1.6 SOHC In 416GSi - Engine Check
Discussion
My problem is this.
The Rover started to have serious starting issues (maybe only in the wet).
Turns over like a dream just won't catch. Sometimes when it starts it runs like a dream. Sometimes it will run badly. Won't pick up revs. Utterly gutless. Ticks over fine.
On one occasion, following a difficult to start the engine check light came on but this was after symptoms disappeared. I switched off and restarted and it went off.
Soon after starting the car runs fine.
After three days of bad starting I did the obvious thing. Replaced HT's. Checked the plugs, cleaned the inside of the dizzy cap & rotor arm. It now starts fine but of course the weather's become dry so no idea if the original problem was HT CCT. The old HTs did have signs of perishing, inside of dizzy cap was dry.
Problem is we drive in to work this sunny am enjoying the benefits of new HT's when the engine check light comes on. THis occurs after the car has reached normal temp. Switching off and restarting doesn't get rid of it. (I can hear a relay when it goes off - is that normal) Car runs fine.
Questions are:
1) Could poor quality/incorrect length HT's cause the engine check light to come on?
2) Is it worth getting a garage to tell me the error code?
3) Do the Halfords devices that interrogate the management system work?
4) Can I just ignore the light?
5) I noticed a dowel for a pipe on the dizzy cap. There was no pipe connected to it. Should there be anything other that 4 HT's going into the DIzzy cap?
Some background: In the past, periodically it would become 'gutless' when trying to pull out after sitting in traffic queuing at the top of my road - always went away after 3 seconds and drove normally again. I ignored it because it happened so rarely. Dunno if this is relevant.
The Rover started to have serious starting issues (maybe only in the wet).
Turns over like a dream just won't catch. Sometimes when it starts it runs like a dream. Sometimes it will run badly. Won't pick up revs. Utterly gutless. Ticks over fine.
On one occasion, following a difficult to start the engine check light came on but this was after symptoms disappeared. I switched off and restarted and it went off.
Soon after starting the car runs fine.
After three days of bad starting I did the obvious thing. Replaced HT's. Checked the plugs, cleaned the inside of the dizzy cap & rotor arm. It now starts fine but of course the weather's become dry so no idea if the original problem was HT CCT. The old HTs did have signs of perishing, inside of dizzy cap was dry.
Problem is we drive in to work this sunny am enjoying the benefits of new HT's when the engine check light comes on. THis occurs after the car has reached normal temp. Switching off and restarting doesn't get rid of it. (I can hear a relay when it goes off - is that normal) Car runs fine.
Questions are:
1) Could poor quality/incorrect length HT's cause the engine check light to come on?
2) Is it worth getting a garage to tell me the error code?
3) Do the Halfords devices that interrogate the management system work?
4) Can I just ignore the light?
5) I noticed a dowel for a pipe on the dizzy cap. There was no pipe connected to it. Should there be anything other that 4 HT's going into the DIzzy cap?
Some background: In the past, periodically it would become 'gutless' when trying to pull out after sitting in traffic queuing at the top of my road - always went away after 3 seconds and drove normally again. I ignored it because it happened so rarely. Dunno if this is relevant.
Theres a check light located on the ecu for these cars.
Its located in the passenger footwell under the front of the carpet.
If you remove the metal bracket that holds the ecu down, youll see a red and a yellow led.
The red one is the ecu code light.
Turn on the ignition and look at the sequence of flashes.
Yous should see something like 1-2-1 etc.
And then itll repeat.
You may have more than one number stored in the ecu so youll obviously get more flashes out.
Just jot em down on paper and check to see if they repeat.
Then post em here and ill look em up and youll know what the ecu has found.
HTH.
Its located in the passenger footwell under the front of the carpet.
If you remove the metal bracket that holds the ecu down, youll see a red and a yellow led.
The red one is the ecu code light.
Turn on the ignition and look at the sequence of flashes.
Yous should see something like 1-2-1 etc.
And then itll repeat.
You may have more than one number stored in the ecu so youll obviously get more flashes out.
