Monaro 05 cv8 dash cluster woes

[SOCO]

It would appear that my dash cluster is partially fried probably due to a jump start or battery change. Everything works apart from some idiot lights including the ABS light and whilst having the mot done I've just found out is an mot fail.

Cluster Repairs UK can't fix it because they say it's a software issue, not bulbs.

If I can't get this fixed I'm up the swanny. Has anyone else had this problem or know how to get another cluster to be programmed to my car?

[ARAF]

Wasn't it Foxdie that did a lot with the electronics on our cars? He may be able to help.

[maccavvy]

can a replacement cluster not fix the issue. ??

I'm sure brett (speed4u) or gary (raving) may have a second hand one

[SOCO]

I do indeed need another cluster. I also need to get someone to code it to my car.

Without getting it coded, the car probably won't even start.

[Jader1973]

Have a look on eBay Australia. There are people advertising reprogrammed clusters on there.

It might be expensive but if it is your only option might be worth looking at.

[SturdyHSV]

SOCO said:

I do indeed need another cluster. I also need to get someone to code it to my car.

Without getting it coded, the car probably won't even start.

You don't need the dash connected to the car to drive it, so that won't be an issue at all

What other lights other than ABS are there? It isn't just that there is actually an ABS fault of some sort? Have you had the codes read by a Tech2? Monkfish / Walkinshaw etc. would be able to read if there is a code that's triggering the light.

Or do you mean the ABS light never comes on? So it doesn't flash up the ABS warning on the central screen, just the idiot light doesn't come on at all and thus is an MOT fail?

How do Cluster Repair UK know it's not the bulbs (LEDs)? Have you sent it off to them to look at?

EDIT for pics:

Getting to this stage requires no special skill beyond putting a bit of tape on the black backing so you know where to press the needles back on.

You could then quite easily test if the LED actually still lights up, and could feasibly change it over without taking the white plastic bit off.



They're relatively annoying to take apart beyond that stage as the screens are through hole mounted and de-soldering all the pins takes a while (took me a while anyway, as I had no soldering experience when starting, and was using solder wick as opposed to a sucker (Mud got quite adept with the sucker but he's less of an oaf than me!)

You have to take the screens off in order to take the white plastic cover off.



I was just changing the colour of the LEDs, but if it is just that the LED itself has gone pop, it could be a 'simple' fix?

Edited by SturdyHSV on Friday 13th January 14:40

[SturdyHSV]

Thanks for making me look at those pictures again, as I've just realised the two LEDs on mine that are intermittent (note my earlier comment regarding no soldering experience) are accessible without taking the screens off, meaning I could replace them without wasting hours of my life!

[Mud_]

Even practiced up (cluster #3 or #4...) it's still a slog to desolder all 3 screens!

[SOCO]

SturdyHSV said:

You don't need the dash connected to the car to drive it, so that won't be an issue at all

What other lights other than ABS are there? It isn't just that there is actually an ABS fault of some sort? Have you had the codes read by a Tech2? Monkfish / Walkinshaw etc. would be able to read if there is a code that's triggering the light.

Or do you mean the ABS light never comes on? So it doesn't flash up the ABS warning on the central screen, just the idiot light doesn't come on at all and thus is an MOT fail?

How do Cluster Repair UK know it's not the bulbs (LEDs)? Have you sent it off to them to look at?

EDIT for pics:

Getting to this stage requires no special skill beyond putting a bit of tape on the black backing so you know where to press the needles back on.

You could then quite easily test if the LED actually still lights up, and could feasibly change it over without taking the white plastic bit off.



They're relatively annoying to take apart beyond that stage as the screens are through hole mounted and de-soldering all the pins takes a while (took me a while anyway, as I had no soldering experience when starting, and was using solder wick as opposed to a sucker (Mud got quite adept with the sucker but he's less of an oaf than me!)

You have to take the screens off in order to take the white plastic cover off.



I was just changing the colour of the LEDs, but if it is just that the LED itself has gone pop, it could be a 'simple' fix?

Edited by SturdyHSV on Friday 13th January 14:40

Thanks everyone for your input, its much appreciated.

I'm told that I should not try to drive the car without the cluster as it'll bring up SRS faults if it starts at all and possibly a raft of other problems. The engine check light doesn't come on either. Cluster Repair UK have looked at it and in their report cited corrupted sofware from a high volt incident such as when I've jump started it.

