Gearbox replacement options!...
Discussion
Anyone know what the going rate for a new g/box is for the Monaro.
I believe my 04VXR uses the TUET2100 that all CV8 cars use. That being said, I believe the 05VXR TUET2066 box will also direct fit (just has shorter ratios).
Failing that, anyone know where a good used box might be available?
Other advice and knowledge welcome!
My pilot bearing has failed, and screwed the input shaft. Common (ish) issue I believe.
I believe my 04VXR uses the TUET2100 that all CV8 cars use. That being said, I believe the 05VXR TUET2066 box will also direct fit (just has shorter ratios).
Failing that, anyone know where a good used box might be available?
Other advice and knowledge welcome!
My pilot bearing has failed, and screwed the input shaft. Common (ish) issue I believe.
Oh dear, sorry to here that.
I would probably ask Monkfish1 or 2 ( Andy or Roger at Pedders UK ) for some advice before you do anything they will tell you what really works and what doesn't.
There is the option of getting a used gearbox if you were lucky enough to find a good one, maybe ask speed4U who is on here now and again.
Other Thant that it's rebuild your old one if the parts can be sourced in the Uk.
Try looking on some Americans sites and see what they fit to the GTO these days.
I seem to recall a T56 Magum was a good option. Also I think someone offered the TR6060 rations ( Camaro) fitted inside the casing of a T56?
As yours is a rare HSV the gear ratios will have to be matched to the diff which might cause a few issues.
The other options that spring to mind would be Walkinshaw's and Parts World performance, or AAS and see if they could bring in a new gearbox for you, probably a fair bit cheaper than the other two.
Best of luck
John
I would probably ask Monkfish1 or 2 ( Andy or Roger at Pedders UK ) for some advice before you do anything they will tell you what really works and what doesn't.
There is the option of getting a used gearbox if you were lucky enough to find a good one, maybe ask speed4U who is on here now and again.
Other Thant that it's rebuild your old one if the parts can be sourced in the Uk.
Try looking on some Americans sites and see what they fit to the GTO these days.
I seem to recall a T56 Magum was a good option. Also I think someone offered the TR6060 rations ( Camaro) fitted inside the casing of a T56?
As yours is a rare HSV the gear ratios will have to be matched to the diff which might cause a few issues.
The other options that spring to mind would be Walkinshaw's and Parts World performance, or AAS and see if they could bring in a new gearbox for you, probably a fair bit cheaper than the other two.
Best of luck
John
Lincsls1 said:
Anyone know what the going rate for a new g/box is for the Monaro.
I believe my 04VXR uses the TUET2100 that all CV8 cars use. That being said, I believe the 05VXR TUET2066 box will also direct fit (just has shorter ratios).
Failing that, anyone know where a good used box might be available?
Other advice and knowledge welcome!
My pilot bearing has failed, and screwed the input shaft. Common (ish) issue I believe.
So just replace the input shaft ?I believe my 04VXR uses the TUET2100 that all CV8 cars use. That being said, I believe the 05VXR TUET2066 box will also direct fit (just has shorter ratios).
Failing that, anyone know where a good used box might be available?
Other advice and knowledge welcome!
My pilot bearing has failed, and screwed the input shaft. Common (ish) issue I believe.
Used boxes are big money, hard to justify in a lot of cases.
Or go all out and get a new Magnum, sub £4k....well, depending on exchange rates and shipping etc.
Thanks guys.
The car is currently at AAS, they have said to replace the input shaft means extensively stripping the box and by that stage a rebuild is the way to go rather than refitting the old bearings, synchros and other stuff I don't understand!
Rough estimation was around £1800-2000.
Does this sound about right?
I have fired a question to the 2 usual breakers regarding a price for a 2nd hand box, obviously I understand the risk that comes with that route too.
I would consider the later VXR box due to the lower ratios, I think my current box is exactly the same as any other CV8, its only the diff on the 5.7VXR that's unique.
The car is currently at AAS, they have said to replace the input shaft means extensively stripping the box and by that stage a rebuild is the way to go rather than refitting the old bearings, synchros and other stuff I don't understand!
Rough estimation was around £1800-2000.
Does this sound about right?
I have fired a question to the 2 usual breakers regarding a price for a 2nd hand box, obviously I understand the risk that comes with that route too.
I would consider the later VXR box due to the lower ratios, I think my current box is exactly the same as any other CV8, its only the diff on the 5.7VXR that's unique.
Reading your last post, I think your car is in the best place.
I always advocate AAS as they are honest and competent, and yes It's a lot of money for sure but I really can't see you getting anything cheaper.
