Considering a GranTurismo
Discussion
Currently driving a 5.0 Jaguar XKR, had this one for three and a bit years and had a 4.2 XKR for five years before that. Great cars but after nearly nine years in essentially the same car I'm getting itchy feet.
I've always loved the look of the GranTurismo and having spent a bit of time on Autotrader, looks like I should be able to get into a 4.7. Maybe a silly question but is the 4.7 significantly better/more powerful than the 4.2? Do the variator issues described in the PH Buying Guide affect the 4.7 as well? Anything else to watch out for, issues-wise?
I did drive a 4.7 MC Shift S car last year and was a bit disappointed - partially this was due to the MC Shift transmission - I get the appeal when "on it" but in everyday use the ZF 'box in my XKR is much more usable, so I'd be looking for an auto rather than MC Shift car. The other thing was that I didn't find the car that quick - compared to my car the Maserati is down quite a bit on power but the 0-60 times aren't that dissimilar. The GranTurismo I drove did have the EML showing though so could have been in some sort of restricted performance mode perhaps?
Keen to try a 4.7 (in good, working order) with the ZF auto, for anyone who's had/driven both transmissions, does the ZF lose anything compared to the MC Shift? And I guess, is there anyone here who's had an XKR and gone to the GranTurismo - how did you find the Maserati compared to the Jaguar?
I've always loved the look of the GranTurismo and having spent a bit of time on Autotrader, looks like I should be able to get into a 4.7. Maybe a silly question but is the 4.7 significantly better/more powerful than the 4.2? Do the variator issues described in the PH Buying Guide affect the 4.7 as well? Anything else to watch out for, issues-wise?
I did drive a 4.7 MC Shift S car last year and was a bit disappointed - partially this was due to the MC Shift transmission - I get the appeal when "on it" but in everyday use the ZF 'box in my XKR is much more usable, so I'd be looking for an auto rather than MC Shift car. The other thing was that I didn't find the car that quick - compared to my car the Maserati is down quite a bit on power but the 0-60 times aren't that dissimilar. The GranTurismo I drove did have the EML showing though so could have been in some sort of restricted performance mode perhaps?
Keen to try a 4.7 (in good, working order) with the ZF auto, for anyone who's had/driven both transmissions, does the ZF lose anything compared to the MC Shift? And I guess, is there anyone here who's had an XKR and gone to the GranTurismo - how did you find the Maserati compared to the Jaguar?
Variators were redesigned on later engines - there’s an engine number that comes up on google at the point at which updated parts were fitted from factory. 148-something from memory. Think it was year 2011-ish and you could be right about 4.7 not being affected but worth googling.
Post facelift cars (2013+) with the ZF do pretty awesome auto blips on downshifts, earlier ZFs don’t. Mine is a 2013 ZF ‘MC Autoshift’, it’s a great gearbox although I haven’t tried an MC… the full throttle changes on the robotised manual are supposed to be pretty hardcore… but they’re not as easygoing in traffic plus there’s clutch wear to consider.
Biggies to check are brakes - front discs and pads are silly money, and front subframes rot and need a good looking at when buying, and never let the seller start the engine until you’ve checked the car and the paperwork as there’s a definite TVR effect - engine starts, wallet opens
Post facelift cars (2013+) with the ZF do pretty awesome auto blips on downshifts, earlier ZFs don’t. Mine is a 2013 ZF ‘MC Autoshift’, it’s a great gearbox although I haven’t tried an MC… the full throttle changes on the robotised manual are supposed to be pretty hardcore… but they’re not as easygoing in traffic plus there’s clutch wear to consider.
Biggies to check are brakes - front discs and pads are silly money, and front subframes rot and need a good looking at when buying, and never let the seller start the engine until you’ve checked the car and the paperwork as there’s a definite TVR effect - engine starts, wallet opens
OK I see - on my old 4.2 XKR, if the battery charge was low on startup then sometimes the transmission wouldn't blip on downshifts which would mean slow, somewhat less smooth downshifts. I think I need to try a ZF-equipped car and see what it's like.
I thought there were only two different transmissions in these - the MC Shift automated manual and the ZF 6HP auto - when you say "Mine is a 2013 ZF ‘MC Autoshift’," is that another thing entirely? Or is that just Maserati nomenclature for the ZF-equipped cars.
I thought there were only two different transmissions in these - the MC Shift automated manual and the ZF 6HP auto - when you say "Mine is a 2013 ZF ‘MC Autoshift’," is that another thing entirely? Or is that just Maserati nomenclature for the ZF-equipped cars.
Yeah there’s just two - MC Shift is the robotised manual - centre console has buttons, and the MC Autoshift which is the ZF torque converter automatic - centre console has a gear knob. Grancabrio only ever had Autoshift. All have paddles.