We are probably all familiar with the process of pressing Mode and Set buttons together when turning the ignition on, then scrolling down to the bulb test that lights up all of the dashboard bulbs and sets all your dials to half way until you switch off or scroll back. At that point everything lights up other than abs and engine check and they don't illuminate when the ignition is first turned. If it was bulbs, they could have fixed it. They have told me that I need a replacement cluster and that it has to be coded to the car. They cannot do coding though.

I'm surprised but pleased that I appear to be the only one to have suffered this fate.

I'm hoping that the coding info isn't sitting fried in my cluster and that the necessary coding info can be found through factory records or chassis number. I am in touch with a company in Aus who can do coding, but they haven't got back with what coding info they need. There are companies in the UK who do Vauxhall coding but make no mention of Monaro/ R8 clusters.

[Mud_]

I would try swapping the offending LED, what have you got to lose?

[SOCO]

Mud_ said:

I would try swapping the offending LED, what have you got to lose?

I appreciate your kind sentiment but I gave the cluster to a well known company who change LEDS all the time as an everyday repair. They have tested the unit and the leds are not the problem. They have found evidence of corrupted software due to a voltage overload.

[Mud_]

SOCO said:

I appreciate your kind sentiment but I gave the cluster to a well known company who change LEDS all the time as an everyday repair. They have tested the unit and the leds are not the problem. They have found evidence of corrupted software due to a voltage overload.

You're a far more trusting person than me

[SturdyHSV]

SOCO said:

Mud_ said:

I would try swapping the offending LED, what have you got to lose?

I appreciate your kind sentiment but I gave the cluster to a well known company who change LEDS all the time as an everyday repair. They have tested the unit and the leds are not the problem. They have found evidence of corrupted software due to a voltage overload.

If I may be so bold, and just as background I work as a software developer, and work alongside the hardware / firmware engineers, but the likelihood that corrupted software would cause 2 LEDs not to light up and the rest of it to work fine is infinitesimally small. In addition to that, the likelihood that excessive voltage from a jump start would manage to cause that specific bit of corruption also very small. And further more, cars are jump started all the time, the dash and sensitive components are reasonably well protected from excessive voltage to avoid things frying constantly.

That does come across as a bit 'smart arse' and honestly I'm not trying to be condescending, so apologies for the tone, but honestly, for the sake of the car being off the road for ages or going through the ordeal and expense of sourcing a new cluster, I'd be trying the LEDs.

As Mud said, if it's fried anyway, you have nothing to lose trying and a lot to gain?

Also, from personal experience, you can drive the car without the dash in, nothing happens, it is absolutely no different whatsoever. The dash is like a TV screen plugged into a Sky box. Unplug the TV, the Sky box still works, you just can't see anything.

I'm personally not even entirely convinced the dash is coded to the car, but I don't have any other dashes to try. It just seems a strange design decision to have the mileage (about the only thing of any significance to the individual car) stored in the dash... Just because the old numbers used to mechanically turn over in the dash, it's not like that now, it's electronic.

Tell you what, if I remember and am motivated enough I'll take my dash out, drive it a couple of miles, and verify that the mileage has changed

With regards to the company, it's an unfamiliar dash and cocking it up would be time consuming and costly for them, so they simply may not want the business.

EDIT:

Just to clarify, I have personally driven my Monaro without the dash plugged in (changed parking spaces whilst I was mid way through doing the LED changes) and it did not do anything any differently whatsoever, and had absolutely no lasting effects or any fault codes raised at all.

On top of this, I have been through the service manuals in great detail verifying how the SRS system works, what the faults are that can be raised, and the specific conditions that trigger them. There is no SRS fault, or any fault whatsoever, related to 'No dashboard'. Frankly where would they show the fault light? The SRS system deals exclusively with the driver / passenger front and side airbags and the seatbelt pretensioners. The range of faults available cover short / open circuits, too low / high resistance and too low / high capacitance for any of those systems. Nothing else.