The rebuilding of the gearbox will effectively make it as good as new and if you do have any issues with it AAS will sort it out.
I feel your pain, and you will be totally p**sed off.....but what choice do you have?
Thank God you didn't go Vauxhall.
John
I always advocate AAS as they are honest and competent, and yes It's a lot of money for sure but I really can't see you getting anything cheaper.
The rebuilding of the gearbox will effectively make it as good as new and if you do have any issues with it AAS will sort it out.
I feel your pain, and you will be totally p**sed off.....but what choice do you have?
Thank God you didn't go Vauxhall.
John
Lincsls1 said:
Thanks guys.
The car is currently at AAS, they have said to replace the input shaft means extensively stripping the box and by that stage a rebuild is the way to go rather than refitting the old bearings, synchros and other stuff I don't understand!
Rough estimation was around £1800-2000.
Does this sound about right?
I have fired a question to the 2 usual breakers regarding a price for a 2nd hand box, obviously I understand the risk that comes with that route too.
I would consider the later VXR box due to the lower ratios, I think my current box is exactly the same as any other CV8, its only the diff on the 5.7VXR that's unique.
They are correct in that the right way to do it is to strip it so you can correctly set up the preload on the main shaft. Thats not to say you might get away with just changing the input shaft. With a bit of care and diligence it can be done, but has risks.The car is currently at AAS, they have said to replace the input shaft means extensively stripping the box and by that stage a rebuild is the way to go rather than refitting the old bearings, synchros and other stuff I don't understand!
Rough estimation was around £1800-2000.
Does this sound about right?
I have fired a question to the 2 usual breakers regarding a price for a 2nd hand box, obviously I understand the risk that comes with that route too.
I would consider the later VXR box due to the lower ratios, I think my current box is exactly the same as any other CV8, its only the diff on the 5.7VXR that's unique.
Understandably, AAS dont want to do that i suspect, as if it doesn't work, the cost of repair could well be higher. In their position id do the same. If i was fixing my own car, im confident enough that id just change the input shaft. Unless it was an aftermarket piece, in which case i wouldn't.
Additionally, once its stripped, the mainshaft where the 5th/6th gear cluster locates will almost certainly be knackered as will the 5th/6th gear cluster itself.
That said, one thing we did a few times is to sleeve the nose of the input shaft, then refit the same one. Takes a lot of the risk out, but inevitably you wont have the correct preload, but then a well used box wont have anyway. They never do.
The VXR box is a good way to wake up a CV8.
They are not correct.
Swapping the input shaft is a quick and easy job. Yes you will need to re-shim the input bearings again...but no big deal.
Invert the box, remove the front cover. Replace input shaft. Refit front cover and check bearing endplay. remove front cover and re-shim as necessary.
Repeat until happy. Refit cover properly with a little sealer, job done.
With the trans on a stand, an hour would do it easy. Buy an input shaft with new bearings already fitted, and you do not really even need any special tools.
The roadcraft Magnums are generic Magnums and will not be a direct fit. He needs the Magnum F ( shift cup and output yoke will be needed to suit individual applications )
http://www.ddperformance.com/custom-t-56-magnums-f...
Before Tremec released their own F specific model ( ie Camaro F Body fitment ), all the usual companies were stripping a Magnum and rebuilding them with a new tail section to suit the F cars
https://www.tremec.com/not_am_detalle/magnum-f-int...
This is basically the same job you're doing here, albeit they're converting an old LT T56 fitment to an LS, but it's basically a front end replacement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRMVOLrz1gU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLo_BNL-XxY&
Swapping the input shaft is a quick and easy job. Yes you will need to re-shim the input bearings again...but no big deal.
Invert the box, remove the front cover. Replace input shaft. Refit front cover and check bearing endplay. remove front cover and re-shim as necessary.
Repeat until happy. Refit cover properly with a little sealer, job done.
With the trans on a stand, an hour would do it easy. Buy an input shaft with new bearings already fitted, and you do not really even need any special tools.
The roadcraft Magnums are generic Magnums and will not be a direct fit. He needs the Magnum F ( shift cup and output yoke will be needed to suit individual applications )
http://www.ddperformance.com/custom-t-56-magnums-f...
Before Tremec released their own F specific model ( ie Camaro F Body fitment ), all the usual companies were stripping a Magnum and rebuilding them with a new tail section to suit the F cars
https://www.tremec.com/not_am_detalle/magnum-f-int...
This is basically the same job you're doing here, albeit they're converting an old LT T56 fitment to an LS, but it's basically a front end replacement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRMVOLrz1gU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLo_BNL-XxY&
Obviously check to see if this part is correct yourself, synchro teeth and teeth number for the gear.
https://ampdistributing.com/products/2004-06-ponti...
