(ahem) Diesels - when did they start getting good?
Discussion
Going to be doing a bit more mileage with house move, so thinking about a diesel for next family car; I'm told the current VWs drive nicely, don't sound like trucks and do 50+ mpg which appeals to my sensible side. So question is
- when did they start getting good, is it just the latest TDIs?
- any other manufacturers make a decent diesel.. BMW? The latest Ford?
Ta for all thoughts
AdrianR
- when did they start getting good, is it just the latest TDIs?
- any other manufacturers make a decent diesel.. BMW? The latest Ford?
Ta for all thoughts
AdrianR
French diesels are pretty good. I had a '98 peugeot that was fine, did 45mpg and didn't 'clatter' too badly.
Pretty much any diesel from the last 3 years will be acceptable (well except for the older ford ones), but then most of them will be either french or VAG.
What size car, and what price?
Sparks
Pretty much any diesel from the last 3 years will be acceptable (well except for the older ford ones), but then most of them will be either french or VAG.
What size car, and what price?
Sparks
Sparks - 4 doors, either biggish hatchback (Golf, Leon?) or smallish estate (Audi A4 Avant, BMW 3 series touring?) Haven't decided how much to spend; part of me says cheap so I don't worry about piling on the miles, other part says you're gonna spend a lot of time in it so buy something nice and enjoy it.
Whatever I want aircon and it to be quiet at speed so I can listen to voice radio on the motorway.
AdrianR
Whatever I want aircon and it to be quiet at speed so I can listen to voice radio on the motorway.
AdrianR
I'd agree with the comments about the Ford TDCi.
I drove a friends Mundaneo with the 6 speed 'box to Le Mans this year, and while it's a great car, very quick, and lot more frugal than all the V8's I was with, the power delivery in the lower gears is a bit iffy.
I must have stalled it about 10 times on the first day I drove it.
Trying to pull away quickly results in either a stall or lots of wheel spin.
I can clearly see the advances made in diesels, certainly in terms of refinement, but it would appear that these new quick diesels are getting their power from big turbos that drop the power in quite abruptly.
The Mundaneo suffered from a huge amount of torque steer.
Which was quite fun at first.
>> Edited by chrisj on Wednesday 30th July 15:29
I drove a friends Mundaneo with the 6 speed 'box to Le Mans this year, and while it's a great car, very quick, and lot more frugal than all the V8's I was with, the power delivery in the lower gears is a bit iffy.
I must have stalled it about 10 times on the first day I drove it.
Trying to pull away quickly results in either a stall or lots of wheel spin.
I can clearly see the advances made in diesels, certainly in terms of refinement, but it would appear that these new quick diesels are getting their power from big turbos that drop the power in quite abruptly.
The Mundaneo suffered from a huge amount of torque steer.
Which was quite fun at first.
>> Edited by chrisj on Wednesday 30th July 15:29
adrianr said:
4 doors, either biggish hatchback (Golf, Leon?) or smallish estate (Audi A4 Avant, BMW 3 series touring?)
I'm looking at the Skoda Octavia at the moment. VAG drivetrains and a huge boot for a hatchback.
You could also look at the Fiat/Alfa types. Their oil burners are supposed to be quite good too, although I can't corroborate this from personal experience.
adrianr said:
Haven't decided how much to spend; part of me says cheap so I don't worry about piling on the miles, other part says you're gonna spend a lot of time in it so buy something nice and enjoy it.
Oh how well do I know that conundrum. My head says a nice 1.9TDi at a couple of years old will be frugal and will have already depreciated. My heart says I want the vRS with the (easily chippable) 180bhp 1.8T.
Things could be worse though, it's giving me something to do on my weekends looking at the alternatives.
The new common rail stuff can be very good.
Avoid ford though the system uses 2 ecus and can be problematic.
Renault, peugeot and VW all have good setups, the clio 80bhp is supposedly capable of over 70mpg and the production golf gti diesel has apparently seen 170bhp (even though they're rated at 150bhp.)
Avoid ford though the system uses 2 ecus and can be problematic.
Renault, peugeot and VW all have good setups, the clio 80bhp is supposedly capable of over 70mpg and the production golf gti diesel has apparently seen 170bhp (even though they're rated at 150bhp.)
