Monaro suspension
Discussion
ARAF said:
Before you ask that question, you need to know what you want from the suspension.
If your suspension is doing exactly what you want, then no need to change. You already have the best for you.
Mine works very well foe me If your suspension is doing exactly what you want, then no need to change. You already have the best for you.
Not that Roger likes it 
But if i wanted THE BEST, with touch button settings, What options would i have if money was not an issue ?
007 VXR said:
ARAF said:
Before you ask that question, you need to know what you want from the suspension.
If your suspension is doing exactly what you want, then no need to change. You already have the best for you.
Mine works very well foe me If your suspension is doing exactly what you want, then no need to change. You already have the best for you.
Not that Roger likes it But if i wanted THE BEST, with touch button settings, What options would i have if money was not an issue ?
Presumably somebody sells off the shelf magnetorheological dampers? That'd give you adjustment and you could say you have the same fancy dampers as lots of posh things like Ferraris ( although GM invented it and they licensed it apparently, so it's still not that fancy really 
)
Do you mean 'best' as in fastest on a track? Or fastest on the road? Or Most comfortable on the road? Or best compromise between comfort, road and track performance? (A compromise whose level is only known by you unfortunately)
To the best of my (limited) knowledge, the simple way the suspension is mounted on a Monaro is not an 'optimal' solution. There is not enough control over the contact patch through the full travel of the suspension. Something like a multi-link set-up gives extremely fine control of wheel movement throughout the travel, but it is expensive, complicated, and you need the space to make it all fit...
You've already encountered the problem with the term 'best'. Your suspension is far better than mine, but of the two Roger would presumably prefer mine as it's just better dampers with the stock springs, so not as stiff when on the road. ( On a track I wouldn't see where you went though ). My point being 'best' becomes a personal, subjective term, how much you're willing to compromise one thing to improve another.
Presumably 'best' could be like on the 12C / P1 etc., each wheel independently suspended and hydraulically controlled, allowing the widest range of options for ride quality whilst maintaining stiff, racecar like properties when desired?
)Do you mean 'best' as in fastest on a track? Or fastest on the road? Or Most comfortable on the road? Or best compromise between comfort, road and track performance? (A compromise whose level is only known by you unfortunately)
To the best of my (limited) knowledge, the simple way the suspension is mounted on a Monaro is not an 'optimal' solution. There is not enough control over the contact patch through the full travel of the suspension. Something like a multi-link set-up gives extremely fine control of wheel movement throughout the travel, but it is expensive, complicated, and you need the space to make it all fit...
You've already encountered the problem with the term 'best'. Your suspension is far better than mine, but of the two Roger would presumably prefer mine as it's just better dampers with the stock springs, so not as stiff when on the road. ( On a track I wouldn't see where you went though
). My point being 'best' becomes a personal, subjective term, how much you're willing to compromise one thing to improve another.Presumably 'best' could be like on the 12C / P1 etc., each wheel independently suspended and hydraulically controlled, allowing the widest range of options for ride quality whilst maintaining stiff, racecar like properties when desired?
Tattooboy said:
Money no object and push button, you would be looking at an Air Ride System.
For manual settings, surely Pedders Supercar !! Tried and tested, it's what i've got on mine.
Air ride dont bother , ran it on rods , headache , best left on buses & trailersFor manual settings, surely Pedders Supercar !! Tried and tested, it's what i've got on mine.
Penske or ohlins , it would be nice to see some paint left on pedders stuff longer than 12 months
crisisjez said:
Take the car to a suspension guru, someone who takes all day setting the car up to you specs.
Surely (Shirley) you'd need some specs to set it up to though? Although I suppose he must get a lot of people come in saying 'I want it to be great everywhere' so must be prepared for that...SturdyHSV said:
Surely (Shirley) you'd need some specs to set it up to though? Although I suppose he must get a lot of people come in saying 'I want it to be great everywhere' so must be prepared for that...
I guess that's where the expertise comes in. Factory specs are just a fix all setting, these guys listen to what you want or go out with you and then weigh the car look at the balance and the either reset or recommend upgrades depending on budget.crisisjez said:
SturdyHSV said:
Surely (Shirley) you'd need some specs to set it up to though? Although I suppose he must get a lot of people come in saying 'I want it to be great everywhere' so must be prepared for that...
I guess that's where the expertise comes in. Factory specs are just a fix all setting, these guys listen to what you want or go out with you and then weigh the car look at the balance and the either reset or recommend upgrades depending on budget.
I've spent several years trying out other peoples' cars in the search for a suspension upgrade that I could live with. By a long way the best I have driven (for me) was standard VXR suspension for normal road use. Maybe the manufacturers weren't so daft after all.
Then again, everybody has different goals. Mine is comfort and stability.
Then again, everybody has different goals. Mine is comfort and stability.
richie slow said:
I've spent several years trying out other peoples' cars in the search for a suspension upgrade that I could live with. By a long way the best I have driven (for me) was standard VXR suspension for normal road use. Maybe the manufacturers weren't so daft after all.
