Aftermarket VXR8 Head Unit options - opinions sought! :)
Discussion
Hi all, I'm writing this because I'm planning on doing something to my VXR8, and I want to get peoples opinion and whether they want to follow the same route.
I want to replace the head unit with something more up to date. How I approach this I don't know, the problem is the car *needs* the head unit to start, it's immobilised without it (try disconnecting it and turning your ignition on, see what I mean). There are a number of options though;
VE Commodore Series 2 Stereo Upgrade for Series 1 Models
I can't comment extensively on this, Gary Handa has recently done this conversion and will comment shortly I'm sure, but after a quick bit of research this is what I've surmised;
Pros
VE Commodore Integration Solution from Alpine
Pros
LCD HVAC Controller
Pros
(See below links for example pictures)
Pros
It would also allow me to sniff data going back and forth over the vehicles communications network (CANBUS / GMLAN) and also present other data, such as virtual gauges / graphs of what the cars up to. If I wanna see what my fuel trim / intake temperature / water temp is over time I can graph it. If I wanna see what my current ignition timing advance or knock sum is? I can add a digital readout. How about air / fuel ratio or throttle position? Needle gauge.
I could then get quite creative, want on-screen buttons to do batch tasks such as quickly lock the doors and wind up all the windows? Pin protect your car from abuse, put it into a valet / loan mode where the car is limited to 40 MPH and / or 3000 RPM? Have the car automatically roll up the windows when you arm the alarm? Yep, it'd all be possible. Just about everything from our cars is controlled via this network.
This could further be expanded by, say, adding a GPS receiver and a GSM modem, permitting satellite navigation, vehicle tracking, remote kill if the car gets stolen etc.
Tell me if any of this tickles your collective fancies, what your thoughts are, what you'd like to see, what you think does't work etc etc
I want to replace the head unit with something more up to date. How I approach this I don't know, the problem is the car *needs* the head unit to start, it's immobilised without it (try disconnecting it and turning your ignition on, see what I mean). There are a number of options though;
Commercial options
E3 cluster upgrade
VE Commodore Series 2 Stereo Upgrade for Series 1 Models
I can't comment extensively on this, Gary Handa has recently done this conversion and will comment shortly I'm sure, but after a quick bit of research this is what I've surmised;
Pros
- Looks fantastic and modern
- Many new features and retains gauges etc
- Native HVAC controls
- Perfect fitment as it's from the manufacturer
- Dealerships can't bh about you tinkering
- Extremely expensive - pricing incl. delivery and taxes starts around £5k
- Big hassle to fit, requires pulling out a lot of dash parts
- Rare and long lead times from Australia
Alpine double din head unit with separate HVAC controls
VE Commodore Integration Solution from Alpine
Pros
- Drop in solution that'll work straight away, no hacking at wiring etc
- Specifically designed to replace our stock head unit, no gaps / holes etc
- Number of optional extras including navigation, media playback, bluetooth, wheel controls etc
- Dedicated controls for HVAC
- Very expensive - pricing incl. delivery and taxes starts around £2.4k
- Rare with long lead times from Australia
- Visibly ugly - mismatched plastic and those buttons look like something out of a police car or from an industrial machine!
- HVAC interface ugly - looks like something out of a 90s Sci-Fi series
- Buttons have no night time illumination so you'll be fumbling in the dark
- The HVAC controls require a particular, expensive series of Alpine double din head units (included in the prices as quoted though)
Touchscreen HVAC controller
LCD HVAC Controller
Pros
- Not all that expensive, about £350 after shipping and taxes
- Lets you choose what head unit you want
- Visually appealing display with touchscreen interface - easy to use day and night
- Easy to install, just 3 wires to install but they need manually splicing into the loom
- Doesn't include a head unit
- Doesn't include mounting frame, they have to be custom made and examples of these look fugly;
iPad
(See below links for example pictures)
Pros
- Supports a vast amount of software packages / options
- Can be removed easily (also demos above HVAC touchscreen controller), or
- Can be permanently mounted at extra effort (also demos above HVAC touchscreen controller)
- Depending on how it's installed, it doesn't look half bad
- If you don't want the touchscreen, it should be possible to develop an app to remote control a headless HVAC controller that sits behind the iPad / dash (more on this soon)
- Could be used to display vehicle telemetry too with a headless HVAC controller
- Needs an external amplifier for the speakers
- Requires something to replace the HVAC controller such as the touchscreen or another module for the car to be mobile
- Mounting options don't currently look mature to pass as OEM
Homebrew options
- Homemade Touchscreen HVAC controller
- Headless HVAC controller
It would also allow me to sniff data going back and forth over the vehicles communications network (CANBUS / GMLAN) and also present other data, such as virtual gauges / graphs of what the cars up to. If I wanna see what my fuel trim / intake temperature / water temp is over time I can graph it. If I wanna see what my current ignition timing advance or knock sum is? I can add a digital readout. How about air / fuel ratio or throttle position? Needle gauge.
