RE: The End of the Cam?
Friday 11th July 2003
The End of the Cam?
Lotus on the case with electro-hydraulic valve actuation system
Discussion
My old man works for Cummins and he has been talking about this for awhile. I think it will go a bit more advanced than super chips.
Things like being able to alter valve opening times and distances on the fly, closing off cylinders at will to prevent damage etc.
The tinkering potential is enourmaous but the knowledge to do it correctly is going to be the key
Things like being able to alter valve opening times and distances on the fly, closing off cylinders at will to prevent damage etc.
The tinkering potential is enourmaous but the knowledge to do it correctly is going to be the key
>I believe all F1 teams use a derivative of this technology
As far as im aware, f1 use cams, but use pneumatics instead of springs on the valves. Theres some stuff on it on the net somewhere.
a bit of a google reveals:
Well, if you've ever seen a normal valve mechanism in an engine, you may have noticed that there is a spring which usually forces the valve closed. This is known as the valve spring. A pneumatic valve mechanism replaces this spring with an ultra-pressurized column of air which forces the valve closed
As far as im aware, f1 use cams, but use pneumatics instead of springs on the valves. Theres some stuff on it on the net somewhere.
a bit of a google reveals:
Well, if you've ever seen a normal valve mechanism in an engine, you may have noticed that there is a spring which usually forces the valve closed. This is known as the valve spring. A pneumatic valve mechanism replaces this spring with an ultra-pressurized column of air which forces the valve closed
Lotus has, I believe, been working on this for some time. It essentially uses computer controlled solenoids to open and close each individual valve. This allows infinite variation, opening, duration, closing, lift, rate, all that good stuff that is cam grinders black magic.
This will be controlled by the ECU, so tuning is a definate possibility, but you'll want someone who knows WTF they are doing, or it'll all go to bits. The possibilities are mind boggling, a Lotus with great bottom end torque, screaming top end (with a waaaay higher redline than we see now), meets all emissions, good economy, and a way to tune it to give the snap, crackle, pop on the overrun! Fantastic... I want it.
F1 uses cams like a regular car, but uses pressurized Nitrogen to force the valves shut, this replaces the valve springs, reducing valve bounce, which is what allows them to run ~19,000 RPM.
This will be controlled by the ECU, so tuning is a definate possibility, but you'll want someone who knows WTF they are doing, or it'll all go to bits. The possibilities are mind boggling, a Lotus with great bottom end torque, screaming top end (with a waaaay higher redline than we see now), meets all emissions, good economy, and a way to tune it to give the snap, crackle, pop on the overrun! Fantastic... I want it.
F1 uses cams like a regular car, but uses pressurized Nitrogen to force the valves shut, this replaces the valve springs, reducing valve bounce, which is what allows them to run ~19,000 RPM.
Two years ago, there were no camless engines. But now yes there are. Renault,??? Please correct me if I am wrong, insider info needed.
read more ??? on a production based example
www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0910|
read more ??? on a production based example
www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0910|
jv_as said:
Two years ago, there were no camless engines. But now yes there are. Renault,??? Please correct me if I am wrong, insider info needed.
read more ??? on a production based example
www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0910|
I'd take that with a big pinch of salt -all it says is that they have an engine that runs -the challenge is to get it running at a high enough speed for use in a car.
MAN B&W ME series is a mass produced (Diesel) ship engines with electrohydralically actuated valves on -but these only run at up to ~250rpm I think.
Theres a pile of technical stuff on it Here if thats your thing.
Pete
jv_as said:
Sorry I forgot to say that I meant Renault team in F1.
I heard that a while ago aswell (when they first intoduced the 111degree V i think?), however, a very reliable source informs me that they are not (and, if they can make it work in an F1 engine at nearly 20Krpm then a car engine would be easy anyway).
jv_as said:
That info link is fantastic, thankyou, will look at it when I come back to work on monday. If you have any more info I would be most grateful. This is an area I am really interested in finding out more. I currently have no real knowledge about it.
I take it you are reffering to the link I posted. Nothing else jumps to mind at the moment -I only know of that one because I was at the B & W Diesel engine museum in Copenhagen last week when I was on holiday! -I still havent read all that stuff I linked to yet
It is however something I am also very interested in, so I'll have a rake and see what else I've got as I'm sure I'll have somethingelse somewhere.
I also need to have a look for any history books etc on B & W engines as they have come up with some very nice concepts in the past -which apparently are no longer in production as they were to complicated (I think they may have been ahead of there time, not sure yet though). I think there could possibilities in automotive engines in future.
Cheers,
Pete
>> Edited by pistol pete on Saturday 12th July 19:58
Captain Muppet said:
I still get the feeling sticking with the conventional poppet valve is the wrong way to be going.
The alternatives please?
How about having doughnut shaped valves with the inlet valve being the largest around the outside of the cylinder and the exhaust value being an inner doughnut around the spark plug?
Ian A.
Captain Muppet said:
I still get the feeling sticking with the conventional poppet valve is the wrong way to be going.
The alternatives please?
I heard that the RAF were looking into 32 cylinder H configuration engines with 'helical' valves at the same time as Jet engines were starting to become useful.
As soon as they realised the true potential of jets they shelved it, but it was meant to be pretty nifty. I'd like to find out more about those...
Seek out a copy of 'The Power To Fly' by LJK Setright. In there, he documents in loving detail the development of aviation engines (which effectively comprises the most advanced development of the internal combusion engine until the 1970s) up until turbines replaced pistons.
>> Edited by manek on Monday 14th July 14:56
>> Edited by manek on Monday 14th July 14:56
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