That said...if you are paying someone to do all the work, labour to remove etc etc....costs will still add up a fair amount.
But I would be reluctant to spend any big money repairing an old box unless you were totally sure it was all good. I wouldnt be starting to throw synchros and baulk rings etc at it, as costs would add up and IMO a new Magnum just makes more sense. Albeit at much higher cost.
But on the cheap if you're sure box is good, take it apart, throw a new input shaft into it, new spigot bearing in the crank, and refit it all.
https://ampdistributing.com/products/2004-06-ponti...
That said...if you are paying someone to do all the work, labour to remove etc etc....costs will still add up a fair amount.
But I would be reluctant to spend any big money repairing an old box unless you were totally sure it was all good. I wouldnt be starting to throw synchros and baulk rings etc at it, as costs would add up and IMO a new Magnum just makes more sense. Albeit at much higher cost.
But on the cheap if you're sure box is good, take it apart, throw a new input shaft into it, new spigot bearing in the crank, and refit it all.
Edited by stevieturbo on Wednesday 8th April 23:13
mfp4073 said:
Reading your last post, I think your car is in the best place.
I always advocate AAS as they are honest and competent, and yes It's a lot of money for sure but I really can't see you getting anything cheaper.
The rebuilding of the gearbox will effectively make it as good as new and if you do have any issues with it AAS will sort it out.
I feel your pain, and you will be totally p**sed off.....but what choice do you have?
Thank God you didn't go Vauxhall.
John
Yeah, I know its in a great place. Totally trust these guys, but never hurts to ask a few questions. Just trying to decide if I can justify £4k on a new box when a rebuilt box is theoretically as good as new for half the price.I always advocate AAS as they are honest and competent, and yes It's a lot of money for sure but I really can't see you getting anything cheaper.
The rebuilding of the gearbox will effectively make it as good as new and if you do have any issues with it AAS will sort it out.
I feel your pain, and you will be totally p**sed off.....but what choice do you have?
Thank God you didn't go Vauxhall.
John
And then there is the 2nd hand option, with the choice of throwing the later VXR box on (TUET2066) with the shorter ratios.
Thanks everyone for your opinions and advice.
Lincsls1 said:
Yeah, I know its in a great place. Totally trust these guys, but never hurts to ask a few questions. Just trying to decide if I can justify £4k on a new box when a rebuilt box is theoretically as good as new for half the price.
And then there is the 2nd hand option, with the choice of throwing the later VXR box on (TUET2066) with the shorter ratios.
Thanks everyone for your opinions and advice.
If there was nothing else wrong with the box, then just change the input shaft and be done with it. It is a very simple job, and there is no real reason to touch anything else inside the box.And then there is the 2nd hand option, with the choice of throwing the later VXR box on (TUET2066) with the shorter ratios.
Thanks everyone for your opinions and advice.
And no, a rebuilt old T56 is in no way whatsoever as good as a new Magnum ( or even a new 6060, although that'll be harder to fit )
2nd hand is an option, but if you can find a trusted good box for much under £1500 you'll be doing well.
stevieturbo said:
Lincsls1 said:
Yeah, I know its in a great place. Totally trust these guys, but never hurts to ask a few questions. Just trying to decide if I can justify £4k on a new box when a rebuilt box is theoretically as good as new for half the price.
And then there is the 2nd hand option, with the choice of throwing the later VXR box on (TUET2066) with the shorter ratios.
Thanks everyone for your opinions and advice.
And no, a rebuilt old T56 is in no way whatsoever as good as a new Magnum ( or even a new 6060, although that'll be harder to fit )And then there is the 2nd hand option, with the choice of throwing the later VXR box on (TUET2066) with the shorter ratios.
Thanks everyone for your opinions and advice.
Still considering all options. Nowt else to do!
So, I am right in thinking if I decided on a new box, the Tremec Magnum F such as the one in the link below, although a direct fit, will need either a 1 piece prop or to have the current one modified?
Cheers.
http://www.ddperformance.com/custom-t-56-magnums-f...
So, I am right in thinking if I decided on a new box, the Tremec Magnum F such as the one in the link below, although a direct fit, will need either a 1 piece prop or to have the current one modified?
Cheers.
http://www.ddperformance.com/custom-t-56-magnums-f...
Well that BA81 GTO, looks like a good bet, but I'm not sure on the various gear ratios compared to what you have in the old gearbox.
Maybe you will also need the optional slip yoke to fit?