The French got good at turbo d's in the late 90's (306dTurbo and the like) and about the same time Audi and Beemer had there 2.5ish litre exec diesels.
Next real move was the common rail, but even the difference between a two year old common rail and a new one is huge. Take the old/new merc C-class for instance. Old diesel was so much more rattly and smokey compared to the newest one.
Never liked diesels until the 306 came along. That was the first one I actually thought I would really like to own. Quick and puchy but cheap aswell
Next real move was the common rail, but even the difference between a two year old common rail and a new one is huge. Take the old/new merc C-class for instance. Old diesel was so much more rattly and smokey compared to the newest one.
Never liked diesels until the 306 came along. That was the first one I actually thought I would really like to own. Quick and puchy but cheap aswell
I forgot about the alfa 156 sportwagen. The 2.4 JTD is supposed to be very good. Not as frugal as the french/vag ones, and I have had very bad experience with fiat(alfa) dealers, but your local may be OK.
Another option is a saab 9-3. Doesn't handle, is a bit quirky, but the boot is huge, they are very comfortable, well spec'ed and start at around 7-8K
As a bonus my local dealer is very good, and I am seriously considering one as a 'family' car.
Sparks
Another option is a saab 9-3. Doesn't handle, is a bit quirky, but the boot is huge, they are very comfortable, well spec'ed and start at around 7-8K
As a bonus my local dealer is very good, and I am seriously considering one as a 'family' car.
Sparks
Oddly enough, that did occur to me yesterday aftrenoon, rapidly followed by:
- do any manufacturers do one 'off the shelf' yet?
- can you still get subsidies for fitting to new or nearly new cars?
- is it true that getting insurance can be tricky?
- can you DIY it, otherwise where do you find a reputable installer,
...and...
Anyone tried fitting it to any TVRs?
But I haven't had time to do any research yet.
AdrianR
- do any manufacturers do one 'off the shelf' yet?
- can you still get subsidies for fitting to new or nearly new cars?
- is it true that getting insurance can be tricky?
- can you DIY it, otherwise where do you find a reputable installer,
...and...
Anyone tried fitting it to any TVRs?
But I haven't had time to do any research yet.
AdrianR
agent006 said:It's a straight 6, not V6. Bought a 330d Sports Touring for a tow car and love it to bits - plenty of power and all the toys.
The BMW 3 litre V6 diesel is fantastic. Quiet when it needs to be, and makes a nice noise when it should. More suited to everyday driving than the 3 litre petrol.
The big jump for diesels was around the time of common rail, or PD as VW prefer (Pumpe Duse) - basically having far higher injection pressures. Thought it has some slight lag, the surge of torque at any revs just makes it a satisfying drive in a different way.
danny
dannylt said:
Bought a 330d Sports Touring for a tow car and love it to bits - plenty of power and all the toys.
I've got the equivalent Mercedes engine - in an E320 CDi. I also use it to tow and love it to bits - fantastic engine for all occasions but especially on the motorway.
Theres a double page section in this weeks Autocar on the difference between VW's PD and common rail.
I would go for a VW Golf GT TDI 130.
VW PD is basically a pump per cylinder (like a marine diesel engine) and not common rail.
Common rail is more flexible, with multiple injections per stroke possible, hence they can be made very quiet.
I have a Mundaneo - nice car, handles very well (with decent tyres) and get 40mpg giving it big lash everywhere. Never noticed any trouble with a long first, hits the limiter at about 20mph!
Best diesel I have driven is the Alfa 156 150bhp, which is chippable and even in standard form feels excellent, very powerful, revs, sounds good! and is reasonably economical. It has more torque than the GTA. Well built too.
And now they are releasing a 175bhp version of the 2.4 JTD common rail engine - should be a stormer!
Go on, you know you want to!
Common rail is more flexible, with multiple injections per stroke possible, hence they can be made very quiet.
I have a Mundaneo - nice car, handles very well (with decent tyres) and get 40mpg giving it big lash everywhere. Never noticed any trouble with a long first, hits the limiter at about 20mph!
Best diesel I have driven is the Alfa 156 150bhp, which is chippable and even in standard form feels excellent, very powerful, revs, sounds good! and is reasonably economical. It has more torque than the GTA. Well built too.
And now they are releasing a 175bhp version of the 2.4 JTD common rail engine - should be a stormer!
Go on, you know you want to!
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