Darton sleeves - cost?

[robbyd]

What is ballpark cost for these? LS1/2.

I assume this is the only way to be bulletproof on an Ali bock?

thanks

[jameshsv]

Depends on your upgrades what bhp do you require

[robbyd]

why would it?

One product fitted same way in each block - looking 700 bhp

[ArnieVXR]

Boosted LS1 had some Dartin sleeves knocking about. They aren't cheap and you'll struggle to find someone it theUK who can do the work, as it's quite involved. I bet you'ld end up forking out £2-3K all in.

You can buy sleeved blocks from the States for similar money. I'm sure stevieturbo will be along soon to tellyou that the stock block is pretty good as it AND that there's no way to make the block bullet proof.

What sort of power are you looking at running?

[stevieturbo]

robbyd said:

why would it?

One product fitted same way in each block - looking 700 bhp

That is barely tickling a factory block. Having liners fitted etc would be a complete and utter waste of money for such a moderate power goal.

And try not to shoot at the block....it wont do it any good even if it has different liners fitted.

[MyM8V8]

ArnieVXR said:

Boosted LS1 had some Dartin sleeves knocking about. They aren't cheap and you'll struggle to find someone it theUK who can do the work, as it's quite involved.

No you wont. Try Dave Powell at Performance Unlimited of York. I had a quote couple of years back its was about £1500+VAT fitted.

My 6 litre block has standard crank, rods and block, made 600 at the wheels on 16 psi of boost and has survived very well.

Edited by MyM8V8 on Sunday 30th October 01:18

[anonymous-user]

Or buy Emma's old car which is for sale and has a sleeved LS2. Really depends on the goal.

[stevieturbo]

I've never used anything other than standard blocks.


Go figure.

They work, they'll handle the power almost anyone here will ever throw at them.

Almost every instance of block failure is down to bad tuning or build, not a weakness with the block/liners themselves and at only 700....not an issue at all.

If you're really feeling flush and wanting to spend money an LSA block might be worthwhile, or I'd probably just go straight to an ERL Superdeck or one of their blocks.

I posted this up before as it was interesting

http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/engine-block...

They almost recommend starting with a 5.3 as a base as their blocks tend to be stronger....and helpful too as they're the cheapest to start from. As it wouldnt really be cost effective to send a block from the UK to the US for work anyway.

The other option if you're happy with a weight penalty is iron or an LSx block

But really, for anything sub 1200 or so a good factory aluminium block built properly is fine unless it's for endurance racing or something.

[Boosted LS1]

Just about anybody can install the dry liners as it's a relatively straightforward boring and sleeving job. The darton MID wet liners need much more accurate machinery because you need to register the bore centres when the blocks been gutted. Few places have this equipment. Also I think the wet liner specs may be different between the ls1 and ls2 because the blocks differ slightly.

Dave at Performance Unlimited has done dry sleeve installations and probably has the equipment for a wet sleeve install but you'd need to ask him to be sure.

[stevieturbo]

Dave did the Darton sleeved blocks MF used, presumably one of which went in Emmas car ?

No idea where the other went ?

I was actually in Dave's workshop about 4-5 years ago I think it was when the blocks were there to get done

But really...there is no point in it when factory blocks are quite strong enough

[robbyd]

My block seems to have been bored to 3.905, according to some previous invoices, which possibly makes it weaker for turning up the wick.

With the pound collapsed against USD new blocks from Summit are now dearer, so maybe Darton sleeves done here might have been a viable option - though i do appreciate a new standard block is plenty strong enough for 800 bhp, maybe more...

[stevieturbo]

robbyd said:

My block seems to have been bored to 3.905, according to some previous invoices, which possibly makes it weaker for turning up the wick.

With the pound collapsed against USD new blocks from Summit are now dearer, so maybe Darton sleeves done here might have been a viable option - though i do appreciate a new standard block is plenty strong enough for 800 bhp, maybe more...

If you're already on an LS1/6 block, then yes that is regarded as the upper limit.

But getting liners fitted isnt cheap either.

So what are you trying to achieve ?

Is it a complete new bottom end, or are you trying to re-use your old crank/rods/pistons etc ? If so then I guess liners could be an option.

I dont even think LS1/6 blocks are even available new now anyway, if that's what you were wanting to stick with ( as there are some slight fitment variations with later blocks )

If you're having or wanting to buy new internals too...then I'd just consider buying a complete shortblock from the US.

eg on a budget with factory blocks/liners

http://www.thompsonmotorsports.net/index.php?cPath...

