Front engine in the back...
Discussion
After looking at spining the engine 90 degrees and finding a transaxle I realised it was too much like hard work. So I thought to myslef "What if I just stuck it in the boot?".
So I've scrapped my design completely and decided on a mid-engine layout.
The engine is FWD at the moment, so I can just move the unit to the back, but obviously I will have plumbing to sort out too, and most likely a lot of other things too. I'm going to try and use as much of the car as I can and just fabricate things like the suspension, chassis and body parts.
Is there anything that I need to keep in mind when doing this? Anything at all that may seem the most obvious thing in the world, but I probably haven't thought of?
So I've scrapped my design completely and decided on a mid-engine layout.
The engine is FWD at the moment, so I can just move the unit to the back, but obviously I will have plumbing to sort out too, and most likely a lot of other things too. I'm going to try and use as much of the car as I can and just fabricate things like the suspension, chassis and body parts.
Is there anything that I need to keep in mind when doing this? Anything at all that may seem the most obvious thing in the world, but I probably haven't thought of?
How's this thing going to handle? A normal fwd layout has a lot of weight behind the axle, and if you just move this back the overhung rear engine will put the CoG an awfully long way back. Any more than 60:40 is likely to be too much from the handling point of view. Also remember you'll need to move the driver forwards so there will be less seat of the pants feedback from the rear wheels. Oh, and cooling will be harder. And you'll need a remote gear linkage :spit:. Are you going to have a removable body, or some other means of accessing the engine? Otherwise a rear engine layout looks like a right pita in terms of engine / gearbox access.
as does lotus with the elise! 
its is difficult but deffinalty not imposable! trhere are lots of kit cars that are mid engined using FWD engines and drvive train! also i have even seen a mid engines Chinqucento (spell lol) with a cossy lump in there! lol
go on give it a go! lol
Chris.
its is difficult but deffinalty not imposable! trhere are lots of kit cars that are mid engined using FWD engines and drvive train! also i have even seen a mid engines Chinqucento (spell lol) with a cossy lump in there! lol
go on give it a go! lol
Chris.
mtv dave said:
After looking at spining the engine 90 degrees and finding a transaxle I realised it was too much like hard work. So I thought to myslef "What if I just stuck it in the boot?".
So I've scrapped my design completely and decided on a mid-engine layout.
The engine is FWD at the moment, so I can just move the unit to the back, but obviously I will have plumbing to sort out too, and most likely a lot of other things too. I'm going to try and use as much of the car as I can and just fabricate things like the suspension, chassis and body parts.
Is there anything that I need to keep in mind when doing this? Anything at all that may seem the most obvious thing in the world, but I probably haven't thought of?
So I've scrapped my design completely and decided on a mid-engine layout.
The engine is FWD at the moment, so I can just move the unit to the back, but obviously I will have plumbing to sort out too, and most likely a lot of other things too. I'm going to try and use as much of the car as I can and just fabricate things like the suspension, chassis and body parts.
Is there anything that I need to keep in mind when doing this? Anything at all that may seem the most obvious thing in the world, but I probably haven't thought of?
How about keeping the 'rear' wheel steering operable too, just for a larf?
My kit car "FWD in the back".
No real problems.
The best advice is don't try and 'bodge/make do'. Locking up a steering rack for the back is not the same as having a proper rear suspension setup, for instance.
The biggest problem is the gear linkage. Selecting a vehicle that is cable change will simplify matters immensely.
Don't try and be clever and have the radiator in the back. If Ultima/Lambo etc couldn't get it to work, neither will you.
No real problems.
The best advice is don't try and 'bodge/make do'. Locking up a steering rack for the back is not the same as having a proper rear suspension setup, for instance.
The biggest problem is the gear linkage. Selecting a vehicle that is cable change will simplify matters immensely.
Don't try and be clever and have the radiator in the back. If Ultima/Lambo etc couldn't get it to work, neither will you.