From what I have heard a one piece propshaft isn't a good idea as these can cause vibrations at various speeds.
Maybe you will also need the optional slip yoke to fit?
From what I have heard a one piece propshaft isn't a good idea as these can cause vibrations at various speeds.
I'd go for the BA82 if this is the way forward because it has lower ratios in 1st 2nd & 3rd. 4th, 5th and 6th remain the same.
Better for blasting about and then cruising.
The BA81 has the same first 4 gears as my current box, but then 5th & 6th are shorter - blunts the initial acceleration, but then 5th & 6th will have more?
Odd.
I have the TUET2100 in my 04VXR, which is just a CV8 box. But then I have the 3.7 diff to compensate somewhat.
Coupled with a BA82, it should feel a bit livelier at lower speeds, but cruise the same as it always has.
All that being said, I reckon once shipping (about £800) and then import duties along with VAT are added I'm not going to have any change from £5k!! That's hard to contemplate on a car of its value.
I've been quoted £2k (exchange) for a 2nd hand CV8 (MM6) box. If going 2nd hand, I'd opt for the 05VXR (M12) box with its lower ratios. Can't see why that would cost more. To be honest I think £2k is too much for a 2nd hand box, might as well go for the rebuild.
£1500 would be more reasonable I feel.
Better for blasting about and then cruising.
The BA81 has the same first 4 gears as my current box, but then 5th & 6th are shorter - blunts the initial acceleration, but then 5th & 6th will have more?
Odd.
I have the TUET2100 in my 04VXR, which is just a CV8 box. But then I have the 3.7 diff to compensate somewhat.
Coupled with a BA82, it should feel a bit livelier at lower speeds, but cruise the same as it always has.
All that being said, I reckon once shipping (about £800) and then import duties along with VAT are added I'm not going to have any change from £5k!! That's hard to contemplate on a car of its value.
I've been quoted £2k (exchange) for a 2nd hand CV8 (MM6) box. If going 2nd hand, I'd opt for the 05VXR (M12) box with its lower ratios. Can't see why that would cost more. To be honest I think £2k is too much for a 2nd hand box, might as well go for the rebuild.
£1500 would be more reasonable I feel.
The cost of a used gearbox at £2k plus your gearbox as a part ex is too much of a gamble in my opinion.
The cost of around £5k for a new gearbox is a bit of a nightmare as well. On the plus side of course it's brand new and a performance upgrade, so man maths come into play with that option.
The £2k for the rebuild of your old one seems to be the cheapest option with the lowest risk. Mind you it also depends on what AAS find when they pull the box apart.
I suppose if you did buy a new T56 Magnum you might get still a decent price for your old one?
John
The cost of around £5k for a new gearbox is a bit of a nightmare as well. On the plus side of course it's brand new and a performance upgrade, so man maths come into play with that option.
The £2k for the rebuild of your old one seems to be the cheapest option with the lowest risk. Mind you it also depends on what AAS find when they pull the box apart.
I suppose if you did buy a new T56 Magnum you might get still a decent price for your old one?
John
Yes, I do love it.
Truth is, I bought a somewhat uncared for example. But I wanted a 04VXR and they just don't come available to often at all. It looked nice and shiny!
Previous owners have just used it well, and spent money on trivial stuff rather than real maintenance. And in fairness that's their prerogative.
It was well on the way back to very good health, and then this!
Last year it got the full AP brake kit, full AAS stainless inc.cats and headers, wheel bearing, (proper) A/C repair and more!
Its been fully serviced up, new wheels n tyres, various bits of trim replaced.
And literally just before I took it in, I replaced the diff oil (again!), fitted a brand new door seal and replaced the bonnet and boot struts. So you can tell, I'm prepared to spend on it. Just hadn't factored for this, at least not for this year!
Ah well. In the grand scheme of things, especially with the current crisis, it really doesn't matter.
Truth is, I bought a somewhat uncared for example. But I wanted a 04VXR and they just don't come available to often at all. It looked nice and shiny!
Previous owners have just used it well, and spent money on trivial stuff rather than real maintenance. And in fairness that's their prerogative.
It was well on the way back to very good health, and then this!
Last year it got the full AP brake kit, full AAS stainless inc.cats and headers, wheel bearing, (proper) A/C repair and more!
Its been fully serviced up, new wheels n tyres, various bits of trim replaced.
And literally just before I took it in, I replaced the diff oil (again!), fitted a brand new door seal and replaced the bonnet and boot struts. So you can tell, I'm prepared to spend on it. Just hadn't factored for this, at least not for this year!
Ah well. In the grand scheme of things, especially with the current crisis, it really doesn't matter.
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