Advice on first upgrades to Monaro
Discussion
First mode I'd like to do is a 4-1 header & exhaust upgrade to my Monaro - but the Linden one is mild steel ..... really would like a stainless one as i intend to keep the car for some time. Can anybody recommend a company to make one?
I'd like to get the exhaust done first, then do the cai / maf upgrades, and I would like someone to fit a ripshifter for me - how much does installation cost?
I'm very interested in an LS1 edit 'tune' as well to improve the throttle response. Is this available in the UK yet?
>>> Edited by GSE - Monaro V8 on Thursday 12th August 17:51
I'd like to get the exhaust done first, then do the cai / maf upgrades, and I would like someone to fit a ripshifter for me - how much does installation cost?
I'm very interested in an LS1 edit 'tune' as well to improve the throttle response. Is this available in the UK yet?
>>> Edited by GSE - Monaro V8 on Thursday 12th August 17:51
I am sure LSV could supply you with a stainless system as they sell "CAPA" products - www.capa.com.au
Or you could buy direct from OZ. I have a system being made by "Sureflo" who come very highly recommended for their quality and design.
The system is for a Monaro and is cat back in 2.55" marine/food grade stainless (polished) and is costing £596 + shipping and tax, it will come in about £900.
(You could pay less if you sent it by sea, but that takes 6 weeks...........)
It is worth spending some time reading the whole sureflo site as it has a lot of good info - www.surefloexhaust.com.au
Another option is the guy we met at the Ace Cafe who is setting up a Holden garage in London and is stocking up with performance stuff.... (EH*ROB has his details).....
As for "Edit" this new dealer is setting up to offer tunes, but that will be in the future.....so we are still limited!!! I have purchased "HP Tuners" which is a rival to "Edit" and have spent some time getting to know my car!!!!
I think without the correct tune of the PCM in your car after upgrades you are not getting the best from the car, maybe only 80% ......and in some cases much worse!
"pomona" might like to add to this as he uses "Edit" to great success on his supercharged GTS-R.
Or you could buy direct from OZ. I have a system being made by "Sureflo" who come very highly recommended for their quality and design.
The system is for a Monaro and is cat back in 2.55" marine/food grade stainless (polished) and is costing £596 + shipping and tax, it will come in about £900.
(You could pay less if you sent it by sea, but that takes 6 weeks...........)
It is worth spending some time reading the whole sureflo site as it has a lot of good info - www.surefloexhaust.com.au
Another option is the guy we met at the Ace Cafe who is setting up a Holden garage in London and is stocking up with performance stuff.... (EH*ROB has his details).....
As for "Edit" this new dealer is setting up to offer tunes, but that will be in the future.....so we are still limited!!! I have purchased "HP Tuners" which is a rival to "Edit" and have spent some time getting to know my car!!!!
I think without the correct tune of the PCM in your car after upgrades you are not getting the best from the car, maybe only 80% ......and in some cases much worse!
"pomona" might like to add to this as he uses "Edit" to great success on his supercharged GTS-R.
Thanks for the info Paul, this is just what I need.
I've already ordered the ripshifter, and also the braided clutch hose, as I've noticed the pedal does go a bit mushy if you've thrashed the car and the engine bay is very hot ... the combination of the two should improve the gearchange by some margin!
I had an interesting chat with phonsy @ gm motorsport last night - he recommends a UK custom built stainless 2.5" exhaust system where the twin pipes 'merge' after the cats to improve the flow even more.
So my plan so far is to get the exhaust and ripshifter/clutch hose fitted asap (by a garage), and then do the air/maf updates myself. I am a big fan of serial engine programing - phonsy rekons 400 bhp is VERY easy to achieve without any mechanical mods, so i'm looking forward to an 'edit' reprogram.
Where can I get an upgraded air pipe in the uk?
>> Edited by GSE - Monaro V8 on Friday 13th August 10:03
I've already ordered the ripshifter, and also the braided clutch hose, as I've noticed the pedal does go a bit mushy if you've thrashed the car and the engine bay is very hot ... the combination of the two should improve the gearchange by some margin!