I could then get quite creative, want on-screen buttons to do batch tasks such as quickly lock the doors and wind up all the windows? Pin protect your car from abuse, put it into a valet / loan mode where the car is limited to 40 MPH and / or 3000 RPM? Have the car automatically roll up the windows when you arm the alarm? Yep, it'd all be possible. Just about everything from our cars is controlled via this network.
This could further be expanded by, say, adding a GPS receiver and a GSM modem, permitting satellite navigation, vehicle tracking, remote kill if the car gets stolen etc.
Tell me if any of this tickles your collective fancies, what your thoughts are, what you'd like to see, what you think does't work etc etc
Edited by FoxdieUK on Friday 30th November 15:16
FoxdieUK said:
Luisv8 said:
Love the idea of an iPad, I would defo consider it! By the way, got the cable today, it works fine, thank you.
Heh you're more than welcome, install easy enough then?
ya install was really easy thanks next step is VIM and i'm gonna start looking into this ipod thing now too, if there's was a way to mount the ipod and make it look stock i'd get it right now, the amount of info u'd be able to view and things u could control on it is endless
From the mirror thread on VXROnline;
Devon_VXR said:
If you look on the g8 boards there are users who have done the iPad conversion and run telemetry via apps and also home produced hvac controllers.
Upgrading the head unit does appeal to a number of owners but as you point out the cost of doing this via the commercial options is extremely high so most stick with the oem unit.
If someone can come up with a cost effective solution I am sure there will be a fair few people interested.
Upgrading the head unit does appeal to a number of owners but as you point out the cost of doing this via the commercial options is extremely high so most stick with the oem unit.
If someone can come up with a cost effective solution I am sure there will be a fair few people interested.
Couple of corrections matey About the Alpine solution - will post fully later:
1) You can just buy the surround for c. £300
2) You can fit any Double DIN as long as it has a rear camera input (for HVAC)
3) I think you lose the rear ultrasonic display (but not the beeps)
My solution's not that expensive
1) You can just buy the surround for c. £300
2) You can fit any Double DIN as long as it has a rear camera input (for HVAC)
3) I think you lose the rear ultrasonic display (but not the beeps)
My solution's not that expensive
Gary H 2008 said:
Couple of corrections matey About the Alpine solution - will post fully later:
1) You can just buy the surround for c. £300
2) You can fit any Double DIN as long as it has a rear camera input (for HVAC)
3) I think you lose the rear ultrasonic display (but not the beeps)
My solution's not that expensive
Interesting! Await your response 1) You can just buy the surround for c. £300
2) You can fit any Double DIN as long as it has a rear camera input (for HVAC)
3) I think you lose the rear ultrasonic display (but not the beeps)
My solution's not that expensive
Oh - and the Alpine solution has tiny lights just above the panel (it's recessed ever so slightly)
OK, so my set up...I'm not going to discuss cost as that's rude
However, the basic set up will require the gauge pod that JHP supply (about a third of the cost of their bundle with gauges) and you utilise your own oil temp/pressure and volt gauges and also VIM and the USB/Ipod sockets are a must have.
Bear in mind that my extras are a 4-way AV switch,DAB,DVD/Media player,GPS and Smartphone integration.