Just jot em down on paper and check to see if they repeat.
Then post em here and ill look em up and youll know what the ecu has found.
HTH.
deltaf said:
Theres a check light located on the ecu for these cars.
Its located in the passenger footwell under the front of the carpet.
If you remove the metal bracket that holds the ecu down, youll see a red and a yellow led.
The red one is the ecu code light.
Turn on the ignition and look at the sequence of flashes.
Yous should see something like 1-2-1 etc.
And then itll repeat.
You may have more than one number stored in the ecu so youll obviously get more flashes out.
Just jot em down on paper and check to see if they repeat.
Then post em here and ill look em up and youll know what the ecu has found.
HTH.
Will do this tonight!
Will be owing you a beer most probably.
Delta f:
Pattern is 13 equal period flashes (prolly short), then a gap.
Pattern repeated over and over.
All starting problems have been solved by the new HT's. (Rain here to prove the point now)
Check engine light was off on the way to work today.
>> Edited by toad_oftoadhall on Wednesday 26th November 08:56
Pattern is 13 equal period flashes (prolly short), then a gap.
Pattern repeated over and over.
All starting problems have been solved by the new HT's. (Rain here to prove the point now)
Check engine light was off on the way to work today.
>> Edited by toad_oftoadhall on Wednesday 26th November 08:56
Hi toad.
Code 13 relates to the atmosheric pressure sensor.
Unfortunately i dont have a diagram as to its fitted location.
Note: This is NOT the MAP (manifold atmospheric pressure sensor).
Its either: disconnected, open or short circuited, or other fault.
I do have the checking method if you can find the sensor.
Engine at normal temp, cooling fan having switched on and off once.
Switch OFF ignition.
Switch ON ignition.
Connect voltmeter/dvm to terminals 2(green/white) and 1 (red/white) with the sensor multiplug still connected to the sensor.
You should have 3.0 volts present which will change according to atmospheric pressure.
From the above code you can see that there IS a fault stored in the ecu.
Whether its actually present or not is another thing.
To erase the ecu memory, disconnect the battery earth lead for 15 seconds at least then reconnect it.
Dont forget youll lose your radio code/stations tho.
Hope this helps.
Code 13 relates to the atmosheric pressure sensor.
Unfortunately i dont have a diagram as to its fitted location.
Note: This is NOT the MAP (manifold atmospheric pressure sensor).
Its either: disconnected, open or short circuited, or other fault.
I do have the checking method if you can find the sensor.
Engine at normal temp, cooling fan having switched on and off once.
Switch OFF ignition.
Switch ON ignition.
Connect voltmeter/dvm to terminals 2(green/white) and 1 (red/white) with the sensor multiplug still connected to the sensor.
You should have 3.0 volts present which will change according to atmospheric pressure.
From the above code you can see that there IS a fault stored in the ecu.
Whether its actually present or not is another thing.
To erase the ecu memory, disconnect the battery earth lead for 15 seconds at least then reconnect it.
Dont forget youll lose your radio code/stations tho.
Hope this helps.
Deltaf said: "Code 13 relates to the atmosheric pressure sensor.
Unfortunately i dont have a diagram as to its fitted location.
Note: This is NOT the MAP (manifold atmospheric pressure sensor).
Its either: disconnected, open or short circuited, or other fault. "
Just been told by a garage that 13 flashes *is* the SMP Manifold [something].
Part ADU9482.
I'm guessing you don't agree with this. (And, trust me, you seem to know better!)
Unfortunately i dont have a diagram as to its fitted location.
Note: This is NOT the MAP (manifold atmospheric pressure sensor).
Its either: disconnected, open or short circuited, or other fault. "
Just been told by a garage that 13 flashes *is* the SMP Manifold [something].
Part ADU9482.
I'm guessing you don't agree with this. (And, trust me, you seem to know better!)
Hmmm...well i got my own Autodat manuals, and at some £70 for 4, they should bloody well be right! 
Map stands for Manifold Absolute Pressure.
Accoring to the manual you have one of those, but the code would be 3.