Autotrader and dealers have a habit of getting titles completely wrong so checking for buttons vs knob is the safest way to work out what a cars got rather than relying on description.
Autotrader and dealers have a habit of getting titles completely wrong so checking for buttons vs knob is the safest way to work out what a cars got rather than relying on description.
Just chipping in here because I’m also looking at GT’s currently.
I thought there was actually 3 different gearboxes but very happy to be corrected:
1. Auto (slush box) from 2007-2012/13(?)
2. MC Shift - robotised manual with paddles only
3. MC Auto - newer ZF auto with elements of MC(???) - 2012/13 onwards (auto gear selector + paddles)
I thought there was actually 3 different gearboxes but very happy to be corrected:
1. Auto (slush box) from 2007-2012/13(?)
2. MC Shift - robotised manual with paddles only
3. MC Auto - newer ZF auto with elements of MC(???) - 2012/13 onwards (auto gear selector + paddles)
Buy one. Had a 2016 Sport 4.7 MC Auto Shift from new and still miss it even though I just picked up a Roma in November.
A few notes:
I never drove the 4.2 but given my experience with the 4.7, I'd never consider a 4.2. The 4.7 is fairly quick but at higher speeds it's noticeably not what I'd call properly fast and that's with 60bhp more than the 4.2. 1st to 3rd gear are a great experience though. Having also owned several cars over the years my personal feeling is that sub 5 seconds to 60 feels quite different from over 5 seconds whereas to me a 6 second car feels pretty similar to a 7 second one.
Engine needs to have its neck wrung a bit to do its best work but it's great fun getting to the upper echelons of the rev range and one of the best sounding engines this side of a 458.
Super unleaded makes a difference in both the peak bhp and smoothness of the idle. Particularly given the introduction of E10, I'd never put anything other than super in it these days.
MC Auto Shift is a slushbox with paddles but good fun to use and although theoretically slower than the robo both to 60 and in gear change speed, suits the character of the car well and is a peach to drive in auto mode around town at lower speeds which the robo (and the Roma!) just can't compete with.
Get one from before the horrible facelift that put straight edges around the front grille.
Big car, careful with the wheels in multi-storey's, I made quite a bit of use of the wheel insurance I took out!
Drove it to Germany once and got upto 160 on the autobahn, stable and easy to drive and definitely had the legs to keep going but that was fast enough for me.
Above all, enjoy, I'm jealous! Post pics of what you test drive/get!
Mine while it was awaiting collection:
A few notes:
I never drove the 4.2 but given my experience with the 4.7, I'd never consider a 4.2. The 4.7 is fairly quick but at higher speeds it's noticeably not what I'd call properly fast and that's with 60bhp more than the 4.2. 1st to 3rd gear are a great experience though. Having also owned several cars over the years my personal feeling is that sub 5 seconds to 60 feels quite different from over 5 seconds whereas to me a 6 second car feels pretty similar to a 7 second one.
Engine needs to have its neck wrung a bit to do its best work but it's great fun getting to the upper echelons of the rev range and one of the best sounding engines this side of a 458.
Super unleaded makes a difference in both the peak bhp and smoothness of the idle. Particularly given the introduction of E10, I'd never put anything other than super in it these days.
MC Auto Shift is a slushbox with paddles but good fun to use and although theoretically slower than the robo both to 60 and in gear change speed, suits the character of the car well and is a peach to drive in auto mode around town at lower speeds which the robo (and the Roma!) just can't compete with.
Get one from before the horrible facelift that put straight edges around the front grille.
Big car, careful with the wheels in multi-storey's, I made quite a bit of use of the wheel insurance I took out!
Drove it to Germany once and got upto 160 on the autobahn, stable and easy to drive and definitely had the legs to keep going but that was fast enough for me.
Above all, enjoy, I'm jealous! Post pics of what you test drive/get!
Mine while it was awaiting collection:
stub101 said:
Just chipping in here because I’m also looking at GT’s currently.
I thought there was actually 3 different gearboxes but very happy to be corrected:
1. Auto (slush box) from 2007-2012/13(?)
2. MC Shift - robotised manual with paddles only
3. MC Auto - newer ZF auto with elements of MC(???) - 2012/13 onwards (auto gear selector + paddles)
It is designed deliberately to confuse I think. 1 and 3 are the same ZF, but post 2013 facelift cars got blips on downshifts (and maybe different software and possibly bigger paddles?).I thought there was actually 3 different gearboxes but very happy to be corrected:
1. Auto (slush box) from 2007-2012/13(?)
2. MC Shift - robotised manual with paddles only
3. MC Auto - newer ZF auto with elements of MC(???) - 2012/13 onwards (auto gear selector + paddles)
Anything with a knob is ZF auto, anything with console buttons is robotised manual. They may have changed the name from Auto to MC Auto Shift but they're the same 'box.