The suspension is wishbones all round with coilovers. I've pretty much got the design, mounting and load spreading of them sorted. So no fear of the rear suspension being built from part of the locked steering rack 
Engine is a Mitsubishi 2l V6 from my FTO (along with most of the rest of it) - all alloy block and heads and a nice meaty noise.
The gearbox control linkage is going to be a bit of a problem I think. At the moment I have a fairly poor Porche licensed tiptronic system, which is electronically controlled for the semi-manual mode (good), but it's main selector is a rod (bad). The front of the 'box if fairly clear of obstructions, so I have my finger's crossed it'll be fine. I'm going to get a manual 'box and pedels in the new year, which I think will be ok, but it's still controlled by a rod rather than cable (I think). So I'll be spending a lot of time on trying to get that feel right.
I'm thinking of keeping the exhaust manifold and making up a tuned length back pipe. Still looking into the SVA regs about emissions and noise for an amature built car to see if I need to fit the cat' and baffles in there - that's a packaging nightmare if I do.
I was going to keep the rad from the FTO and keep it in the front - I was thinking of using two of the chassis tubes to act as water pipes, but I've decided to just have two unstressed tubes instead.
The body design is (will be) based around the FTO windscreen, but I've not gone much beyond the mounting into the chassis.
Quite looking forward to failing miserably, but having fun along the way
Engine is a Mitsubishi 2l V6 from my FTO (along with most of the rest of it) - all alloy block and heads and a nice meaty noise.
The gearbox control linkage is going to be a bit of a problem I think. At the moment I have a fairly poor Porche licensed tiptronic system, which is electronically controlled for the semi-manual mode (good), but it's main selector is a rod (bad). The front of the 'box if fairly clear of obstructions, so I have my finger's crossed it'll be fine. I'm going to get a manual 'box and pedels in the new year, which I think will be ok, but it's still controlled by a rod rather than cable (I think). So I'll be spending a lot of time on trying to get that feel right.
I'm thinking of keeping the exhaust manifold and making up a tuned length back pipe. Still looking into the SVA regs about emissions and noise for an amature built car to see if I need to fit the cat' and baffles in there - that's a packaging nightmare if I do.
I was going to keep the rad from the FTO and keep it in the front - I was thinking of using two of the chassis tubes to act as water pipes, but I've decided to just have two unstressed tubes instead.
The body design is (will be) based around the FTO windscreen, but I've not gone much beyond the mounting into the chassis.
Quite looking forward to failing miserably, but having fun along the way
Fiat X1/9 1300 was mid engined based on a Fiat 128 whole engine, box, suspension etc. Basically everything that sat up front (bar radiator) on the 128 was stuck (still facing forward) in the back, and as the engine was in front of the box/axle it made the X1/9 mid engined. I think the 1500 models dod exactly the same trick with a strada engine/transmission/suspension. IIRC (since I rebuilt 1 from 2 write-offs, but that was over 20 years ago) even the steering arms on the hub carriers were retained to give adjustable toe-in on the rear. Sticking a FWD setup behind the driver has always seemed a pretty straightforward way of getting a mid-engined car to me.
My GTM Libra uses a FWD engine setup in the back. My website may be of interest to you since it holds a lot of pictures how the FWD engine is integrated in the car. I use an Audi engine, something that has never been done before. Main nightmare was the gearchange. I changed the gearchange to cables (pretty easily) and have the cables wrapped 180 degrees around the engine. It took a little trouble to mirror the gear change pattern, but in the end I found a neat and simple solution for that too.
My website can be found at www.gtmlibra.nl
The text on the site is in Dutch (Sorry!), but the pictures will tell the story. Just click "verslag" (Dutch for build report) on the top of the main page.
Bye,
Bertram
My website can be found at www.gtmlibra.nl
The text on the site is in Dutch (Sorry!), but the pictures will tell the story. Just click "verslag" (Dutch for build report) on the top of the main page.
Bye,
Bertram
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