Tuesday 5th August 2003

Snake Oils and Damp Rags

Another magic device claims to improve fuel efficiency by 20%...

---

[grahambell]

Sounds basically similar in principle to water injection - which has been around for ages.

Can't see it having any more impact than that or any of those other gizmos.

[_Al_]

It just provides cooler denser air.

Water spray/intercooler would do it much better I should imagine.

[bsdnazz]

As Al says, it's a basic intercooler.

[deltaf]

Better to make your own intercooler like i have......


Heck of a lot more efficient than any wet cloth idea.....

[Apache]

does that restrict airflow at all, is it just filled with water, how does it work, can one be fitted to my Griff, want one, don't know why but want one

[johnnystorm]

Unless you have a Turbo-Griff Apache an Intercooler won't be much use! If you have got a turbo-griff then you need your head testing!

[ultimasimon]

deltaf - that IS a work of art. How much boost are you running in order to need an intercooler the size of a paving slab? !

Is there any air flow left for the radiator?

[deltaf]

ultimasimon said:

deltaf - that IS a work of art. How much boost are you running in order to need an intercooler the size of a paving slab? ! Is there any air flow left for the radiator?

lol enough for a future 450 bhp......
Just gonna take it easy until i get the new turbo from turbo technics......

[Mark.S]

Apache said:

does that restrict airflow at all, is it just filled with water, how does it work, can one be fitted to my Griff, want one, don't know why but want one

Use the money for the mapped ignition MA suggested instead

Mark - who had the sick Chimaera at Power Engineering on tuesday

[Buffalo]

DeltaF - in the words of the Corrs, that intercooler is beauuuutiful!



Do you have your own machining facilities??

[deltaf]

Nope mate, all hand crafted.....
The bends on the end tanks were done using nothing more sophisticated than 3 peices of angle clamped in a vice.
Didnt want to entrust the end tank fabrication to anyone else as i wanted the best possible in/out flow at the pipe entry/exits,(next time youre at Demon tweeks, have a look at some of theirs...attrocious! ) and it would have meant letting someone else take the bumper off....didnt wanna do that.(fussy)..lol

[Apache]

johnnystorm said:

Unless you have a Turbo-Griff Apache an Intercooler won't be much use! If you have got a turbo-griff then you need your head testing!

mmmn, but if you cooled the charge on a naturally aspirated injun (as per the topic of this thread) would you not see the benefit as well

[Apache]

Mark.S said:

Apache said: does that restrict airflow at all, is it just filled with water, how does it work, can one be fitted to my Griff, want one, don't know why but want one Use the money for the mapped ignition MA suggested instead Mark - who had the sick Chimaera at Power Engineering on tuesday

hi mate, what was the outcome of the errant bolt then?

(waiting for an email from MA regarding ignition )

[Mark.S]

Car left at Power Engineering so they can check for any damage and replace the wandering bolt. Hopefully pick up the car after a session on the rollers with MA next week.

[Bob the Planner]

Apache said:

[mmmn, but if you cooled the charge on a naturally aspirated injun (as per the topic of this thread) would you not see the benefit as well

Probably not much as you would not be compressing it and hence heating it. The 'damp air' principle is just the poor mans water injection. A heating element in the 'jam jar' to boil the water may improve things quite a bit but the effect would be negated by heating the air. Mmmm maybe an intercooler then - bugger just dropped all the water from out of the air and caused the engine to flood.

Don't see it as much of an improvement myself

Bob

[kstead]

I'v seen a pic of a pickup in usa that has an intercooler the size of the bed. They then put about a ton of ice around it. The purpose was to break a speed record for a nat asp engine on the salt flats, I think they did it to. With out these mesures I dont think you'd see any difference on a naturaly aspirated engine cos the air your tryin to cool it with is the same temp?If you know what I mean? Better to make sure your ducting air from a cool place (and I dont mean chelsea or soho) front of the car for instance. nos has the same effect.
Edited to say: would you lose power if you rigged an intercooler to an a/c system? just an idea but im to dim to do the sums/see the bleedin obvious.

>> Edited by kstead on Thursday 7th August 00:00


Doh. just seen the post about intercoolers.

>> Edited by kstead on Thursday 7th August 00:11

[Grant B]

Hi Graham Bell & Al......
Re the ECO-Fuel device, you are both correct as per the descrption page. The device is basically a water injection device, but requires NO serious invasive engineering to an engine - easy to fit in about 30 minutes & actually works - as the title descrption page says, it creates a misty morning environment for the engine to breathe all the time.
Most importantly it will be CHEAP.
Some time soon, a demonstration will be made public in the national press & possibly on TV. Hopefully soon after, these units will be made available.
It is not new technology as one of you mentioned, but a new, simple & innovative way of applying an old technology/concept.

The primary aim being to save our hard earned cash & to not give so much of it to our greedy government with every gallon of fuel purchased.
The secondary advantage from the device is a modest boost in engine power - more cheaply than re chipping your engine or getting an intercooler fitted - but not knocking those two options in any way.

This effiency increase can be traded off for economy or power dependant up on how heavy your right foot is.

Admittedly, because there have been so many rip-off gizmo's that achieved bugger all, I'm not at all suprised at you guys being a little sceptical.

Not all engines will give a good result using this device. Small petrol engines have proven to be hopeless with the device.
1600 cc's + with a turbo start to get interesting. The best results most noticeable from truck diesel turbos & 2.5 litre or bigger 4x4's as any increase in power / economy from these machines is immediately noticeable.

As to how it works - that is between us & the Patent Office for now, however it is not MAGIC & uses no Snake Oil.
Next time you're out in the country side on a late summers evening, & the air is damp, you may well notice an increase of engine power when you're "Green-Laneing".

In the near future I will post the venue & dates that the device will be made public.

Thanks for your comments -I will keep you up to date.
GB

gb @ elektrikery . freeserve . co . uk

[deltaf]

Get Rolls Royce, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Volkswagen, Lexus or indeed any of the major manufacturers to endorse it, and you might be in with a chance of selling them. If not, we all know why!

[james]

kstead said:

Better to make sure your ducting air from a cool place (and I dont mean chelsea or soho) front of the car for instance.

That's the problem with the Griff. It takes nice cool air from the front of the engine, then runs it down the side of the cramped engine compartment, right past the cat and beside the manifold. By the time it gets to the engine, it's probably hot enough to strip paint . About the best thing to do is to cut a holr in the bonnet right above air inlet to the plenum chamber. But then you'd ruin the look of the car .

James

[Fatboy]

james said:

kstead said: Better to make sure your ducting air from a cool place (and I dont mean chelsea or soho) front of the car for instance. That's the problem with the Griff. It takes nice cool air from the front of the engine, then runs it down the side of the cramped engine compartment, right past the cat and beside the manifold. By the time it gets to the engine, it's probably hot enough to strip paint . About the best thing to do is to cut a holr in the bonnet right above air inlet to the plenum chamber. But then you'd ruin the look of the car . James

Demon Tweeks sell heat reflective ducting - that should reduce your intake charge a fair bit?