I had an interesting chat with phonsy @ gm motorsport last night - he recommends a UK custom built stainless 2.5" exhaust system where the twin pipes 'merge' after the cats to improve the flow even more.
So my plan so far is to get the exhaust and ripshifter/clutch hose fitted asap (by a garage), and then do the air/maf updates myself. I am a big fan of serial engine programing - phonsy rekons 400 bhp is VERY easy to achieve without any mechanical mods, so i'm looking forward to an 'edit' reprogram.
Where can I get an upgraded air pipe in the uk?
>> Edited by GSE - Monaro V8 on Friday 13th August 10:03
If you get a system made over here remember you only want a "mandrel bent" system not the press bent stuff your avarage exhaust shop will give you............
Also the merge should be of a "X" type not the "T" as used in old designs............
Phonsey is right about the 400hp but you need an "Edit" to do it!!!!!!
As for Maf pipes www.jhp.com.au do a HSV one or try CS Performace (link on the web site) for the kevlar one me and "Jagsy" have...............
Also the merge should be of a "X" type not the "T" as used in old designs............
Phonsey is right about the 400hp but you need an "Edit" to do it!!!!!!
As for Maf pipes www.jhp.com.au do a HSV one or try CS Performace (link on the web site) for the kevlar one me and "Jagsy" have...............
AHA - I'll post the answer to my own question taken from the LS1 EDIT site in OZ:
LS1 Edit MAFLESS TUNE is normally favoured by those with competition applications in mind, where the stock maf tube and airbox can be replaced with a full ram air intake system. It puts your otherwise stock Commodore in 'HSV GTS' mode, and allows fine throttle response tuning.
LS1 Edit MAFLESS TUNE requires your vehicle be present on our premises for a complete day, while we remap volumetric and ignition curves to get the best power and driveability from your vehicle. MAFLESS TUNE also requires indepth transmission calibration on automatic transmission equipped vehicles. Specific areas of tuning will include -
VOLUMETRIC EFFICIENCY AND POWER ENRICHMENT
ALL RELEVENT IGNITION TABLES
CAT OVERTEMP PROTECTION RECALIBRATION
MAXIMUM TORQUE/ TORQUE MANAGEMENT RESEST
TRANSMISSION SHIFT CONTROL (auto cars only)
SPEED LIMITER (VU series or UAE vehicles)
FAN SPEED SWITCHING
MAF ERROR CODE REMOVAL
LS1 Edit MAFLESS TUNE is normally favoured by those with competition applications in mind, where the stock maf tube and airbox can be replaced with a full ram air intake system. It puts your otherwise stock Commodore in 'HSV GTS' mode, and allows fine throttle response tuning.
LS1 Edit MAFLESS TUNE requires your vehicle be present on our premises for a complete day, while we remap volumetric and ignition curves to get the best power and driveability from your vehicle. MAFLESS TUNE also requires indepth transmission calibration on automatic transmission equipped vehicles. Specific areas of tuning will include -
VOLUMETRIC EFFICIENCY AND POWER ENRICHMENT
ALL RELEVENT IGNITION TABLES
CAT OVERTEMP PROTECTION RECALIBRATION
MAXIMUM TORQUE/ TORQUE MANAGEMENT RESEST
TRANSMISSION SHIFT CONTROL (auto cars only)
SPEED LIMITER (VU series or UAE vehicles)
FAN SPEED SWITCHING
MAF ERROR CODE REMOVAL
Dan
You were right about the acoustics. I put the car straight into the garage on my return home from Linden and was met at the front door by my wife asking if I'd heard thunder as the washing was on the line.
I'll use the car over the weeekend and give a report on changes sometime next week.
You were right about the acoustics. I put the car straight into the garage on my return home from Linden and was met at the front door by my wife asking if I'd heard thunder as the washing was on the line.
I'll use the car over the weeekend and give a report on changes sometime next week.
Just want,
to put in a bit of feedback here from some of the questions:-
1] larger T/Bodies and modified maf-meters aren't recommended.
2] About 385hp/385lb-ft is pretty easily attainable from the car. Unsure if LS1-intake cars (VT-II) will be in the same ballpark, but won't be down by much.
400hp a bit adventurous, as HSV GTS 300 doesn't make it's claimed power output if the average rear-wheel readings are anything to go by.