So Pros:
Looks brilliant and completely stock appearance
Higher resolution touch widescreen.
Nice animated Holden startup screen.
Choice of blue or red theme (when ordering)
Proper Bluetooth integration with phone book reading and Bluetooth Audio Streaming (BT is now built in rather than an add-on)
RDS on the FM band - and the ability to store FM and AM favourites on the same screen.
Higher sound quality overall.
Single CD slot reads MP3 discs
On board memory (1Gb) allows you to rip and store upto 15 Audio CD's internally.
USB iPod socket gives full control over ipod including playlists etc. Will also read MP3's on a USB stick.
VIM Option comes with dual video input, the 2nd one dedicated for a camera.
VFM? Well if you consider a top of the range Double DIN unit these days from any manufacturer is around £1100...only you can decide that one!
Delivery - about a week door-to-door.
Cons:
-Price - but thats all relative
-Fitting - Although it's a complete plug 'n'play kit it will still take a day to strip if you know what you're doing and if you don't factor in £3-£400 from a Dealer to install. (The cost can be offset a little because there is some resale value in our old Stereo, old bluetooth module and centre binnacle - £2-300 if you're lucky)
-Heating controls/Outside temp only displayed in Fahrenheit. I made a small conversion sticker and stuck it on my sun visor
OK, so my set up...I'm not going to discuss cost as that's rude
However, the basic set up will require the gauge pod that JHP supply (about a third of the cost of their bundle with gauges) and you utilise your own oil temp/pressure and volt gauges and also VIM and the USB/Ipod sockets are a must have.
Bear in mind that my extras are a 4-way AV switch,DAB,DVD/Media player,GPS and Smartphone integration.
So Pros:
Looks brilliant and completely stock appearance
Higher resolution touch widescreen.
Nice animated Holden startup screen.
Choice of blue or red theme (when ordering)
Proper Bluetooth integration with phone book reading and Bluetooth Audio Streaming (BT is now built in rather than an add-on)
RDS on the FM band - and the ability to store FM and AM favourites on the same screen.
Higher sound quality overall.
Single CD slot reads MP3 discs
On board memory (1Gb) allows you to rip and store upto 15 Audio CD's internally.
USB iPod socket gives full control over ipod including playlists etc. Will also read MP3's on a USB stick.
VIM Option comes with dual video input, the 2nd one dedicated for a camera.
VFM? Well if you consider a top of the range Double DIN unit these days from any manufacturer is around £1100...only you can decide that one!
Delivery - about a week door-to-door.
Cons:
-Price - but thats all relative
-Fitting - Although it's a complete plug 'n'play kit it will still take a day to strip if you know what you're doing and if you don't factor in £3-£400 from a Dealer to install. (The cost can be offset a little because there is some resale value in our old Stereo, old bluetooth module and centre binnacle - £2-300 if you're lucky)
-Heating controls/Outside temp only displayed in Fahrenheit. I made a small conversion sticker and stuck it on my sun visor
I could only live with the top one of those 3, but an Ipad/Android solution would be good with the following:
Full HVAC Control
Sat NAV
MP3/USB Connectivity
Media Player
Freeview TV
DAB
OBD Stats (via BT?)
Control From Steering Wheel
External Cam inputs?
Internet Connectivity via 3G (+ Use as discrete tracker with GPS location uploads + maybe to connect externally).
Think thats enough for now
Full HVAC Control
Sat NAV
MP3/USB Connectivity
Media Player
Freeview TV
DAB
OBD Stats (via BT?)
Control From Steering Wheel
External Cam inputs?
Internet Connectivity via 3G (+ Use as discrete tracker with GPS location uploads + maybe to connect externally).
Think thats enough for now
Another option (I think Alpine have already ditched the original option):
http://alpine.com.au/showItem.php?ite
http://alpine.com.au/showItem.php?ite
Well I've been busy, started on another slippery slope; GMLAN CAN-Bus hacking to build a headless HVAC controller;
That's an mbed Microcontroller ( NXP LPC1768) with an SKPang CAN-Bus breakout board, an OBD-II connector and a RS232 serial cable. Also an evenings worth of familiarising myself with mbed programming and throwing together a quick program.