Loads of ads list cars as MC Shift (robotised manual) when they're actually MC Autoshift = ZF.
Mine's an MC Autoshift (ZF) and actually for sale - on Autotrader it automatically lists it as MC Shift with no way of correcting it which is daft!
Edited by andy43 on Friday 1st April 08:52
Having owned a 4.2, a 4.7 MC Shift & a MC Stradale. I'd recommend the 4.7MC Shift as the best bang for your buck.
The 4.2 is fine.. for posing, but drive them back to back and they feel like different cars.
I think it's roughly 09 onwards is a good chance of variator fixed cars, as mentioned above, check the engine number and you can avoid the risk
The 4.2 is fine.. for posing, but drive them back to back and they feel like different cars.
I think it's roughly 09 onwards is a good chance of variator fixed cars, as mentioned above, check the engine number and you can avoid the risk
8Bit
I'm 8 years in with a 4.2 with a ZF box. I remember at the time of buying there was a 4.2 or 4.7 wobble...
By no means is the 4.2 slow, it does the blips and makes the noise... it is more than adequate.
I prefer the four tail pipe look of the 4.2 and the chrome detailing of the earlier models. Mine has been incredibly reliable and I use it for long haul trips, as a GT it is spot on.
I guess coming from an XKR you might feel that the interior isn't as well put together, certainly compared to my Mercedes it feels a bit cheap inside, but despite that I love it and think the design is absolutely timeless...
There is also a certain cache....
I'm 8 years in with a 4.2 with a ZF box. I remember at the time of buying there was a 4.2 or 4.7 wobble...
By no means is the 4.2 slow, it does the blips and makes the noise... it is more than adequate.
I prefer the four tail pipe look of the 4.2 and the chrome detailing of the earlier models. Mine has been incredibly reliable and I use it for long haul trips, as a GT it is spot on.
I guess coming from an XKR you might feel that the interior isn't as well put together, certainly compared to my Mercedes it feels a bit cheap inside, but despite that I love it and think the design is absolutely timeless...
There is also a certain cache....
stub101 said:
Just chipping in here because I’m also looking at GT’s currently.
I thought there was actually 3 different gearboxes but very happy to be corrected:
1. Auto (slush box) from 2007-2012/13(?)
2. MC Shift - robotised manual with paddles only
3. MC Auto - newer ZF auto with elements of MC(???) - 2012/13 onwards (auto gear selector + paddles)
3 is the same as 1 but with some more aggressive software in sport mode. Other than that no difference.I thought there was actually 3 different gearboxes but very happy to be corrected:
1. Auto (slush box) from 2007-2012/13(?)
2. MC Shift - robotised manual with paddles only
3. MC Auto - newer ZF auto with elements of MC(???) - 2012/13 onwards (auto gear selector + paddles)
I haven't owned the Jaguar but I have driven one quite a bit.
They feel largely similar in terms of performance and share a bit on a 'traditional' feel inside.
If the car is fast enough for you will depend largely on what type of driving you do and what type of driver you are, I would think that you will be happy with it if you are happy with the XKR and not if you aren't.
My GT was a 4.2 and whilst plenty fast ENOUGH it certainly isn't FAST, though it did look and sound lovely.
A few of the interior trims are a bit cheap feeling but the seats and wheel in particular are great and it feels more spacious inside than the XKR.
They feel largely similar in terms of performance and share a bit on a 'traditional' feel inside.
If the car is fast enough for you will depend largely on what type of driving you do and what type of driver you are, I would think that you will be happy with it if you are happy with the XKR and not if you aren't.
My GT was a 4.2 and whilst plenty fast ENOUGH it certainly isn't FAST, though it did look and sound lovely.
A few of the interior trims are a bit cheap feeling but the seats and wheel in particular are great and it feels more spacious inside than the XKR.
stub101 said:
EC2 said:
3 is the same as 1 but with some more aggressive software in sport mode. Other than that no difference.
That’s really helpful to know although I’m focussed on a 2012/13 facelift car - where most seem to have the MC auto. Was the MC Shift dropped around 2012/13?
I've got an 08 4.2.
For me it is all the car someone could want. Looks great, sounds great, goes great, is just great.
We are spoilt for performance in today's society and lots of snobbery with the 0-60 time.
I find the car to be well balanced and enjoyable to drive. I use manual mode on the auto box all the time. Gearing is a tad long, so to really hear the engine you are using second to third lots. Third is in trouble speeds, so if I could change one thing, the gearing, but then you won't have the top speed.
Things to look out for:
Subframe. These can rust. They can be treated, but you're looking at £3k from a specialist fitted and that's without other parts.
Electrics. There are some niggles. Parking sensors, boot catches and horn are three of mine.
Owners. Lots of these cars have lots of owners which tells me people buy them, get scared off and sell.