[The average in Oz is around 225-230rwkw or 300-308rwhp.
Which means it's around 285kw or 380-390hp at the crank]
3] X-pipe or H-pipe doesn't really matter as long as there's one there; difference between the two is minimal.
4] Pacemaker 1-5/8" Tri-Y headers are a good, popular, well-made choice. 4-into-1's cause a bit of a dip in the torque at around 3000rpm but offer a marginal higher peak reading.
2.5" twin systems by far the most popular and best all-round choice.
**If anyone wants a copy of the headers test that was done by Sam's Performance a while ago, gimme a shout with an e-m address.
(Also have the Cams Test)
--- Sid447 ---
>> Edited by sid447 on Friday 20th August 08:45
to put in a bit of feedback here from some of the questions:-
1] larger T/Bodies and modified maf-meters aren't recommended.
2] About 385hp/385lb-ft is pretty easily attainable from the car. Unsure if LS1-intake cars (VT-II) will be in the same ballpark, but won't be down by much.
400hp a bit adventurous, as HSV GTS 300 doesn't make it's claimed power output if the average rear-wheel readings are anything to go by.
[The average in Oz is around 225-230rwkw or 300-308rwhp.
Which means it's around 285kw or 380-390hp at the crank]
3] X-pipe or H-pipe doesn't really matter as long as there's one there; difference between the two is minimal.
4] Pacemaker 1-5/8" Tri-Y headers are a good, popular, well-made choice. 4-into-1's cause a bit of a dip in the torque at around 3000rpm but offer a marginal higher peak reading.
2.5" twin systems by far the most popular and best all-round choice.
**If anyone wants a copy of the headers test that was done by Sam's Performance a while ago, gimme a shout with an e-m address.
(Also have the Cams Test)
--- Sid447 ---
>> Edited by sid447 on Friday 20th August 08:45
I think better brakes might be a good idea too - i.e brakes that don't fade under heavy application, as you leave a motorway via the off slip and approach a roundabout ...
What do the HSV's have in terms of brakes compared to the standard Monaro - bigger disks, twin pot callipers, harder pads??
What do the HSV's have in terms of brakes compared to the standard Monaro - bigger disks, twin pot callipers, harder pads??
www.apracing.com/roadcar/brakekit/data.asp
Brake Kit for Holden Commadore
Technical Information:
Year 1999-"" Kit Part No. CP5555 - 1027
Caliper CP5555 6 Pot Disc Part Number & Size
Pad Part Number CP3718-1068/7G8M,
Ø362 x 32mm, 8 groove, 48 Vane.
CP3894D51-DS2500.
Brake Kit for Holden Commadore
Technical Information:
Year 1999-"" Kit Part No. CP5555 - 1027
Caliper CP5555 6 Pot Disc Part Number & Size
Pad Part Number CP3718-1068/7G8M,
Ø362 x 32mm, 8 groove, 48 Vane.
CP3894D51-DS2500.
Street Commodores mag has recently done an excellent summary of headers - not saying which is good or bad just summarising for reference.
Pacemaker seem very popular down underwith the right dimenionn, but only do it in mild steel.
Darren Phillipo (link on web site) do the same size in heat protected coating in stainless for a very simial price. IS THIS THE ONE THAT CAPA SUPPLY AND TO LSV????
After reading the comparisons and summaries I'll be going for one of the above.....
Pacemaker seem very popular down underwith the right dimenionn, but only do it in mild steel.
Darren Phillipo (link on web site) do the same size in heat protected coating in stainless for a very simial price. IS THIS THE ONE THAT CAPA SUPPLY AND TO LSV????
After reading the comparisons and summaries I'll be going for one of the above.....
I would like to thank mark at LSV.
For fiting the stage 3 performance upgrade
Parts list
cold air inlet system
maff less ecu tune
80mm throttle body
1.8 ratio billet roller rockers
4-1 large bore headers
stainless steel 2.5 ince capa exhaust
cat replacement pipes
It only took two days. But its now over 420 bhp witch
makes it money well spent. And the exhaust tune to die
for. bring on the m3s. Next thing i need is the big brakes to stop it. But marks at linden has that in hand.
