pollution problem when nobody knows what to do with them when they're done in 10, 15, 20 years and people are dumping them everywhere.
stevieturbo said:
The single biggest source of pollution on the entire planet, all over the planet....and the elephant in the room everyone chooses to ignore....are simply humans.
Until there is a massive reduction in numbers, all their false propaganda around "saving the planet" and other such BS, well it is just that.
As long as humans are taking over the entire planet, destroying everything as they go...really doesn't matter whether they claim it's cars, plastic, farts etc etc the common denominator is still the same.
Too many people on the planet.
It's all very well reducing one form of pollution by a miniscule percentage....but when there's twice as many people on the planet, it's still twice as much waste and destruction.
They're all trying to push for battery powered cars, and I'm sure in some cases they will work extremely well...but batteries are the next oil, plastic, nuclear. They will be the next massive waste/pollution problem when nobody knows what to do with them when they're done in 10, 15, 20 years and people are dumping them everywhere.
Nail on the head! I've been singing this tune for years! The single biggest thing a person can do to reduce his/her carbon foot print is to not have children.Until there is a massive reduction in numbers, all their false propaganda around "saving the planet" and other such BS, well it is just that.
As long as humans are taking over the entire planet, destroying everything as they go...really doesn't matter whether they claim it's cars, plastic, farts etc etc the common denominator is still the same.
Too many people on the planet.
It's all very well reducing one form of pollution by a miniscule percentage....but when there's twice as many people on the planet, it's still twice as much waste and destruction.
They're all trying to push for battery powered cars, and I'm sure in some cases they will work extremely well...but batteries are the next oil, plastic, nuclear. They will be the next massive waste/pollution problem when nobody knows what to do with them when they're done in 10, 15, 20 years and people are dumping them everywhere.
And you're right, its a problem being ignored because its too difficult to deal with.
stevieturbo said:
Lincsls1 said:
The environmental impact very low numbers (relatively speaking) of enthusiast owned 'classic' cars V8's or otherwise will be/is absolutely negligible in the grand scheme of things. And the government experts know this.
I genuinely don't think the government will be looking to hunt us all down, or excessively 'tax' our 'classic' cars. The low volume (again relatively), just won't bring any meaningful revenue.
The run of mill stuff is a self solving problem, the 'average' euro box will just die out, get traded in, scrapped etc.. The general masses don't want to drive 'old' cars for varying reasons, one being snobbery and they'll happily jump into the latest mainstream car just because its new. The rest will follow as these new hybrid/electric cars become affordable on the used market and the 'norm'.
I think the government will focus the revenue income from these motorists. They'll have too. A few thousand old 'classics' versus millions of hybrid/electric on the road.
Look at the classic car scene now. Cars turning 40 years old become tax exempt and also MOT exempt. The government aren't chasing this scene now, why would they start? Simply because in truth the numbers involved are just so low.
The single biggest source of pollution on the entire planet, all over the planet....and the elephant in the room everyone chooses to ignore....are simply humans.I genuinely don't think the government will be looking to hunt us all down, or excessively 'tax' our 'classic' cars. The low volume (again relatively), just won't bring any meaningful revenue.
The run of mill stuff is a self solving problem, the 'average' euro box will just die out, get traded in, scrapped etc.. The general masses don't want to drive 'old' cars for varying reasons, one being snobbery and they'll happily jump into the latest mainstream car just because its new. The rest will follow as these new hybrid/electric cars become affordable on the used market and the 'norm'.
I think the government will focus the revenue income from these motorists. They'll have too. A few thousand old 'classics' versus millions of hybrid/electric on the road.
Look at the classic car scene now. Cars turning 40 years old become tax exempt and also MOT exempt. The government aren't chasing this scene now, why would they start? Simply because in truth the numbers involved are just so low.
Until there is a massive reduction in numbers, all their false propaganda around "saving the planet" and other such BS, well it is just that.
As long as humans are taking over the entire planet, destroying everything as they go...really doesn't matter whether they claim it's cars, plastic, farts etc etc the common denominator is still the same.
Too many people on the planet.
It's all very well reducing one form of pollution by a miniscule percentage....but when there's twice as many people on the planet, it's still twice as much waste and destruction.
They're all trying to push for battery powered cars, and I'm sure in some cases they will work extremely well...but batteries are the next oil, plastic, nuclear. They will be the next massive waste/pollution problem when nobody knows what to do with them when they're done in 10, 15, 20 years and people are dumping them everywhere.
If I do have to pay more tax than a Kia I’m not bothered.
Flying aircraft is also an expensive hobby. Just Because cars are a hobby, doesn’t mean is should be tax free, I mean you can still have a fun car that isn’t quite so environmentally damaging ,like a caterham , if that’s what you want.
Batteries are not the answer, for sure.
Minimising commuting and weight reduction of personal vehicles for such use is the way forward.
fred bloggs said:
I’m with you there. But legislators don’t differentiate between a 4.0 petrol VW tourag and a HSV , they just see the ppm of carbon monoxide.
If I do have to pay more tax than a Kia I’m not bothered.
Flying aircraft is also an expensive hobby. Just Because cars are a hobby, doesn’t mean is should be tax free, I mean you can still have a fun car that isn’t quite so environmentally damaging ,like a caterham , if that’s what you want.
Batteries are not the answer, for sure.
Minimising commuting and weight reduction of personal vehicles for such use is the way forward.
Jet fuel is cheaper than road fuel !!! lolIf I do have to pay more tax than a Kia I’m not bothered.
Flying aircraft is also an expensive hobby. Just Because cars are a hobby, doesn’t mean is should be tax free, I mean you can still have a fun car that isn’t quite so environmentally damaging ,like a caterham , if that’s what you want.
Batteries are not the answer, for sure.
Minimising commuting and weight reduction of personal vehicles for such use is the way forward.
And who's to say a V8 is any less "damaging" than a Caterham ?
And weight reduction...there's a massive irony with battery cars...where they all weigh massive.
Although Max_Torque over on the tech section did do a good write up that weights of cars are pretty irrelevant in terms of emissions and even efficiency.
But on the flip side, I say they are more dangerous to anyone they crash into, and they will be much harder on road surfaces in terms of wear and tear.
Hopefully they'll sort the hydrogen to use as a fuel, as it seems a good option.
That said, EV's in terms of outright performance, can be superb.
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