Servicing. Depends what you're spending, but basic servicing can be done by yourself or most garages. A specialist will help identify known issues. They will also take your money.
Overall the car has plenty of power to be enjoyed. There's quite an effort needed to unsettle the car, it has really effective balance.
I don't feel the weight that people talk about and I've owned some sub 1tonne cars. I think they are a decent handling fun motor.
Big thing, lots of people say, wow Maserati. You don't get that with a Porsche.
On that note, buy for you and no one else. The purists will have their opinion, try to frighten you with bills and tales of woe.
Some bargain priced cars, they won't all have bargain price issues.
If you're Midlands based, welcome to meet with nine at C&M or similar.
For me it is all the car someone could want. Looks great, sounds great, goes great, is just great.
We are spoilt for performance in today's society and lots of snobbery with the 0-60 time.
I find the car to be well balanced and enjoyable to drive. I use manual mode on the auto box all the time. Gearing is a tad long, so to really hear the engine you are using second to third lots. Third is in trouble speeds, so if I could change one thing, the gearing, but then you won't have the top speed.
Things to look out for:
Subframe. These can rust. They can be treated, but you're looking at £3k from a specialist fitted and that's without other parts.
Electrics. There are some niggles. Parking sensors, boot catches and horn are three of mine.
Owners. Lots of these cars have lots of owners which tells me people buy them, get scared off and sell.
Servicing. Depends what you're spending, but basic servicing can be done by yourself or most garages. A specialist will help identify known issues. They will also take your money.
Overall the car has plenty of power to be enjoyed. There's quite an effort needed to unsettle the car, it has really effective balance.
I don't feel the weight that people talk about and I've owned some sub 1tonne cars. I think they are a decent handling fun motor.
Big thing, lots of people say, wow Maserati. You don't get that with a Porsche.
On that note, buy for you and no one else. The purists will have their opinion, try to frighten you with bills and tales of woe.
Some bargain priced cars, they won't all have bargain price issues.
If you're Midlands based, welcome to meet with nine at C&M or similar.
Lots of different views on here - but you need to make your own mind up based on what's important to you. If you want to test drive a sorted car, then believe it or not but a Maserati Main Dealer is the place to start.
Like an earlier poster, I prefer the look of the quad tailpipes, but I also really don't like the chrome trim that goes with it. So I started looking for a "Sport" model which doesn't have the chrome trim (but also doesn't have quad tailpipes)
I looked at one car that had the perforated seats, and despite the rest of the car being spot on, I decided that I really couldn't live with them.
You can find cars with some quite lairy interiors - especially when you start to get the 2 colour interiors with Alcantara in the mix - you'll need to make your own mind up about these.
Sport mode (not sure if all models have this) makes a massive difference to how fast the car FEELS, but I suspect it makes zero difference to how fast the car actually goes (if you nail the throttle).
Even the 460hp 4.7 isn't actually that quick - my 156 GTA FEELS quicker to 60 (although I'm sure it isn't). A Golf R will leave you standing during normal driving. However, in theory the Maserati will keep going to 186.
If you're not sure what you want, talk to Richard Grace at Richard Grace Cars. His advice is well worth listening to. When I spoke to him he didn't have anything available that met my requirements, but he was perfectly happy to talk through the pros and cons of other cars on the market and gave me some solid advice on what would have been an expensive mistake (buying a 2 year old car from a main dealer using their PCP finance).
Like an earlier poster, I prefer the look of the quad tailpipes, but I also really don't like the chrome trim that goes with it. So I started looking for a "Sport" model which doesn't have the chrome trim (but also doesn't have quad tailpipes)
I looked at one car that had the perforated seats, and despite the rest of the car being spot on, I decided that I really couldn't live with them.
You can find cars with some quite lairy interiors - especially when you start to get the 2 colour interiors with Alcantara in the mix - you'll need to make your own mind up about these.
Sport mode (not sure if all models have this) makes a massive difference to how fast the car FEELS, but I suspect it makes zero difference to how fast the car actually goes (if you nail the throttle).
Even the 460hp 4.7 isn't actually that quick - my 156 GTA FEELS quicker to 60 (although I'm sure it isn't). A Golf R will leave you standing during normal driving. However, in theory the Maserati will keep going to 186.
If you're not sure what you want, talk to Richard Grace at Richard Grace Cars. His advice is well worth listening to. When I spoke to him he didn't have anything available that met my requirements, but he was perfectly happy to talk through the pros and cons of other cars on the market and gave me some solid advice on what would have been an expensive mistake (buying a 2 year old car from a main dealer using their PCP finance).
stub101 said:
EC2 said:
3 is the same as 1 but with some more aggressive software in sport mode. Other than that no difference.
That’s really helpful to know although I’m focussed on a 2012/13 facelift car - where most seem to have the MC auto. Was the MC Shift dropped around 2012/13?
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