I'm a little bit amused in the fact I was told the above couldn't be done, but there's the proof, I've also confirmed that my cars VIN gets sent across the network
That's an mbed Microcontroller ( NXP LPC1768) with an SKPang CAN-Bus breakout board, an OBD-II connector and a RS232 serial cable. Also an evenings worth of familiarising myself with mbed programming and throwing together a quick program.
I'm a little bit amused in the fact I was told the above couldn't be done, but there's the proof, I've also confirmed that my cars VIN gets sent across the network
Edited by FoxdieUK on Thursday 6th December 11:30
I did a bit of investigation of the gmlan stuff myself with an arduino and a skpang shield. I did all of mine on my old vectra which was canbus but 11bit not what I assume is probably 29bit in the r8 though the principle is the same. I got it to do stuff like open and close the windows with the little joystick thing on the shield but I never progressed much beyond that so i'll be interested to see how you get on. I haven't had the chance to dust if off since I got my r8 to see how it works there.
z0m81e said:
I did a bit of investigation of the gmlan stuff myself with an arduino and a skpang shield. I did all of mine on my old vectra which was canbus but 11bit not what I assume is probably 29bit in the r8 though the principle is the same. I got it to do stuff like open and close the windows with the little joystick thing on the shield but I never progressed much beyond that so i'll be interested to see how you get on. I haven't had the chance to dust if off since I got my r8 to see how it works there.
Yep, the R8 has at least 2 CAN-Bus networks, the main high speed (500kbps) one that most software interfaces with, and GMLAN which is slow (33.3kbps) single-wire. Both are 29bit.You have to tie CAN_L on the transceiver to GND for it to communicate, but I'm wondering if thats why my chime packet isn't transmitting properly though, it may be causing a transmission error.
FoxdieUK said:
You have to tie CAN_L on the transceiver to GND for it to communicate, but I'm wondering if thats why my chime packet isn't transmitting properly though, it may be causing a transmission error.
I did this by soldering the header onto the shield and just putting a little jumper wire between CAN-L and GND. I didn't have any problems with my stuff but I never tried much beyond open/close windows etc just as a trial.
There is a whole bunch of discussion on some of the pontiac g8 and carmodder forums amongst others about doing this and I remember when I was looking at my Vec finding a lot of discussion about chimes but unfortunately it was a while ago and I don't remember exactly where. If you haven't looked already there is some fairly decent stuff on some of the american forums about talking GMLAN and I think the g8 stuff especially is directly relevant. This spreadsheet from one of the forums is also quite handy https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aud1vACFe1cUdGM2WklKWnJQN0JqVkQwWEN5cDIzMXc
Edited by z0m81e on Friday 7th December 16:05
z0m81e said:
I did this by soldering the header onto the shield and just putting a little jumper wire between CAN-L and GND. I didn't have any problems with my stuff but I never tried much beyond open/close windows etc just as a trial.
There is a whole bunch of discussion on some of the pontiac g8 and carmodder forums amongst others about doing this and I remember when I was looking at my Vec finding a lot of discussion about chimes but unfortunately it was a while ago and I don't remember exactly where. If you haven't looked already there is some fairly decent stuff on some of the american forums about talking GMLAN and I think the g8 stuff especially is directly relevant. This spreadsheet from one of the forums is also quite handy https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aud1v...
Heya,There is a whole bunch of discussion on some of the pontiac g8 and carmodder forums amongst others about doing this and I remember when I was looking at my Vec finding a lot of discussion about chimes but unfortunately it was a while ago and I don't remember exactly where. If you haven't looked already there is some fairly decent stuff on some of the american forums about talking GMLAN and I think the g8 stuff especially is directly relevant. This spreadsheet from one of the forums is also quite handy https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aud1v...
Edited by z0m81e on Friday 7th December 16:04
Yep I've got that bible bookmarked amongst other things
I feel I've got enough to start working out how I can replace the HVAC unit, biggest hurdle is being able to successfully send a packet into the network. I'm gonna try sending another type of packet before I go home
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