Code 13 is deffo atmospheric air sensor......
Id suggest a second opinion mate, they may be right and my manual wrong, but i cant really see it.
Map stands for Manifold Absolute Pressure.
Accoring to the manual you have one of those, but the code would be 3.
Code 13 is deffo atmospheric air sensor......
Id suggest a second opinion mate, they may be right and my manual wrong, but i cant really see it.
deltaf said:
Hmmm...well i got my own Autodat manuals, and at some £70 for 4, they should bloody well be right!
Thanks deltaf. With the aid of your info and a photo from the MG forum I was able to get a sensor from the scrapper (£5 - (£175 new)) and fit it all within about 30 mins.
Wiggled the wires to be sure and reset the ECU. All is now well.
It's interesting to note that of the two dealerships i contacted one misdiagnosed the fault from the fault code. [1] Of two anomynous web sources both were bang on.
Many, many thanks!
[1] In contrast Lindfield rover were excellent - they have helped me at no cost three time now. - Any biz I can put their way I do.
For the benifit of others the fault codes are:
Honda ECU error codes
1 Oxygen Sensor "A" (Primary)
defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
2 Oxygen Sensor "B"
defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
3 MAP Sensor (Manifold Absolute Pressure)
defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
4 CKP Sensor (Crankshaft Position Sensor)
defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
5 MAP Sensor (Manifold Absolute Pressure)
mechanical problem / disconnected piping
6 ECT Sensor (Engine Coolant Temperature)
defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
7 TP Sensor (Throttle Position)
defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
8 TDC Sensor (Top Dead Center)
defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
9 CYP Sensor (Cylinder)
defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
10 IAT Sensor (Intake Air Temperature)
defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
12 EGR Lift Sensor (Exhaust Gas Recirculation)
defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
13 BARO Sensor (Atmospheric Pressure)
defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
14 IAC Valve (Idle Air Control)
defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
15 Ignition Output Signal
missing or defective ignition output signal
16 Fuel Injector System
defective circuit or unplugged / defective fuel injector
17 VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor)
defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
19 Automatic Transmission Lock Up Control Solenoid Valve
defective circuit or unplugged / defective solenoid valve
20 Electrical Load Detector
defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
>> Edited by toad_oftoadhall on Friday 28th November 09:23
toad_oftoadhall said:
STOP PRESS: A third rover dealer I called last night to confirm Deltaf’s diagnosis has just reported back!
Apparently 13 flashes from the Fault Diagnosis LED is an interior courtesy light fault!!!
Dealers...
;-)
You wouldn't need any courtesy lights from that many LED flashes, LOL!
I second your "dealers..
", Buffalo said:
You wouldn't need any courtesy lights from that many LED flashes, LOL!
I miss it now it's stopped. My rover in the dark with error lights all over the place was like a scene from hunt for red october!
Highly amusing. One dealer:
Dealer: "BARO sensor: Poor starting at high altitue; are you suffering from that?"
Me: "Not in West Sussex, no!"
Incredible that you can trust random web info more than dealership info.
>> Edited by toad_oftoadhall on Friday 28th November 16:16
It certainly isnt!...lol Dealers are in the main....er useless.
Very few actually have mechanics that can be trusted, and i mean *trusted* to get it right.
Most mechanics have shunted between one dealer and another so getting a cross section of models under their (usually) ample belts..
I can count myself amongst them (
) however without the belt..
Consequently they dont get the year on year training and familiarity with a manufacturers range hence the "knowledge" gaps... leading yours and others considerable frustrations and lack of faith in them .
Glad you got it sorted anyway mate.
Very few actually have mechanics that can be trusted, and i mean *trusted* to get it right.
Most mechanics have shunted between one dealer and another so getting a cross section of models under their (usually) ample belts..
I can count myself amongst them (
) however without the belt.. Consequently they dont get the year on year training and familiarity with a manufacturers range hence the "knowledge" gaps...
leading yours and others considerable frustrations and lack of faith in them . Glad you got it sorted anyway mate.
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