Then again, everybody has different goals. Mine is comfort and stability.
How old was the suspension when you drove it? As if fairly low mileage, all the dampers / bushes etc. would be working as they were intended, which will make a big difference to body control.Then again, everybody has different goals. Mine is comfort and stability.
I'd argue that for road use, you want something that's supple and feels planted allowing you to make progress smoothly, as opposed to having the car set-up to achieve maximum cornering g on a track, and then living with the resulting stiffness in every other situation, where you're bouncing between dodgy camber, undulations and potholes.
crisisjez said:
Take the car to a suspension guru, someone who takes all day setting the car up to you specs.
There is a well known guy in the midlands who does a lot of Porsche stuff (www.centregravity.co.uk)) but I bet he's not the only one.
There is a well known guy in the midlands who does a lot of Porsche stuff (www.centregravity.co.uk)) but I bet he's not the only one.
Chris Franklin, isn't it? I'm sure he does more than just Porsches though - just looked on his website, and one of the pictures is setting up an Audi TT Quatro. It's a lot of money for a day's consultation (rather than actually buying parts), but he'd be ideal for you 007.
SturdyHSV said:
richie slow said:
I've spent several years trying out other peoples' cars in the search for a suspension upgrade that I could live with. By a long way the best I have driven (for me) was standard VXR suspension for normal road use. Maybe the manufacturers weren't so daft after all.
Then again, everybody has different goals. Mine is comfort and stability.
How old was the suspension when you drove it? As if fairly low mileage, all the dampers / bushes etc. would be working as they were intended, which will make a big difference to body control.Then again, everybody has different goals. Mine is comfort and stability.
I'd argue that for road use, you want something that's supple and feels planted allowing you to make progress smoothly, as opposed to having the car set-up to achieve maximum cornering g on a track, and then living with the resulting stiffness in every other situation, where you're bouncing between dodgy camber, undulations and potholes.
richie slow said:
It had about 65000 miles on it, so not exactly brand new. I agree with your point about the demands of the road being different from the track. And it's not like any respectable racetrack owner could get away with some of the rubbish surfaces that compromise todays highways. Sometimes you can see the pothole but can do nothing to avoid it but cringe as you thump into it. Not good.
You'll have to try mine sometime then, although I think the seats will skew the comfort ratio a bit out of its favour! The seats for me vastly improved the feeling of being connected to the car and how it is moving. Doing the bushes and dampers vastly improved how it actually moved about, so what you're connected to is now more pleasant, it feels much more controlled.
The stiffer rear anti-roll bar has been the only degradation in ride quality (I presume it's that), but it's only at lower speeds, and it's because of how common terrible road surfaces are it's even an issue to be honest...
SturdyHSV said:
richie slow said:
It had about 65000 miles on it, so not exactly brand new. I agree with your point about the demands of the road being different from the track. And it's not like any respectable racetrack owner could get away with some of the rubbish surfaces that compromise todays highways. Sometimes you can see the pothole but can do nothing to avoid it but cringe as you thump into it. Not good.
You'll have to try mine sometime then, although I think the seats will skew the comfort ratio a bit out of its favour! The seats for me vastly improved the feeling of being connected to the car and how it is moving. Doing the bushes and dampers vastly improved how it actually moved about, so what you're connected to is now more pleasant, it feels much more controlled.
The stiffer rear anti-roll bar has been the only degradation in ride quality (I presume it's that), but it's only at lower speeds, and it's because of how common terrible road surfaces are it's even an issue to be honest...
But you are right, your seats will naturally make you feel more connected to car. We need to go for a run sometime. I'd love to see what it feels like now
richie slow said:
Mine's having poly bushes and shocks fitted tomorrow. It should stop the car from floating around and reacting adversely to changes in camber.
This is exactly what it did, so you'll be pleased The camber reaction I haven't noticed, or more likely am not experienced enough to quantify the change, but the feeling of the body floating on the wheels as opposed to feeling planted is what I noticed, it's as if the car is lower and hunkered down compared to how it was before.
Are you at the fish tomorrow then? Just nipping in / out or loitering? I'm only 12 miles away, but alas, will be at work
SturdyHSV said:
richie slow said:
Mine's having poly bushes and shocks fitted tomorrow. It should stop the car from floating around and reacting adversely to changes in camber.
This is exactly what it did, so you'll be pleased The camber reaction I haven't noticed, or more likely am not experienced enough to quantify the change, but the feeling of the body floating on the wheels as opposed to feeling planted is what I noticed, it's as if the car is lower and hunkered down compared to how it was before.
Are you at the fish tomorrow then? Just nipping in / out or loitering? I'm only 12 miles away, but alas, will be at work
I'm leaving it for the day and going out in the loan car to pass the time. It's going to be sunny too
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