AND THANKS TO MARK AT LINDEN SPECIAL VEHICLES.
For fiting the stage 3 performance upgrade
Parts list
cold air inlet system
maff less ecu tune
80mm throttle body
1.8 ratio billet roller rockers
4-1 large bore headers
stainless steel 2.5 ince capa exhaust
cat replacement pipes
It only took two days. But its now over 420 bhp witch
makes it money well spent. And the exhaust tune to die
for. bring on the m3s. Next thing i need is the big brakes to stop it. But marks at linden has that in hand.
AND THANKS TO MARK AT LINDEN SPECIAL VEHICLES.
Yeah well check out www.comeracing.com they are quite well known down under and their comments on the MAF issue are..
"Our latest feature highlights our continuing development of our LS1 383 Stroker engine and components range.
This customer engine is basically designed for street and strip use. The engine features our new crank kit with optional "CP" custom made forged pistons for higher rpm use. Our latest cam designs are employed along with fully ported production LS1 heads.
Note the use of a factory MAF sensor attached directly to the stock production throttle body and VX model LS6 intake manifold. Our previous testing has shown the stock MAF to be almost irrelevant in the restriction area and totally capable of producing upwards of 550 bhp.
Glen Everitt from G&D Performance (03 5996 1813) provided the software tune to enable this engine to make 530 plus BHP (395kw) and over 500ft.lbs torque(678NM). Figures are in the room with ambient conditions of about 3000ft above sea level(see dyno sheet)."
I take it from the comment above mine that Linden do do "LS1 Edit" or similar PCM reprograming now? Can someone confirm this, also what they charge for a tune?
Thanks
Rich
"Our latest feature highlights our continuing development of our LS1 383 Stroker engine and components range.
This customer engine is basically designed for street and strip use. The engine features our new crank kit with optional "CP" custom made forged pistons for higher rpm use. Our latest cam designs are employed along with fully ported production LS1 heads.
Note the use of a factory MAF sensor attached directly to the stock production throttle body and VX model LS6 intake manifold. Our previous testing has shown the stock MAF to be almost irrelevant in the restriction area and totally capable of producing upwards of 550 bhp.
Glen Everitt from G&D Performance (03 5996 1813) provided the software tune to enable this engine to make 530 plus BHP (395kw) and over 500ft.lbs torque(678NM). Figures are in the room with ambient conditions of about 3000ft above sea level(see dyno sheet)."
I take it from the comment above mine that Linden do do "LS1 Edit" or similar PCM reprograming now? Can someone confirm this, also what they charge for a tune?
Thanks
Rich
I've had the Linden stage 2 390 bhp upgrade and the Ripshifter fitted. I waited until I'd covered 4000 miles to let the engine loosen up a bit, and so that I could get a feel of the standard car (and the mpg...) so as to get a good comparison after the upgrade was done.
Firstly, the accoustics of the new exhaust (full CAPA complete stainless system inc headers and de-cat pipes) - AWESOME! You could just not hear the engine properly before, the standard exhaust is so quiet, but now .... WOW! You're no longer embarrased when you pull up at a set of lights beside a TVR
However, it's not too loud under certain driving conditions - whilst crusing there is hardly any 'boom' so I'm pleased. Has a nice 'zing' to is as you pull away too. It's a beautiful looking system - the manifolds look great under the bonnet.
The recalibrated MAF meter gives the engine a far far crisper throttle response - that 'fluffy' feel at part throttle settings has gone, and it pulls much cleaner. It always used to pull hard, but now it pulls much harder, in ALL the gears. Pulls in 5th like it was in 3rd before.
An added bonus is that the fuel consumption has dropped slightly - got 23mpg on my 150 mile trip up to linden and 25 on the way back.
The ripshifter - well, it certainly improves the feel of the gear selection, it gives you more confidence that you are going to get the right gear during a quick shift although it does nothing for the general agricultural feel of the box, and the lever requires quite a shove between gears. One downside is that the mechanism makes a strage rattling/grinding noise which I've tried to damp out using some additional foam around the gear console. The braided clutch hose has stopped the clutch pedal going mushy if you've been stuck in traffic for a while - heat soak under the bonnet affects the standard rubber hose.