Or sleeved versions ( totally unnecessary for your power level )

http://www.erlperformance.com/product-category/ful...

Exchange rates do suck though

Although some of the Crate engines from PWP arent terrible overall, and with good tuning the standard built engines really can make good power. If you could tolerate iron, the B15 seems to be a fairly well proven build too although most of those heads would require new intake etc from your cathedral ports.

http://www.partsworldperformance.com/chevrolet-ls-...

[robbyd]

My engine already has forged low comp pistons, uprated rods, though standard crank & block.Wanting to do a refresh in the future, but that overbore may make it pointless with that particular block.

new GM standard blocks do seems to be still available at Summit - but with taxes, shipping etc it all adds up!

[stevieturbo]

Any decent machine shop should be able to fit liners to your existing block without the need to go Darton.

Any top hat liner style should be fine. But again by time you've done 8 it will add up costwise.

[anonymous-user]

robbyd said:

My block seems to have been bored to 3.905, according to some previous invoices, which possibly makes it weaker for turning up the wick.

With the pound collapsed against USD new blocks from Summit are now dearer, so maybe Darton sleeves done here might have been a viable option - though i do appreciate a new standard block is plenty strong enough for 800 bhp, maybe more...

To be honest, unless you are doing the work yourself, what it costs to pull it apart and upgrade it vs what it costs if it goes bang, I'd go with a TVS supercharger and leave the rest as it is. it has forged pistons and rods which are the weakest part so if it were mine, I'd leave it alone.

Alternatively, sell it off and get a second hand LS2 which is a better starting point. Gareth's recipe for cheap power seems to be holding up very well: Stock LS2 + pistons + TVS2300 = 600whp (about 750hp at the flywheel). Simple is best - stock stroke, stock OE components, and stay away from strokers!

[stevieturbo]

and LOL...just seen somewhere selling Darton sleeves only for an LS block. As it is an ebay seller, I'm not sure if they were selling the fitting service or just the sleeves themselves....but they were wanting US $1400.

The new LS1 blocks on Summit/Jegs seem to be around $963

Really that would be a no brainer.

[Boosted LS1]

Also bare in mind that the ls1 blocks can suffer a cracked liner if they have any detonation. Sleeving by any method/brand gets round this and has overbore potential. Stock ls1 can only be honed because the liners are so thin.

That said, I'm pretty certain the ls1 blocks are the toughest of them all, LSA excepted.

[stevieturbo]

Boosted LS1 said:

Also bare in mind that the ls1 blocks can suffer a cracked liner if they have any detonation. Sleeving by any method/brand gets round this and has overbore potential. Stock ls1 can only be honed because the liners are so thin.

That said, I'm pretty certain the ls1 blocks are the toughest of them all, LSA excepted.

LS1/6 probably has the thinnest liners, so not really the toughest.

LS2/3/A probably best of the larger bore blocks

Of course the 4.8/5.3 blocks would be the strongest if you were happy with a slight capacity reduction.

Instances of a cracked liner on any would be fairly rare and if you're tuning is that bad to cause it....then you kind of deserve it for using a dummy tuner.

I used an LS1 block for a long time with zero issue ( well LS6, but same liner setup ) and then LS2 block after that. Both in standard stroke and 4" stroker, and no issues with either.
So for 700...really any factory block is perfectly adequate, although base iron blocks have shorter liners so less ideal for a stroker.

[robbyd]

thanks everyone

[Boosted LS1]

stevieturbo said:

Boosted LS1 said:

Also bare in mind that the ls1 blocks can suffer a cracked liner if they have any detonation. Sleeving by any method/brand gets round this and has overbore potential. Stock ls1 can only be honed because the liners are so thin.

That said, I'm pretty certain the ls1 blocks are the toughest of them all, LSA excepted.

LS1/6 probably has the thinnest liners, so not really the toughest.

LS2/3/A probably best of the larger bore blocks

Of course the 4.8/5.3 blocks would be the strongest if you were happy with a slight capacity reduction.

Instances of a cracked liner on any would be fairly rare and if you're tuning is that bad to cause it....then you kind of deserve it for using a dummy tuner.

I think you misunderstood me Stevie. The ls1/6 sleeves (not even proper sleeves in the true sense) are the weakest of the lot but the block casings are probably the toughest apart from the LSA. LS1/6 have more material at the bottom of the bores and ls1's don't have vented crankcase webbing. Those blocks are over 15 years old now so probably all will be worn out unless they've done very low miles.

i agree about the crap tuner comments though. Detonation in any block has the potential to do damage.