I appreciate I'm just an anonymous voice on the internet, whereas you've also had the opinion of a specialist company face to face, so no offence taken if you don't feel comfortable with what I'm saying, I'm just trying to help you get on with enjoying your car

Edited by SturdyHSV on Saturday 14th January 17:34

[SOCO]

I want to thank absolutely all of you for taking the time to help offer advice and suggestions to get me back on the road with my Ro. I'm pleased to tell you I have a couple a hacks to keep me mobile for now at least

I was advised that a different cluster would have to be matched to my car's id. Having had a punt around the tinterweb it may be duff info. It may well be that a different cluster would just need to be coded to the model if it came from a different body style/v6/v8/manual/auto etc. Over here the choice was limited to just a few models and so hopefully another late model CV8 cluster would just need the mileage to be changed.

I got the info below from

http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/threads/vy-vz-...

Programming requirements
Now looking into the technical side of changing instrument clusters. For those going to change their instrument cluster with a second hand one, there are things you should get reprogrammed and aspects that you will more than likely need to get the cluster reprogrammed to get it to work correctly!
To reprogram the cluster correctly, the following needs to be updated:
- Odometer
- Engine Size (V6 or V8)
- Transmission (Manual or Auto, VZs also have 4spd or 5spd choice)
- Body Type (Sedan, Utility, Cabchassis ect)
- Series (1 or 2.. only applicable to VYs)
- SRS configuration (0,2,3,4 or 6 loop)
Its vital the SRS configuration is CORRECT otherwise it will cause the SRS warning to pop up! I still see this on a regular basis!


I have seen info on more modern cars that does indeed state that the cluster has to be coded to the car.
It appears that our Ro's weren't that clever. If that's true, thank God for that.

I'll keep you posted on progress, and feel free to comment. I'm amongst friends here!

Adrian

[MarvinTPA]

Hi, if you go to http://www.4shared.com/office/LYaikOYa/v217ac.htm
You'll find wiring diagrams for the cluster ( amongst other things ). This may shed some light on exactly what is / is not working. The ABS for instance is just a lamp in the cluster, it is connected to ignition + feed ( pin 19 ? ) along with the rest of the dash and then straight out to pin 9. Presumably held to earth to illuminate and held open circuit or high to extinguish. If I were testing it however I'd put a 1k resistor between pin 9 and earth just in case it's a straight LED with no over current protection.

Unlike most of the dash, this particular LED doesn't seem to go through / via / rely on the cluster electronics.

Hope this is a help.

[SOCO]

Deep deep joy! It's fixed!

There were no blown LEDs. There was no evidence of a voltage overload.

It just needed a software tweak to correct a masked value.....no, I don't know what it means either. I didn't need a replacement cluster in the end, but in the course of my investigations I at least discovered that if a cluster dies we won't need a replacement to be coded to the car, just a like for like replacement.

There was a moment or two when I feared the worst and that it just couldn't be fixed.

Thanks everyone for your support, it was and still is very much appreciated.

Adrian

[Codswallop]

Glad you got your cluster working chap.

My cluster has just caused the car to fail it's MOT however. The ABS warning light did not light up when the car was started. How easy is it to change the bulb or get it tested? Removing the cluster seems easy enough, but the bit above that mentions soldering is a bit worrying for an electronics noob with limited soldering experience.

I don't think the car has an ABS fault as last time I had one, the main LCD display gave a warning message and the traction control was disabled too (but no such issues this time). Don't know anyone locally (Cornwall) with Tech 2 as I've just moved to the area.

Can the bulb be changed easily (plug and play)? If not, could I take the cluster to a PC repair place and get them to solder in a replacement bulb?

[Mud_]

I think your instincts sound right - wouldn't an ABS issue at least throw a code over OBDII?

If it is just the LED then as it's surface mount you may struggle to get someone to touch it - not to say it's especially difficult, but a bit fiddly. Multimeters often have a facility to test LEDs...would require taking the cluster apart like in Sturdy's pics though.

[Codswallop]

Thanks Mud_

I'm happy to strip everything out so it matches Sturdy's photo above. Would a computer repair place be able to do the soldering part of the job? Or is it best to seek out an auto electrician?

Also, is the LED a special item I should order, or is it pretty common and likely most people in that line of work will have spares already?

Thanks

[Mud_]

I'm not sure about PC repair places getting their handy dirty - I thought most just swapped parts (like most 'mechanics' these days...). You'd have to ask them. Could always send it to the place SOCO used.

Remind me Sturdy, were they 1210 LEDs? There's nothing much special about them.