The cold air intake has yet to be fitted, the car is due back at Linden for this to be done, and to reposition the exhaust a bit, as when the engine twists over with that extra torque, sometimes the manifold knocks on the o/s chassis rail...
Inside the car I replaced both front and rear speakers with Infiniti 6.5" units - the fronts have seperate tweeters mounted on the tops of the doors and they give a huge improvement in sound quality and imaging - just couldn't hear the standard fit dash tweeters at all. The standard fit Blaukpunkt head unit seems a half decent unit, it's let down badly by the Korean speakers - change 'em and you'll soon hear the difference! Still stuck with the problem of no RDS and no aux in so I've fitted a 4x47w Kenwood unit - and my 60gb MP3 system - the sound is even better! I've also finally sourced at dash panel DIN adaptor from the states (for the GTO) although I haven't fitted it yet. Also I need a cable adaptor so that the steering wheel controls will work the Kenwood unit. Would it be the same as an Omega one? (hopefully!)
All in all rather pleased with the upgrades to the Monaro - it completely transforms the car An 'edit' tune should improve it further.
Looking forward to the run to Billing - hope the sun shines!
>> Edited by GSE - Monaro V8 on Saturday 18th September 22:38
Firstly, the accoustics of the new exhaust (full CAPA complete stainless system inc headers and de-cat pipes) - AWESOME! You could just not hear the engine properly before, the standard exhaust is so quiet, but now .... WOW! You're no longer embarrased when you pull up at a set of lights beside a TVR
However, it's not too loud under certain driving conditions - whilst crusing there is hardly any 'boom' so I'm pleased. Has a nice 'zing' to is as you pull away too. It's a beautiful looking system - the manifolds look great under the bonnet. The recalibrated MAF meter gives the engine a far far crisper throttle response - that 'fluffy' feel at part throttle settings has gone, and it pulls much cleaner. It always used to pull hard, but now it pulls much harder, in ALL the gears. Pulls in 5th like it was in 3rd before.
An added bonus is that the fuel consumption has dropped slightly - got 23mpg on my 150 mile trip up to linden and 25 on the way back.
The ripshifter - well, it certainly improves the feel of the gear selection, it gives you more confidence that you are going to get the right gear during a quick shift
although it does nothing for the general agricultural feel of the box, and the lever requires quite a shove between gears. One downside is that the mechanism makes a strage rattling/grinding noise which I've tried to damp out using some additional foam around the gear console. The braided clutch hose has stopped the clutch pedal going mushy if you've been stuck in traffic for a while - heat soak under the bonnet affects the standard rubber hose. The cold air intake has yet to be fitted, the car is due back at Linden for this to be done, and to reposition the exhaust a bit, as when the engine twists over with that extra torque, sometimes the manifold knocks on the o/s chassis rail...
Inside the car I replaced both front and rear speakers with Infiniti 6.5" units - the fronts have seperate tweeters mounted on the tops of the doors and they give a huge improvement in sound quality and imaging - just couldn't hear the standard fit dash tweeters at all. The standard fit Blaukpunkt head unit seems a half decent unit, it's let down badly by the Korean speakers - change 'em and you'll soon hear the difference! Still stuck with the problem of no RDS and no aux in so I've fitted a 4x47w Kenwood unit - and my 60gb MP3 system - the sound is even better! I've also finally sourced at dash panel DIN adaptor from the states (for the GTO) although I haven't fitted it yet. Also I need a cable adaptor so that the steering wheel controls will work the Kenwood unit. Would it be the same as an Omega one? (hopefully!)
All in all rather pleased with the upgrades to the Monaro - it completely transforms the car
An 'edit' tune should improve it further. Looking forward to the run to Billing - hope the sun shines!
>> Edited by GSE - Monaro V8 on Saturday 18th September 22:38
The Rip Shifter fitted to my car had the opposite effect on noise. The gar box and shift noise inside the cabin is now normal compared to other cars. The only gear that is difficult to select is reverse when the engine is not on. I don't think this is unreasonable as spinning cogs should be easier to select, it is fin with the engine running. I know my car is slightly different but this shouldn’t make that much difference.
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